Are Coaching ratings now gone?

sqidwerd · 03-22-2015, 02:21 PM

Did the coaching attributes replace the coach ratings?

Markus Heinsohn · 03-22-2015, 02:24 PM

Yes.

sqidwerd · 03-22-2015, 03:06 PM

Ok! I'm not going crazy. lol

bazeall · 03-22-2015, 06:57 PM

The ratings are still there. You can't see them on the personnel page, but you can see them if you edit the coach.

hfield007 · 03-22-2015, 07:00 PM

Actually was wondering do the ratings do anything now that reputation replaced them. Every coach still has hidden ratings for teaching. Do they still come into play?

megamanmatt · 03-22-2015, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfield007

Actually was wondering do the ratings do anything now that reputation replaced them. Every coach still has hidden ratings for teaching. Do they still come into play?

Yeah. Most of them are mentioned too, I would assume, if the position has teaching ratings that affect them. So pitching coach's ratings are mentioned because he effects pitching. Same with hitting coaches and Bench Coaches seem to handle Defense and Baserunning. At least my BC seems to teach it well.

St Louis · 03-22-2015, 09:35 PM

I do find it strange that they are not clearly advertised

bazeall · 03-23-2015, 03:03 AM

The ratings are still there. If they still have an effect, then it's a bad thing not having them visible and sortable in the personnel screen.

I♥Pepper · 03-23-2015, 10:12 AM

I'm glad this topic has been brought up. I alluded to it in one of my posts in the feedback thread. Yes, the data for the coach ratings is still there. I would also like to know what the intent from the developers are concerning the coach ratings, team strategy, and how they affect the a.i.'s decisions in simulations. The way things are currently, the entire system makes little sense to me. I was happy with the intense depth that was available in prior releases. Why the changes now? Is this an attempt to "dumb down" the simulation for the general masses?

Matt Arnold · 03-23-2015, 10:17 AM

It's not an attempt to dumb it down - I would say the intent is to turn the game away from being a simple spreadsheet and numbers game, and inject some personality.

I had always found coach hiring to be a simple case - when I need a manager or pitching coach, simply go find the guy with the highest ratings. Doesn't matter anything about him other than the numbers. We may as well have renamed them to "Joe Legend" or "Joe Poor".

Changing the system to one where more of the data is hidden to you, and now your coaches have their own personalities and styles now lets you decide a little bit more what makes sense to you. Some are still better than others, but now you can actually make a case that it might make sense to grab a worse guy, but who does best with power pitchers, if that's how you like to set up your pitching staff.

The overall effect is still fairly small overall - hiring a "ground ball" pitching coach won't convert all your pitchers to groundballers overnight, but it now adds a new flavour to the game that didn't exist before.

I♥Pepper · 03-23-2015, 10:40 AM

Ok, thank you Matt. I think I understand what the intent is now. I just simply don't like the implementation. Maybe it will grow on me.

I like being challenged by a good a.i. opponent when playing out games, or simply competing for a championship in a simulated season. I realize that an online league will present the greatest challenge, but sadly, my schedule is somewhat prohibitive. Does the a.i. make decisions based on a coaches strategy settings? I can no longer set strategy for specific situations like I could in OOTP15. Are the a.i. coaches limited by the same settings and are they making the same decisions up 3 runs as they are down 3 runs? I haven't tested for myself yet but I plan on setting things up to do just that later today.

I♥Pepper · 03-23-2015, 12:19 PM

So, I've ran my initial tests. So far I've been fiddling with only 1 setting in the team strategy section : stolen bases. This one setting is easy to test because the results are easy to find in the box scores and game logs. Let me first give the results : the OOTP16 team strategy settings do not work. They are broken. The a.i. manger does what he wants regardless of settings. I understand that the development team wants to get away from a "spreadsheet game". But, I want control over how my team performs in important situations, just like it's always been up until now. Here is what I just did to prove that the simulation doesn't care about team strategy settings.

I continued my previously started game. Starting new games is now a long process and I didn't want to go through that again for this test. I went to the team strategy settings tab and hit the reset button. I then confirmed that all situations were in fact reset. I then changed all the "stealing bases" settings for all situation to "never" except for one. The Early(1st - 6th) and Close(+/- 3 runs) situation I set to frequent. I then began simulating 1 game at a time until there was a stolen base. The stolen base occurred on about the 5th game.

