Mets

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by Cod

What y'all are saying makes sense, so I'm interested to see how it plays out. However, that news being followed by the Diaz contract has me more baffled. At that price, if he appears 60-times (his average during good to great seasons), he'll make ~$33k per appearance. Also, has any deal that long and that much for a relief pitcher ever "worked out"? The only one I can find recently is Raisel Iglesias, who was traded less than a year into his 4-yr/$58M deal. Emmanuel Clase signed a 5-yr/$20M deal which is probably going to be a steal for the Guardians.

All that is a long winded way of saying, "Is Steve just throwing money at the team and assuming they'll win for years to come?"

It's a lot of money for somebody who has been kinda terrible for long stretches, notwithstanding we hope last year was his new normal. I will offer my usual justification with the Mets... at least they didn't throw more money at someone worse for the same job :/

The Vogelbach thing is concerning because he takes up a roster spot and can't really even pretend in the field. They wasted too many roster spots on platoon players (ESPECIALLY A DH PLATOON!!!) last year. But for $1.5M, he's not so expensive that they'll be reluctant to dump him if he's terrible. But they're not going to just throw gold bars at every position, or pay $500 squijillion dollars in luxury tax. So given the sheer number of spots to fill they need some filler. I guess I'd rather use a roster spot on immobile lefty that can hit a homer sometimes than Herb Washington Jr.

[Amazin69]

Well, things appear to have gone quiet on this thread, so I'll just ask if anyone wants to take one final run at naming the Mets' opening day 2011 LF and #2 hitter? I mean, if you got Brad Emaus, this should be a walk in the park.

Or, if not, I can fold the tent and do the reveal. Your choice.

[Cod]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Well, things appear to have gone quiet on this thread, so I'll just ask if anyone wants to take one final run at naming the Mets' opening day 2011 LF and #2 hitter? I mean, if you got Brad Emaus, this should be a walk in the park.

Or, if not, I can fold the tent and do the reveal. Your choice.

I only got Emaus because you gave me a puzzle that lead to my high school in the middle of the sticks lol. I went quiet because I finally had to look up the answer and don't want to ruin the fun for people still trying. I tip my cap to anyone that can correctly guess who the LF was because I would've never gotten it.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Well, things appear to have gone quiet on this thread, so I'll just ask if anyone wants to take one final run at naming the Mets' opening day 2011 LF and #2 hitter? I mean, if you got Brad Emaus, this should be a walk in the park.

Or, if not, I can fold the tent and do the reveal. Your choice.

Was this man a National for a few years during the late 2000s while they were still removing the stink of Montreal from their franchise?
And did he also not play a season in Atlanta in the mid-2000s?

I am pretty sure I know the answer, I forgot he had a season with the Mets.

I will let Mets fans try and answer if my hints can make any memories come forward.

[Amazin69]

Yes, you're on the trail! Three AL teams (one of which won a WS), then switching over to the NL East, with the Mets his third stop of the three. Pts for not thinking of the guy who hit for the cycle later that season and shared the utility job.

Name 'im when you want 'im…

[rudel.dietrich]

This would be Willie Harris

I very briefly recall him on the Braves. He is from the Atlanta area and it was something of a homecoming for him but he was pretty mediocre.

I remember him more as a National than anything. He played three full seasons in Washington when I lived there and went to a lot of games. That would be the high water mark of his career. He was the definition of average for those three years. But those were lean years in Washington and we were still getting the franchise back in order after a decade of neglect in Montreal.

He played every day and did well for some not-great teams.

I don't remember him at all as a Met, to be honest. Brief memories as a Brave. Many memories of bad Nationals teams and that is it.

[Amazin69]

Ding!

Yes, Willie Harris, indeed. (I'm actually surprised nobody tried the Scott Hairston guess. I remembered him because of the cycle, but not Willie.). Nothing spectacular, but solid work for the season.

2001 Baltimore-cameo debut

2002-2005 ChiSox-Willie actually was sent to the minors in August '05, but came back on August 30th and played throughout September. He didn't take part in the postseason, albeit he must have been eligible, just left off of the roster. So I don't know if he actually has a ring, but IMO he should.

2006-BoSox
2007-Braves
2008-2010-Nationals
2011-Mets
and then a brief final flop in Cincy.

Hardly an all-timer but he qualified for the HoF ballot. (Presumably didn't get a single vote, but still an achievement.)

[eriqjaffe]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

2002-2005 ChiSox-Willie actually was sent to the minors in August '05, but came back on August 30th and played throughout September. He didn't take part in the postseason, albeit he must have been eligible, just left off of the roster.

Willie absolutely was on the post-season roster in 2005, although he only appeared in 3 of the 11 games the White Sox played. He went 2 for 2 with a pair of pinch-hit singles and an RBI, and appeared as a pinch runner and stole a base in Game 3 of the World Series.

