Saves - this can't be right, right?

[Westheim]

Tim Webster walked a guy with two out in the seventh inning, the Raccoons up 3-1. With the weather already shoddy, I moved to the bullpen and put Domingo Moreno in. The runner stole second base on the only pitch Moreno threw before the tarp came on and stayed on.

Moreno is credited with a save, but I lived under the impression that you need to pitch at least one third of an inning to get a save.

Also, Moreno is not credited with facing a batter. Whom did he throw that strike to? The fat lady waiting to sing God Bless America?

[Questdog]

You are correct; post in the bug thread.

[monkeystyxx]

A relief pitcher is awarded a save when he meets all three of the following conditions:

He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
He is not the winning pitcher; and
He qualifies under one of the following conditions:
- He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
- He enters the game, regardless of the score, with the potential tying run either on base, at bat, or on deck; or
- He pitches for at least three innings. (The word "effectively" has been removed from the MLB rules.)

Under the last condition, the official scorer has some discretion as to whether or not to award a save.

This is rule 10.20 of the Major League Rules.

According to the above, which isn't worded particularly well I don't think, you don't need to pitch for at least an inning if the tying run is on base, at bat or on deck. In your situation the tying run was at bat. So apparently there's no minimum.

As for not being credited with facing a batter, maybe you need to complete a plate appearance to be considered to have 'faced a batter'? Not sure on that one.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by monkeystyxx

According to the above, which isn't worded particularly well I don't think, you don't need to pitch for at least an inning if the tying run is on base, at bat or on deck. In your situation the tying run was at bat. So apparently there's no minimum.

That's the old rule. The current rule (MLB Rule 9.19) sets out the requirements for crediting a pitcher with a save, and one of those requirements is that "he is credited with at least 1/3 of an inning pitched."

Originally Posted by monkeystyxx

As for not being credited with facing a batter, maybe you need to complete a plate appearance to be considered to have 'faced a batter'? Not sure on that one.

I think that's correct. Totals for batters faced and plate appearances should equal out. A reliever who enters a game but who doesn't pitch because the game is called is credited with a game played but not with a game pitched (Rule 9.20 comment).

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by monkeystyxx

According to the above, which isn't worded particularly well I don't think, you don't need to pitch for at least an inning if the tying run is on base, at bat or on deck. In your situation the tying run was at bat. So apparently there's no minimum.

As for not being credited with facing a batter, maybe you need to complete a plate appearance to be considered to have 'faced a batter'? Not sure on that one.

Wherever you got that from left out condition C) after "he is not the winning pitcher". Condition C) states that the pitcher must be credited with at least 1/3 of an inning pitched.

[Westheim]

Posted to the bug report thread.

Final oddity about this exceptionally wicked day in Portland (all days in Portland are wicked, but this one had that little extra): this was the first leg of a double header including a makeup date for a rainout earlier in the season. While this game got rain-shortened, the second game was started and completed on the same day. Those ninja clouds!

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

A reliever who enters a game but who doesn't pitch because the game is called is credited with a game played but not with a game pitched (Rule 9.20 comment).

That is true, but this fella actually pitched, so he would get credit for it.

P.S. You don't get credit for facing a batter until the plate appearance by the batter is complete. Same as that batter would not be credited with a plate appearance.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Posted to the bug report thread.

Final oddity about this exceptionally wicked day in Portland (all days in Portland are wicked, but this one had that little extra): this was the first leg of a double header including a makeup date for a rainout earlier in the season. While this game got rain-shortened, the second game was started and completed on the same day. Those ninja clouds!

I hope they tighten this feature of the game up for V. 17. It is cool to have this, but I cannot use it as silly stuff like this happens quite often.

[Doc_Brown]

Originally Posted by Questdog

I hope they tighten this feature of the game up for V. 17. It is cool to have this, but I cannot use it as silly stuff like this happens quite often.

Seconded. I find it funny that Game 1 gets called for rain but the 2nd game of the DH is played in full.

[faithful2thecall]

I'm probably not the only person who has had this general scenario unfold:

I had a starter working on a shutout going into the 9th. As I was up 5-0 and his pitch count was reasonable, I left him out there to try to close it out. He loses the shutout and my opponent got within 5-2, so I brought in my closer with 2 outs and the bases empty to finish it off. The closer throws 1 pitch and gets a fly out to end the game, but he wasn't credited with the save.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by faithful2thecall

I'm probably not the only person who has had this general scenario unfold:

I had a starter working on a shutout going into the 9th. As I was up 5-0 and his pitch count was reasonable, I left him out there to try to close it out. He loses the shutout and my opponent got within 5-2, so I brought in my closer with 2 outs and the bases empty to finish it off. The closer throws 1 pitch and gets a fly out to end the game, but he wasn't credited with the save.

He should NOT be credited with a save in that situation. The tying run has to be at least on deck for a save with less than an inning pitched and your tying run was on double-deck .

[ConStar]

Originally Posted by faithful2thecall

I'm probably not the only person who has had this general scenario unfold:

I had a starter working on a shutout going into the 9th. As I was up 5-0 and his pitch count was reasonable, I left him out there to try to close it out. He loses the shutout and my opponent got within 5-2, so I brought in my closer with 2 outs and the bases empty to finish it off. The closer throws 1 pitch and gets a fly out to end the game, but he wasn't credited with the save.

That's actually correct. If he doesn't enter with the tying run in the on-deck circle, he has to go a full 1 inning.

[rpriske]

Originally Posted by Questdog

your tying run was on double-deck .

I agree with what you said... I just wanted to say that I have never heard the term 'double-deck'.

I know it as 'in the hole'.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by rpriske

I agree with what you said... I just wanted to say that I have never heard the term 'double-deck'.

I know it as 'in the hole'.

I am glad to be able to educate you on a new term! I did not make it up; not sure where I first heard it, but it was a long time ago.......

I have heard 'in the hole' before, too, of course, but where the heck does that come from? It makes no sense to me, so I don't use it.....

[Westheim]

Since the batter following the on-deck batter is still in the dugout, which - as the name implies - is dug out below ground level, "hole" appears as a fitting description as to his whereabouts.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Since the batter following the on-deck batter is still in the dugout, which - as the name implies - is dug out below ground level, "hole" appears as a fitting description as to his whereabouts.

Maybe, but then every player on the team who is not on base, at bat or on deck is 'in the hole'......

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Maybe, but then every player on the team who is not on base, at bat or on deck is 'in the hole'......

Aren't we all "in the hole" at some point or another?

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Aren't we all "in the hole" at some point or another?

It's been a long time.....

[faithful2thecall]

Interesting. Apparently I misunderstood the rule then. Thanks.