Bottom of 1st, kc2 to stl0. So with the KC 2 run lead, the ai decided to steal. Where is the setting for 2 run strategy? There isn't one. And I am guessing that it wouldn't have mattered to the ai if I was up 2 runs or down 2 runs.
If the opposing ai wants to "keep it real" by "mixing it up", I'm fine with that. I'm fine with it in my own organization in the minor leagues. But for the big league team, NO, absolutely not ok.
I love this game. I want it to be the best it can be. But, all the time I spend scouting, recruiting, studying, anjd signing players (which I believe is the most awesome part of the game) is totally and completely thrown out the window because the bench coach or manager is totally incapable of following instructions, or should I say that I am not allowed to give accurate instructions.
This also ties into opposing coaching strategies. I am having trouble convincing myself that this game is better than previous iterations. I can't convince myself that the opposing coach is capable of managing a good game, when my own coach can't do it.
In summary, I like the idea of not being able to see all of the other teams coaching strategies. I don't want to know. But, when I install myself into the role of manager for my own team, yes, I want control over stategy, in all games, both played and simulated. PLEASE, bring back the old team startegy user interface for this years game. Thank you for listening.

megamanmatt · 03-23-2015, 12:54 PM

And how does it work across a full season or two? 5 games isn't really a test of anything.

Fyrestorm3 · 03-23-2015, 12:56 PM

For the record, I HATED the old strategy interface. It took eons to set up everything the way you wanted it. The new one is sleeker and simpler. I totally understand wanting more control over your team's strategy, and that's fine, but for me, it was a massive effort for very little payoff.

Pepper, I'm not understanding exactly what was wrong with that stolen base. You said you set the sliders to "frequent" in the "early" and "close" situation. That stolen base was in a close, early situation. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but I'm not positive what the gripe is.

RchW · 03-23-2015, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I♥Pepper

Ok, thank you Matt. I think I understand what the intent is now. I just simply don't like the implementation. Maybe it will grow on me.

I like being challenged by a good a.i. opponent when playing out games, or simply competing for a championship in a simulated season. I realize that an online league will present the greatest challenge, but sadly, my schedule is somewhat prohibitive. Does the a.i. make decisions based on a coaches strategy settings? I can no longer set strategy for specific situations like I could in OOTP15. Are the a.i. coaches limited by the same settings and are they making the same decisions up 3 runs as they are down 3 runs? I haven't tested for myself yet but I plan on setting things up to do just that later today.

Can you tell me who the top 5 3B coaches are in MLB? What about the bottom 5 3B coaches in MLB. How would you determine their ratings?

I ask because it is impossible IMO to actually rate in game coaching skills objectively. There is no baseline or level playing field. I'd submit that it's likely the coaches on a bad team are superior to those on a good team but there is no way to quantify it. Player performance overwhelms coaching influence in the majority of games.

jasonn29tn14 · 03-23-2015, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I♥Pepper

So, I've ran my initial tests. So far I've been fiddling with only 1 setting in the team strategy section : stolen bases. This one setting is easy to test because the results are easy to find in the box scores and game logs. Let me first give the results : the OOTP16 team strategy settings do not work. They are broken. The a.i. manger does what he wants regardless of settings. I understand that the development team wants to get away from a "spreadsheet game". But, I want control over how my team performs in important situations, just like it's always been up until now. Here is what I just did to prove that the simulation doesn't care about team strategy settings.

I continued my previously started game. Starting new games is now a long process and I didn't want to go through that again for this test. I went to the team strategy settings tab and hit the reset button. I then confirmed that all situations were in fact reset. I then changed all the "stealing bases" settings for all situation to "never" except for one. The Early(1st - 6th) and Close(+/- 3 runs) situation I set to frequent. I then began simulating 1 game at a time until there was a stolen base. The stolen base occurred on about the 5th game.

Bottom of 1st, kc2 to stl0. So with the KC 2 run lead, the ai decided to steal. Where is the setting for 2 run strategy? There isn't one. And I am guessing that it wouldn't have mattered to the ai if I was up 2 runs or down 2 runs.
If the opposing ai wants to "keep it real" by "mixing it up", I'm fine with that. I'm fine with it in my own organization in the minor leagues. But for the big league team, NO, absolutely not ok.
I love this game. I want it to be the best it can be. But, all the time I spend scouting, recruiting, studying, anjd signing players (which I believe is the most awesome part of the game) is totally and completely thrown out the window because the bench coach or manager is totally incapable of following instructions, or should I say that I am not allowed to give accurate instructions.
This also ties into opposing coaching strategies. I am having trouble convincing myself that this game is better than previous iterations. I can't convince myself that the opposing coach is capable of managing a good game, when my own coach can't do it.
In summary, I like the idea of not being able to see all of the other teams coaching strategies. I don't want to know. But, when I install myself into the role of manager for my own team, yes, I want control over stategy, in all games, both played and simulated. PLEASE, bring back the old team startegy user interface for this years game. Thank you for listening.