The biggest of his two singles came in Game 4 of the World Series, as he came around to score the only run of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCc4-1OrMAE

[Amazin69]

Yup, he scored the run that literally won the title. I guess I somehow missed that "Post-season stats" line on his page.

Apologies, Willie! #1 in your program, #1 in the Southsiders' hearts! (I'd assume. It's not as if championships are in vast supply down by the Dan Ryan Expressway, after all.)

[Déjà Bru]

Showalter now has four Manager of the Year Awards (with four different teams!). This ties him with Tony LaRussa and Bobby Cox for the most Manager of the Year Awards in history.

The award only goes back to 1983, though, so many fine bygone managers may have given these guys a run for their money.

[Westheim]

Casey Stengel probably would have about TEN of those. A bunch for his Yankee times. And at least one or two for the utter restraint of not beating at least the odd Jim Piersall's head in during the Mets' trying early years.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Showalter now has four Manager of the Year Awards (with four different teams!). This ties him with Tony LaRussa and Bobby Cox for the most Manager of the Year Awards in history.

The award only goes back to 1983, though, so many fine bygone managers may have given these guys a run for their money.

Interesting that they give awards to managers whose teams blow enormous leads. I would have thought the goal was rather different. It's Manager of the Year, not Manager of May.

Oh, and a notable difference is that Cox and LaRussa have won the Series, whereas Buck has a career postseason record of 10-16, losing 5 of 6 postseason series (and a WC game) and never even making it to the final round. Congratulations on consistently turning mediocrity into moderate success, I suppose.

tl;dr: Feh. Snitker was robbed.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

tl;dr: Feh. Snitker was robbed.

Now that you mention it,

Under Snitker’s direction, Atlanta, which had won the 2021 World Series, erased what had been a 10.5-game deficit to Showalter’s Mets to win the National League East in the season’s final week.

That was quite a feat, holding that team together, not panicking, and persevering to pull it out in the end. What happened in the postseason is immaterial, but Snitker's regular season does seem to outshine what Showalter achieved.

But then, I believe that I have read that MOTY awards factor in expected wins based on the strength of team rosters; perhaps the BBWA committee felt that Snitker underachieved most of the year and Showalter overachieved based on what was expected of their teams.

Or maybe I am giving the BBWA way too much credit.

[Amazin69]

Speaking of the Mets Sucktacular September (and sequel), I've been meaning to transcribe Gary Cohen's remarks on the final Mets Postgame show, so why don't I do that now? Gotta clear out that DVR, y'know.

After Zeile and Blevins blow smoke up the players' butts with their inane "well, it doesn't matter when you lose, it always hurts" attempt to minimize the Choke, a dose of reality from Gar:

GARY COHEN: You know, the Mets this year won 101 games, the second-most games that the Mets had ever won in a season in their 61-year history. But this was an ignominious end.

For five months, this was maybe the best team in baseball, maybe the second-best team in baseball, you can certainly make that argument. But it was all there for this team. When they got out of that Dodger series on September 1st, they had the easiest schedule (on paper) in the major leagues. And they squandered it.

They squandered it. They just didn't play well in September. But it was still there for them last weekend when they went to Atlanta. All they had to do was win one game.

But their starting pitching (which had been carrying them) let them down, as it did this weekend. Their offense, which had been sporadic for the last month, was sporadic again, and they let it drop.

This year, and the way it has ended up, feels very much like 1988. That year, the Mets (two years removed from the World Series) won 100 games. They had dominated the Dodgers during the regular season (in those days, there were fewer rounds of playoffs), they had beaten the Dodgers 10 out of 11, but they lost a seven game series to the Dodgers and didn't get to the World Series.

Gary goes on to propose that the difference is that 1988 felt like the end of an era for that team (where the core had been together since 1984 and was about to splinter; 1989 was the last season for Gary Carter and Keith Hernandez with the team, plus the whole trading of the CF platoon), but this feels like the start of something, blue skies ahead, yada yada.

And who knows, he could be right. But it's not money until it's in your wallet, so I'm less placated by possibilities than I'm bummed by actual "ignominious end" this year.

Also, I can't quite make the 1988 equivalency, because that team performed during the regular season. They met their challenges, where this team failed those it faced. That was an Upset; this was a Choke. Both are painful, but there are differences.

So I'll file this with 2007, not with a team that was going to be up 3-1 in the LCS before Mike Scioscia hit the second-most inexplicable homer that I've ever seen.

(#1 is the Alex Gordon shot in Game 1 of the 2015 WS, because I was at the park and balls that seemed to be hit much harder were dying in the humidity, not even reaching the track. I'm still agog that it went out, to CF no less.)

In 1988, I was happy until I was shocked. This year, I was pretty damn miserable, as I could see the trainwreck coming.

