Building through the farm system

[Forza]

I'm still learning the mechanics of not only the game but also baseball so thought I'd pick your brains if I may.

I'm planning to start a long term dynasty at some point today and though I expect to make a lot of mistakes I still want to stick to an overarching philosophy of building through my farm system. Two questions though;

1.) How realistic is it to build through the farm and not chase high profile free agents? Will my owner allow me to follow this strategy?

2.) What in your opinion are some of the best or at least more interesting farm systems in the game at the moment. Ideally I'm looking for a middling organization that has promising depth.

Thanks in advance.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by Forza

I'm still learning the mechanics of not only the game but also baseball so thought I'd pick your brains if I may.

I'm planning to start a long term dynasty at some point today and though I expect to make a lot of mistakes I still want to stick to an overarching philosophy of building through my farm system. Two questions though;

1.) How realistic is it to build through the farm and not chase high profile free agents? Will my owner allow me to follow this strategy?

2.) What in your opinion are some of the best or at least more interesting farm systems in the game at the moment. Ideally I'm looking for a middling organization that has promising depth.

Thanks in advance.

1) It's entirely possible. Whether your owner is alright with it or not depends on the owner and his goals though.

2) Twins, Astros, and Cubs come to mind first. Personally I recommend the Twins and not just because I'm from Minnesota and by extension a Twins fan. Really good farm system. Not a whole lot of great talent on the ML roster but we have our stars few though they may be. Also the Pohlads are exceptionally patient, at least in the real world, but generally stingy budget wise. I'm not sure how much of that transfers over to OOTP though since I tend to play fictional leagues.

[jasonn29tn14]

#1 varies from owner to owner.

#2 would be the Chicago Cubs at the moment. They are loaded with prospects.

[frangipard]

FYI - Baseball America just released their 2015 rankings. John Sickels did, too.

The Cubs, Dodgers and Red Sox are just absurdly loaded with prospects right now, many of them high-level (AA/AAA). But the latter two are hardly "middling" teams; they're both also contenders at the ML level and expect to win now.

Agree with Astros and Twins. Braves in the NL.

[pgjocki]

Do a search on "the Cardinal way" to find an organization that has thrived on developing young players.

[Luis]

I'm not a TB Rays fan but if you look at their organization it would be hard to find anyone with more success with their minor league system over the last 5 to 10 years, particularly if you appreciate pitching.

[MikeS21]

Jim Callis at MLB.com lists his six picks for best farm systems since 2009:

Ranking the best farm systems of the past five years | MLB.com

1) Nationals
2) Cardinals
3) Braves
4) Royals
5) Reds
6) Cubs

Having read what others have posted in this thread, I'd say there is some disagreement on that topic.

As far as building via the farm system, in years past, I have attempted the same thing. Within five seasons, my minor leagues were stocked with a lot of 2-5 star prospects. You will discover that you can trade 2 star players for 3 star (and 3 star for 4 star) players fairly easily in the lower minors, which upgrade your farm system.

One consideration in your draft. The better your MLB team does, the lower your position in the draft. Your influx of talent isn't quite as good. In real life, the reason the Cubs, Reds, and Nationals have done well in their farm systems is because they have had some lean years that pushed them closer to the top of the draft board, enabling them to draft better talent. As that talent reaches the major leagues as ithas for the Nats and Reds, they sink down the draft list, and don't have quite as good talent in their system as they did 3-4 years ago.

[thehatfield]

Originally Posted by Forza

1.) How realistic is it to build through the farm and not chase high profile free agents? Will my owner allow me to follow this strategy?

In your Manager's Office under Control & Auto-Play Settings you can select the option "Cannot be Fired." I will do this sometimes if I take over a struggling club with the rationalization that "everyone at the club understands" we're entering a long rebuild process. Then after I've had 5 years or so to build the system up (implement "my vision") I remove that option and see if I can be successful with the new crop of players.

[frangipard]

Originally Posted by MikeS21

Jim Callis at MLB.com lists his six picks for best farm systems since 2009:...

Having read what others have posted in this thread, I'd say there is some disagreement on that topic.

That's a very different question than what the OP asked for and what people were responding to, though. A system that has been productive in the past five years =/= a system that is currently, in April 2015, stocked with talent.

[Questdog]

I nearly always depend 95% on my farm system for talent. The only free agents I will pursue are because I have no alternative from my farm system. I do not make trades either, if I can help it. When I do, it is usually just to find a home for a player that I cannot use.

To build a team exclusively with the farm system takes a lot of effort. Not only do you have to identify the best talent in the draft, but you have to make sure that you have a steady supply of talent at all positions. Spending your #1 pick on a catcher for 3 years in a row might insure that you will have a good catcher in the future, but it will also insure that you are substandard everywhere else.