Are you playing as GM Only or are you playing as GM + Manager?

injury log · 03-23-2015, 01:12 PM

Yes, I didn't understand the example either. You instruct the AI to only steal early in games, and only in close games. You sim five games, and the AI only steals one base, and that happens early in a close game. That seems to be evidence that everything is working properly.

I♥Pepper · 03-23-2015, 01:32 PM

Awesome! I see feed back. I'm glad this topic is gaining traction. I want to reply to all of you. I just need a little time. I've got a lot of projects going right now. Finally getting some good weather.

Quote:

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

And how does it work across a full season or two? 5 games isn't really a test of anything.

A longer sample is not needed. The fact that a stolen base occurred at all within the given parameters, namely a 2 run deficit, proves the point. I have no way to control what happens with a 2 run deficit. Not in OOTP16. I did in OOTP15. I am at the a.i.'s mercy now in that situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

For the record, I HATED the old strategy interface. It took eons to set up everything the way you wanted it. The new one is sleeker and simpler. I totally understand wanting more control over your team's strategy, and that's fine, but for me, it was a massive effort for very little payoff.

Pepper, I'm not understanding exactly what was wrong with that stolen base. You said you set the sliders to "frequent" in the "early" and "close" situation. That stolen base was in a close, early situation. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but I'm not positive what the gripe is.

First point is good. It was a pain in the rear. Streamlining is a good thing. It was made easier by the fact that I could export and import. No need to do it every year. The new presets are a good thing. I want to see settings for all the major situations though. There are 3 bases and 1 batter. One swing of the bat can lead to a max of 4 runs. Therefore there are a minimum of 11 situations concerning run deficits and run leads.>4,4,3,2,1,0,-1,-2,-3,-4,and >-4.The amount of innings covered in each situation could be compressed however.

Second, the settings available do not cover 2 run leads or 2 run deficits.Only +/-1 and +/-3. What is supposed to happen with +/-2. Confusing to me. Also +1 and -1 are not the same. It just gets worse with +2,-2 and +3,-3.

kackle85 · 03-23-2015, 01:37 PM

Im totally on board with the change I just wish there was a little more detailed info in the coach profiles.

Syd Thrift · 03-23-2015, 01:40 PM

I have to say, I reeeeeeeeeeeally like and prefer the new way of displaying coaches. In games past I'd usually just turn off coaches because the way things would work is that you'd go out of your way to obscure actual player ratings as much as you possibly could, make trades and sign free agents with a sufficiently low level of data (many folks even go so far as to turn ratings off and go by stats only), and then when it comes time to hire your coaching staff, it's... "oh, well, this guy is LEGENDARY and this guy is only Fair so clearly I want the LEGENDARY guy".

This way, you see the guy and you can look up his history, but at the end of the day if he's a bum who rode the coattails of a good team, then, well, the Don Zimmers of the world need to eat too.

03-22-2015, 02:21 PM	#1
sqidwerd Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 80	Are Coaching ratings now gone? Did the coaching attributes replace the coach ratings?

03-22-2015, 02:24 PM	#2
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	Yes. __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

03-23-2015, 12:19 PM	#12
I♥Pepper Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 33	So, I've ran my initial tests. So far I've been fiddling with only 1 setting in the team strategy section : stolen bases. This one setting is easy to test because the results are easy to find in the box scores and game logs. Let me first give the results : the OOTP16 team strategy settings do not work. They are broken. The a.i. manger does what he wants regardless of settings. I understand that the development team wants to get away from a "spreadsheet game". But, I want control over how my team performs in important situations, just like it's always been up until now. Here is what I just did to prove that the simulation doesn't care about team strategy settings. I continued my previously started game. Starting new games is now a long process and I didn't want to go through that again for this test. I went to the team strategy settings tab and hit the reset button. I then confirmed that all situations were in fact reset. I then changed all the "stealing bases" settings for all situation to "never" except for one. The Early(1st - 6th) and Close(+/- 3 runs) situation I set to frequent. I then began simulating 1 game at a time until there was a stolen base. The stolen base occurred on about the 5th game. Bottom of 1st, kc2 to stl0. So with the KC 2 run lead, the ai decided to steal. Where is the setting for 2 run strategy? There isn't one. And I am guessing that it wouldn't have mattered to the ai if I was up 2 runs or down 2 runs. If the opposing ai wants to "keep it real" by "mixing it up", I'm fine with that. I'm fine with it in my own organization in the minor leagues. But for the big league team, NO, absolutely not ok. I love this game. I want it to be the best it can be. But, all the time I spend scouting, recruiting, studying, anjd signing players (which I believe is the most awesome part of the game) is totally and completely thrown out the window because the bench coach or manager is totally incapable of following instructions, or should I say that I am not allowed to give accurate instructions. This also ties into opposing coaching strategies. I am having trouble convincing myself that this game is better than previous iterations. I can't convince myself that the opposing coach is capable of managing a good game, when my own coach can't do it. In summary, I like the idea of not being able to see all of the other teams coaching strategies. I don't want to know. But, when I install myself into the role of manager for my own team, yes, I want control over stategy, in all games, both played and simulated. PLEASE, bring back the old team startegy user interface for this years game. Thank you for listening. Last edited by I♥Pepper; 03-23-2015 at 12:22 PM. Reason: typo