But thank you, Gary, for being more honest than many a home team announcer could ever dream of being. Adieu.

[Déjà Bru]

Woof. Well, you probably had his best years.

[Amazin69]

But have no fear!

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/mets-...rlander-report

Because why should Uncle Stevie spend his $$$ on the senior member of the team, the last link to the 2015 World Series, a hero who grew up as a Met, when you can throw $40,000,000+ at an aging has-been-to-be? A guy who sat out 2020 and 2021?

This will totally work! Look what a help Max was this year!! Totally didn't get injured in September and blow his last two starts under pressure! I'm sure Verlander is just what we need!!



It's like signing Mo Vaughn one year and saying "Yeah, aging AL All-Stars totally never flop as Mets!" and rushing out to grab Roberto Alomar while letting Edgardo Alfonzo walk.

Except the 2002 Mets made the Vaughn/Alomar mistakes simultaneously, and Fonzie (who actually had a nice 2002) didn't leave until the next year. (When the Mets brought in Tom Glavine, another aging ace who worked so well…). So they were just doubly-stupid, not refusing to learn from their previous mistake, as Eppler has.

Can't wait for the Mets to throw $$$$ at Chris Sale in 2024! Bound to solve everything!

Anyhow, adieu, Jake. Enjoy overpaid irrelevancy in the MetroPlex; whichever Seager is on that team can fill you in.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Woof. Well, you probably had his best years.

(shakes fist at baseball gods)

(starts to bawl aggressively)

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Westheim

(shakes fist at baseball gods)

(starts to bawl aggressively)

Bawl aggressively? Shooting tears like darts? "Here you baseball gods. Take this, and that! Taste my salt!"

[Amazin69]

Fun fact: Jake is actually taking a pay cut to go to Arlington.

While the AAV of his contract is $37,000,000/5 years (a slight bump over the $35.5mn he made each of his two years under the Brodie deal), he's only taking $30 mill next year, to help the Rangers pay out some old salaries first. It's clear, the dollars weren't the issue, it was that Uncle Stevie didn't want to commit to the 5-year deal.

Which makes sense. I mean, Jake is 34 and he's battled injuries the past two seasons.

Far better to commit to Verlander, who'll turn 40 before training camp and already completely missed two seasons!

(Maxwell Martin Scherzer, OTOH, is a sprightly young 38.5 years old, not hitting 39 until just before the Mets trade him away at next season's deadline.)

Genius. Utter genius.

[Déjà Bru]

Here is what one local writer had to say. It doesn't sound like sour grapes.

Letting deGrom go? Smart move

Jacob deGrom got what he wanted: an absurd, fully guaranteed five-year contract worth a ton of money to leave New York. The Mets got what they needed: another team swooping in and signing deGrom to an absurd, fully guaranteed five-year contract worth a ton of money.

Yes, it hurt Mets fans to lose deGrom in this shocking fashion. That’s an understandable emotional reaction to seeing one of the greatest pitchers of this generation (when healthy) leave your team to take his talents to the baseball wasteland known as Arlington, Texas. But the unemotional reaction has to be this: If five years and $185 million is what it would have cost to keep him in Flushing, the Mets are better off without him.

Oh, we don’t mean the deGrom who won the NL Cy Young Award in 2018 and 2019 and pitched like this era’s Sandy Koufax when he was healthy enough to take the mound. DeGrom at his best was truly a sight to behold, carving up the top hitters on the planet as if he were facing a bunch of Little Leaguers. It was breathtaking. That he was a homegrown Met, and an easy guy to root for with his stick-figure frame, mischievous smile and 102-mph fastball, made it all the more special. No, we mean the Mets are better off saying farewell to the deGrom who can’t be counted on to make 30 starts, or 20, or even 10, in any future season because of various injuries, and who will turn 35 on June 19.

Injuries limited deGrom to 12 starts (with a 2.38 ERA) in the COVID-shortened 2020 season, 15 starts in 2021 (with a 1.08 ERA) and 11 in the regular season and one in the playoffs in 2022. DeGrom’s 2022 began on Aug. 2. After seven starts, he had a 1.06 ERA. It grew to 3.08 by the end of the regular season — still top-shelf but not otherworldly, and perhaps evidence that regular rotation work was taking a toll on his effectiveness.

Even with all his ailments, deGrom said in spring training that he was going to opt out of the final year of his Mets contract, which was worth $30.5 million. Then he got hurt and missed the first four months of the season. Still, deGrom stuck to his opt-out guns. It apparently never crossed his mind that to earn a multiyear pact, he needed to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was healthy. He was right. Take a bow, Jacob deGrom, for proving it only takes one desperate club. Take a bow, Texas Rangers, for either the most brilliant or the most ridiculous contract in recent memory. And take a bow, Steve Cohen and Co., for doing the right thing and letting deGrom go.