Heinie Meine 95 Starts in 1931!

[congokurtz]

Playing with real historical lineups, IL transactions and transactions on, in 1931 Heinie Meine started 95 games and pitched 513 innings for the Pirates. The previous year he started 52 games. In real life he started 35 games in 1931 and 16 in 1930. I'm pretty sure this a bug. So should I report it in the bugs forum? Or is there something I'm overlooking?

[pstrickert]

Not seeing it. I just imported the 1931 season with real lineups & transactions. Meine started 35 games in 1931 in the sim. What does the rest of your pitching staff look like? Anyone missing?

[congokurtz]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Not seeing it. I just imported the 1931 season with real lineups & transactions. Meine started 35 games in 1931 in the sim. What does the rest of your pitching staff look like? Anyone missing?

Thanks for the reply. I'm not actively playing with the Pirates. I noticed the high number after replaying the season. I think the problem is because I have historical minors turned on. Larry French and Ray Kremer and other starters were in the minors that year and never played for the Pirates.

[pstrickert]

The AI should bring players up from the minors if they appear in the real life lineup. That hasn't been a problem before (as long as the option to prevent AI roster changes is not chosen).

[congokurtz]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

The AI should bring players up from the minors if they appear in the real life lineup. That hasn't been a problem before (as long as the option to prevent AI roster changes is not chosen).

The option to prevent AI rosters changes is not selected. There are no human GM/managers managing any teams. I've now noticed it's happened with other teams and other seasons as well: Rube Walberg with the PH Athletics in 1930 63 GS in the sim/ 30 in RL; Lefty Grove PH Athletics 1929 had 60 in the sim/ 37 in RL; Ray Benge in 1929 PH Phillies 56 GS; RL 27; Watty Clark Brooklyn 61GS in the sim; 36 in RL. And many more including Babe Ruth with 71 GS in 1916

[pstrickert]

Didn't used to be a problem. I'll file a bug report.

[congokurtz]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Didn't used to be a problem. I'll file a bug report.

Thank you

[pstrickert]

Hmm. I imported the 1931 season using real lineups & transactions. I enabled historical minors. Then I simmed. There were no problems. So, the question is: when did you start your league? What season?

[congokurtz]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Hmm. I imported the 1931 season using real lineups & transactions. I enabled historical minors. Then I simmed. There were no problems. So, the question is: when did you start your league? What season?

Started in 1901 in OOTP 23 for a Mac. I'm not sure which version of 23 I started on. I think it was somewhere around the third patch, but for the last 5 seasons I've been running the latest, 23.4.64.

I believe the problem started in the 1916 season (possibly the first season historical minors came into play)

Thanks for looking into it!

[congokurtz]

So I'm investigating further and discovered in 1916 when Babe Ruth had 71 sim starts, Dutch Leonard wasn't on the team. The sim shows Dutch Leonard's first sim season was 1919 for the Tigers, when in RL it was 1913 for the Redsox.

[congokurtz]

I did some more investigating into the problem and it appears to be a problem with having historical minors turned on. I simmed a season from 1901 to 1918 with historical minors on and the same problem occurred. I then simmed from 1901 to 1918 with no historical minors and there was no problem

[pstrickert]

Interesting. I imported the 1913 season with historical minors. Then I simmed to 1920. Leonard made his starts for Boston from 1913-1918. He then made his starts for Detroit in 1919. So, no problems that I could see. Ruth also looked fine. However, Mule Watson didn't make any starts for PHA in 1918. He shows up in the as played lineups file in 1918. So, what happened in the sim? He has no appearances at the major or minor league level in 1918.

Oh, now I see what happened. On 6/21/19, the AI signed him to a minor league contract with the Beaumont Oilers in the Texas League. That probably means he left the PHA organization (thanks to the AI). I guess that prevented him from being "called up" to make his starts for PHA in 1918 (the first of which happened on 7/4/18 in real life). The problem is that the AI is not supposed to make trades, releases, or FA signings. Not on its own. The historical transaction file is supposed to dictate what the AI does. This is a recent (known) problem that hasn't been addressed yet.

[pstrickert]

Interesting. I imported the 1913 season with historical minors. Then I simmed to 1920. Leonard made his starts for Boston from 1913-1918. He then made his starts for Detroit in 1919. So, no problems that I could see. Ruth also looked fine. However, Mule Watson didn't make any starts for PHA in 1918. He shows up in the as played lineups file in 1918. So, what happened in the sim? He has no appearances at the major or minor league level in 1918.

Oh, now I see a problem. On 6/21/19, the AI signed him to a minor league contract with the Beaumont Oilers in the Texas League. The problem is that the AI is not supposed to make trades, releases, or FA signings. Not on its own. The historical transaction file is supposed to dictate what the AI does. This is a recent (known) problem that hasn't been addressed yet.

Still, I don't understand why Mule Watson did not make his starts for PHA in 1918. He has absolutely no stats (major or minor) in 1918.

[pstrickert]

I noticed a couple of other pitchers do not appear on the 1918 PHA roster. As a result, Scott Perry made 66 starts in the sim (compared to 36 IRL). He picked up all the extra starts because the AI could not find these pitchers (or made them unavailable after making unwarranted roster moves).

[pstrickert]

Bottom line: it appears that enabling historical minors is creating havoc with rosters.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Bottom line: it appears that enabling historical minors is creating havoc with rosters.

That's why it's not recommended. I think, like you, for those that have been around long enough, this is known but, all caps aside, it seems most folks just roll past it or don't take it as a stern enough warning. The result is people think OOTP doesn't work or is buggy and while some will post and it can be explained... others probably just get frustrated and upset. It may make sense for these options to finally be grayed out if Historic Minors is enabled.

[pstrickert]

I'm seeing problems I wasn't seeing before. My hunch is that the AI is doing things it was prevented from doing before. Thus, the havoc. Here's hoping it can be fixed, if someone ever looks into it.

[pstrickert]

BTW, LandsdowneSt, since you're so good at it, do you think you might try upgrading the Facegen for Heinie Meine? The current one looks ghoulish.

[congokurtz]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

That's why it's not recommended. I think, like you, for those that have been around long enough, this is known but, all caps aside, it seems most folks just roll past it or don't take it as a stern enough warning. The result is people think OOTP doesn't work or is buggy and while some will post and it can be explained... others probably just get frustrated and upset. It may make sense for these options to finally be grayed out if Historic Minors is enabled.

I'm the latter of the folks. I thought things would be off but not this far off. I'm not really that concerned though because I'm more focused on the NeL, hence the reason for turning on historical minors (maybe one day the NeL won't have to be affiliated to the MLB). My plan is to turn the NeL into a fictional league that competes with the MLB after it stops importing as a real historical affiliated to the majors. I'll turn off historical minors once the NeL is no longer imported.

Thanks for all your help, guys

[LansdowneSt]

Thanks for the kind words!

Post 623...

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