03-23-2015, 12:54 PM	#13
megamanmatt Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lakeville, Minnesota Posts: 2,416	And how does it work across a full season or two? 5 games isn't really a test of anything. __________________ "The Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles, where there are no lakes; The Oilers moved to Tennessee where there is no oil; the Jazz moved to Salt Lake City where they don't allow music; The Oakland Raiders moved to Los Angeles and then back to Oakland, no one in Los Angeles seemed to notice." Note to self: Princess Kenny was really off-putting.

03-22-2015, 03:06 PM	#3
sqidwerd Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 80	Ok! I'm not going crazy. lol

03-22-2015, 06:57 PM	#4
bazeall Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 190	The ratings are still there. You can't see them on the personnel page, but you can see them if you edit the coach.

03-22-2015, 07:00 PM	#5
hfield007 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,713	Actually was wondering do the ratings do anything now that reputation replaced them. Every coach still has hidden ratings for teaching. Do they still come into play?

03-22-2015, 09:35 PM	#7
St Louis Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 14	I do find it strange that they are not clearly advertised

03-23-2015, 03:03 AM	#8
bazeall Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 190	The ratings are still there. If they still have an effect, then it's a bad thing not having them visible and sortable in the personnel screen.

03-23-2015, 10:12 AM	#9
I♥Pepper Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 33	I'm glad this topic has been brought up. I alluded to it in one of my posts in the feedback thread. Yes, the data for the coach ratings is still there. I would also like to know what the intent from the developers are concerning the coach ratings, team strategy, and how they affect the a.i.'s decisions in simulations. The way things are currently, the entire system makes little sense to me. I was happy with the intense depth that was available in prior releases. Why the changes now? Is this an attempt to "dumb down" the simulation for the general masses?

03-23-2015, 10:17 AM	#10
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,843	It's not an attempt to dumb it down - I would say the intent is to turn the game away from being a simple spreadsheet and numbers game, and inject some personality. I had always found coach hiring to be a simple case - when I need a manager or pitching coach, simply go find the guy with the highest ratings. Doesn't matter anything about him other than the numbers. We may as well have renamed them to "Joe Legend" or "Joe Poor". Changing the system to one where more of the data is hidden to you, and now your coaches have their own personalities and styles now lets you decide a little bit more what makes sense to you. Some are still better than others, but now you can actually make a case that it might make sense to grab a worse guy, but who does best with power pitchers, if that's how you like to set up your pitching staff. The overall effect is still fairly small overall - hiring a "ground ball" pitching coach won't convert all your pitchers to groundballers overnight, but it now adds a new flavour to the game that didn't exist before.

03-23-2015, 10:40 AM	#11
I♥Pepper Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 33	Ok, thank you Matt. I think I understand what the intent is now. I just simply don't like the implementation. Maybe it will grow on me. I like being challenged by a good a.i. opponent when playing out games, or simply competing for a championship in a simulated season. I realize that an online league will present the greatest challenge, but sadly, my schedule is somewhat prohibitive. Does the a.i. make decisions based on a coaches strategy settings? I can no longer set strategy for specific situations like I could in OOTP15. Are the a.i. coaches limited by the same settings and are they making the same decisions up 3 runs as they are down 3 runs? I haven't tested for myself yet but I plan on setting things up to do just that later today.

03-23-2015, 12:56 PM	#14
Fyrestorm3 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts Posts: 2,928	For the record, I HATED the old strategy interface. It took eons to set up everything the way you wanted it. The new one is sleeker and simpler. I totally understand wanting more control over your team's strategy, and that's fine, but for me, it was a massive effort for very little payoff. Pepper, I'm not understanding exactly what was wrong with that stolen base. You said you set the sliders to "frequent" in the "early" and "close" situation. That stolen base was in a close, early situation. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but I'm not positive what the gripe is.

03-23-2015, 01:12 PM	#17
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	Yes, I didn't understand the example either. You instruct the AI to only steal early in games, and only in close games. You sim five games, and the AI only steals one base, and that happens early in a close game. That seems to be evidence that everything is working properly.

03-23-2015, 01:37 PM	#19
kackle85 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 71	Im totally on board with the change I just wish there was a little more detailed info in the coach profiles.