I draft on a ten year plan. I have ten draft "patterns" that I rotate each season. They are plans on what positions to pick in what rounds. Thus, in every 10-year span all of the positions have been everywhere in the draft and this helps keep my stream of talent even across the board.

However, I do not stick rigidly to the scheme. If there is a player that is clearly superior to any in the position I desire to pick, I will pick the superior player and make adjustments in the future lists to compensate.

[hwy61]

I've had some success with this. Player development is the biggest thrill i get out of this game. I'm 4 seasons into my save and my minor league system is pretty stocked. Some pointers:

1. Raise your player development budget as high as you can afford to. I go double what the baseline is. This seems to make a huge difference. The same goes for the scouting budget.

2. Get good coaches in the minor leagues. I find hitting coaches that specialize in contact to be effective because this translates directly into batting average which is the best indicator of hitter performance. Good performance seems to effect ratings increase. But also look at how they handle rookies.

3. Draft players with positive personalities. If your entire system is filled with players with strong worth ethic and intelligence far more of the low potential players are likely to develop into decent major leaguers. This also helps team chemistry as it keeps out trouble makers.

4. Clean out each level of majors at the end of every season. I drop the 25+ year olds that aren't developing with the exception of some 25-28 yo at the AAA level who are fringe and utility players.. Make sure your high potential players are playing. This to me is way more important than what level they are playing at. I also like to force start them at the position they are least skilled at so they can be defensively proficient at as many positions as possible.

5. Always be on the look out for bargains. Look at free agents under 24 with decent potential that have been released. I also look at players with extremely good ratings in speed in defensive range. These skills are unlikely to diminish so if you have a player like this with good personality fundamentals and he develops some hitting ability he has a lot of value. I also find a lot of bargains late in the draft with pitchers who can hit, and position players that can pitch. Switch them. The AI doesn't seem to look for this.

6. Sometimes I'll sign washed up major leaguers or AAA releases to minor league contracts who can still dominate in the low minors and play them there just so the team wins. This helps morale, which in turn helps development (I think).

There are probably a lot more things I'm not thinking of. It really all depends on how much time you want to spend micro managing. To me this part of the game is a lot more fun than whats going on in the majors. Right now when I look at my development report each month I'm seeing about 2 green "+" symbol for every one red "-" which is very rewarding.

[kackle85]

I keep it simple.

1.) I pretty much always take the best player available in the draft and if it leads to a surplus at a certain position and shortage at another I have prospects that I can trade away for major league ready talent to fill that spot.

2.) I avoid calling players up until they are dominating in the minors if at all possible.

3.) When it gets to the later rounds of the draft I look for any elite fielders left and hope that the bat develops. I have seen many more players in this game improve the bat than in the field.

[mpejkrm]

Originally Posted by Luis

I'm not a TB Rays fan but if you look at their organization it would be hard to find anyone with more success with their minor league system over the last 5 to 10 years, particularly if you appreciate pitching.

The last few years have been rough. They had ten first rounders in 2011 and whiffed on every single one of them.

[SwedishChef]

good thread.

1. i've been wondering if increasing the development budget actually produces results. i usually dump all my excess money into that category because i've found that if i don't spend what is allotted my owner will decrease my budget the next year accordingly.

2. i've never actually managed the promotion/delegation and signing/releasing of the entire farm system because it seems to be a herculean task. normally, i just find the prospects that interest me and disable AI for those. any advice for someone considering shifting to monitoring the entire farm system?

3. does anyone put pitch counts on their pitching prospects? absent doing that, do you think minor league managers are running them into the ground? i'd say 50% of my pitching prospects (yes, i know TINSTAAPP) blow out their arms in their first year. but, that's probably realistic.

4. how does everyone handle the mass influx after the draft? do you do cuts then, or do you cut before the season and leave plenty of room at the lowest level?

[hwy61]

Originally Posted by SwedishChef

good thread.

1. i've been wondering if increasing the development budget actually produces results. i usually dump all my excess money into that category because i've found that if i don't spend what is allotted my owner will decrease my budget the next year accordingly.

2. i've never actually managed the promotion/delegation and signing/releasing of the entire farm system because it seems to be a herculean task. normally, i just find the prospects that interest me and disable AI for those. any advice for someone considering shifting to monitoring the entire farm system?

3. does anyone put pitch counts on their pitching prospects? absent doing that, do you think minor league managers are running them into the ground? i'd say 50% of my pitching prospects (yes, i know TINSTAAPP) blow out their arms in their first year. but, that's probably realistic.

4. how does everyone handle the mass influx after the draft? do you do cuts then, or do you cut before the season and leave plenty of room at the lowest level?

1. I play fictional but I took over a small market team where I couldn't afford to raise it the first season, but dropped some payroll the second and was able to raise it. It seemed to make a considerable difference. It effects every player in your system so it seems worth it to me.

2. I do monitor my entire farm system, but I tend to make all the changes in the off season and keep everyone at the same level throughout unless i have a huge star prospect who I want to rush to the majors. I use last years stats as an indicator, but I'm much more careful about level placement with players that have a lot of potential.

3. I don't pay attention to pitch count.

4. I typically drop about 30-40 players at the end of the season, focusing on the ones that have had their potential diminish. I pay close attention to the monthly development report. Also I play with a fictional MLB setup with 5 levels of minors all of which play a full 140 game schedule, and I set the draft for April 1st. That way I can get all my rosters set before the season starts. Purists might not like that sort of change but it makes life easier for me . I keep about 30 players instead of 25 at each level to cover injuries and keep it to around 40 at the lowest level. I don't like the way the AI piles 60 + players at rookie level.

[ThePretender]

A smart thing to do when rebuilding is signing key FA and flipping them at the deadline for prospects. Or taking on salary dumps with prospects attached. Either one helps to speed up the rebuild.

[cmaug]

Originally Posted by hwy61

I also find a lot of bargains late in the draft with pitchers who can hit, and position players that can pitch. Switch them. The AI doesn't seem to look for this..

This is one of my favorite mid-to-late round draft strategies - it's like buying a lottery ticket with twice as many chances to win. I've had a couple successful catcher to reliever conversions and one particularly good starter to CF - that one made an All-Star team.

I'll shortlist the prospects I like on the draft pool list so that even if I don't draft them, I can maybe grab them as a cheap throw-in in a future transaction.

[cmaug]

Originally Posted by SwedishChef

3. does anyone put pitch counts on their pitching prospects? absent doing that, do you think minor league managers are running them into the ground? i'd say 50% of my pitching prospects (yes, i know TINSTAAPP) blow out their arms in their first year. but, that's probably realistic.

I put 90-pitch limits on minor league starters - not sure how much of a difference it makes...

[Tram2Whitaker]

Teams like the Cubs and Astros have been stocking their farms for years, and are just about to capitalize. I think if you really want to 'build' the franchise, and you have the patience, the Marlins or Athletics are really the route you want to go. If you really want the challenge of building from within, without the temptation to splurge on free agents, take the Twins or the Pirates.
I have found that it's possible, so long as you don't get fired, to build a team through the farm, but sometimes you have to find that one player that brings it all together (usually a pitcher). More often than not though, you might find that it is more expensive to keep this team together, than to simply fill in the missing parts (arbitration and extensions)

[Forza]

Originally Posted by frangipard

FYI - Baseball America just released their 2015 rankings. John Sickels did, too.

The Cubs, Dodgers and Red Sox are just absurdly loaded with prospects right now, many of them high-level (AA/AAA). But the latter two are hardly "middling" teams; they're both also contenders at the ML level and expect to win now.

Agree with Astros and Twins. Braves in the NL.

Thanks for the tip, I've checked both out.

Originally Posted by pgjocki

Do a search on "the Cardinal way" to find an organization that has thrived on developing young players.

Interesting stuff. This is the kind of thing I'm looking for. Do you know of any books or blogs that go more in depth about the Cardinal way?

Originally Posted by Purple Cowboy

In your Manager's Office under Control & Auto-Play Settings you can select the option "Cannot be Fired." I will do this sometimes if I take over a struggling club with the rationalization that "everyone at the club understands" we're entering a long rebuild process. Then after I've had 5 years or so to build the system up (implement "my vision") I remove that option and see if I can be successful with the new crop of players.

For some reason I'm reluctant to use this just because I think it will ruin the immersion for me. What kind of timescale do you put on a rebuilding?

Originally Posted by Questdog

I nearly always depend 95% on my farm system for talent. The only free agents I will pursue are because I have no alternative from my farm system. I do not make trades either, if I can help it. When I do, it is usually just to find a home for a player that I cannot use.

To build a team exclusively with the farm system takes a lot of effort. Not only do you have to identify the best talent in the draft, but you have to make sure that you have a steady supply of talent at all positions. Spending your #1 pick on a catcher for 3 years in a row might insure that you will have a good catcher in the future, but it will also insure that you are substandard everywhere else.

I draft on a ten year plan. I have ten draft "patterns" that I rotate each season. They are plans on what positions to pick in what rounds. Thus, in every 10-year span all of the positions have been everywhere in the draft and this helps keep my stream of talent even across the board.

However, I do not stick rigidly to the scheme. If there is a player that is clearly superior to any in the position I desire to pick, I will pick the superior player and make adjustments in the future lists to compensate.

The idea of an organised 10 year plan is really interesting to me. Do you use any external tricks (spreadsheets etc) to keep track of what you're doing or is it all just in your head?

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When looking for and signing prospects for the farm system how much emphasis should I be placing on the draft system and how much on looking for young and cheap international players. Is one preferable to the other or should I look for a mix?