a few semi-subjective questions about 17 vs 16

voxpoptart · 04-10-2016, 09:41 PM

Hi! I love OOTP16 -- it's a brilliant simulation -- but I'm financially not in a position to just automatically buy the new version the moment it's released. So to those of you who've developed or played it, I wonder whether or OOTP17 is less prone to certain small flaws in prior versions that have frustrated me.

1. Is there a drastic reduction in the frequency with which teams will trade prospects for veterans whom it then doesn't even insert into its lineups or rotation?

2. Have Rebuilding teams stopped trading away 25- and 26-year-old stars with years (or in my no-free-agents league, infinity) of team control left?

3. Is there substantial improvement in how teams will align their fielders to get players in the best positions for them?

4. Is there substantial reduction in the number of times a team will realign their players for no especially good or bad reason? By this I mean, for two examples of many, the current case where Exmouth wants to play reliably All-Star center fielder Kane Brigatti at first base, and all-star first baseman Damian Mossop in center field. And Melbourne is switching DH Maximilian Flon to center field, and reigning three-time MVP center fielder Elimilton Gaona to left field. Neither set of moves is a good *or* bad decision in terms of fielding quality, but they're not switches a real team would do without a fantastically good reason.

5. Is there substantial reduction in the number of weird cases where a team will demote a solid regular to AAA, and promote someone it then puts on the bench -- even though, if you manually return the demoted regular to the majors, it will immediately reinsert the player in the lineup? (Only to demote him the next day and restart the cycle?)

6. Has the game allowed more room for players in their late 20s to occasionally Find Themselves and dramatically improve, a la Jose Bautista, J.D. Martinez, Dallas Keuchel, or Jake Arrieta? (Without, that is, turning random change frequency way up? That does things to young players I don't like.)

Any of those, if true, would be delightful news. What do y'all think? Have any happened? Have any clearly *not* happened?

bwburke94 · 04-10-2016, 10:19 PM

1. Not drastic, but there's a reduction.
2. No, but it's much harder to get those kinds of players.
3. Markus has said he's working on it.
4. See #3.
5. From what I've seen it's worse than in 16, but this may be my league settings.
6. Yes.

voxpoptart · 04-13-2016, 01:39 AM

Thanks so much! I think I'll ask again after the next update -- as positive as most of that sounds, I really dislike the bizarre demotions of good regulars to AAA. Maybe in one more patch the balance will be obviously, irrefutably favorable.

RchW · 04-13-2016, 02:26 AM

Never seen 5 ever in any league or version.

Lukas Berger · 04-13-2016, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Never seen 5 ever in any league or version.

Nor have I. Hadn't even heard of it until now

If you're seeing this, could you please post in the bug reports forum and upload your league files as well?

Thanks!

voxpoptart · 04-13-2016, 02:48 AM

Sure. How do I do post league files?

I have a 20-team league in which two teams demote their (good) regular CFs every day -- I keep re-setting it, they keep repeating the demotions.

Also, a third team insistently demotes their (mediocre but serviceable) regular SS in favor of an 18-year-old, admittedly with 5-star potential, who's awful at fielding the position and is still working on how to hit AAA pitching, let alone the majors.

Lukas Berger · 04-14-2016, 02:21 PM

To upload your files, just follow the instructions in this thread. Thanks!

voxpoptart · 04-14-2016, 11:53 PM

Hi! Sorry -- Lukasberger's kindly been helping me figure out how to FTP the files to you. I've successfully found and compressed them into a ZIP. He admits he's never FTP'd from a Mac and I haven't either. He sent me the following instructions he found on the web, which I've tried to follow:

Quote:

"Double-click the Cyberduck icon. When Cyberduck opens, at the upper left, click Open Connection...; alternatively, from the File menu, select Open Connection....
At the top of the sheet that appears, from the drop-down menu, select SFTP (SSH File Transfer Protocol).
In the "Server:" field, type the address of the remote host to which you wish to connect (e.g., mercury.uits.indiana.edu).
In the "Username:" and "Password:" fields, type your username and passphrase for the remote computer. To save your password to the Keychain, check Add to Keychain.
To log into a directory other than your home directory, at the bottom of the sheet, click More Options. In the "Path:" field, type the directory name (e.g., www).
Click Connect to open the SFTP connection.
Note: The first time you connect to a host, Cyberduck will display a warning such as "Unknown host key for server.uits.indiana.edu". Click Allow to continue.

A window will open displaying the list of files on the remote host. To upload files or folders, drag them from a Finder window into the Cyberduck window. To download files or folders, drag them from Cyberduck into a Finder window."

Unfortunately, when I try to drag the ZIP files into Cyberduck (at least while I'm anonymous), my computer informs me "Operation is not permitted". And I'm not clear what username and password I'd use; it's not, for example, my forum username and password (I tried).

Anyone else have an idea?

****
It's three teams out of 20 demoting good regulars in favor of bench players they don't use at all, btw: I just realized Hobart did that to their third baseman. In all three cases, if you promote the demoted regular by hand, the team's manager instantly puts the player back into the lineup. And two teams, Sydney and Geelong, insistently promoting completely unready teenagers to play full-time -- which might be a related or entirely separate issue.

Matt Arnold · 04-15-2016, 09:15 AM

Well, promotions and demotions are done by the GM, but lineup decisions are done my the manager, so they might have drastic differences in value.

For example, if I play GM-ONLY and my coach keeps playing a guy I don't like, I might demote him to prevent my manager from playing him.

voxpoptart · 04-15-2016, 11:02 AM

Matt: I wondered about that, but it's still pretty clearly an error in the game's logic, I think (and I'm not convinced it's a bug, for that reason). Demoting a .300-hitting center fielder with three Gold Gloves in the last four years, and calling up someone to sit on the bench, might seem to the GM like a fair evaluation of talent, but to actually do it would be an organization-destroying level of mutual mistrust behavior.

**************
(My AI settings are 15% Ratings, 40% Current Year, 27% Previous Year, 18% 2 Years Ago. The player in this example, Joel Glasson, isn't *really* a .300-quality hitter and he has no power, but he's been worth 2+ WAR every season. He keeps being demoted for guys who are hitting poorly in AAA -- or, currently, a guy who's hitting decently in AA.

The other good regulars being treated this way are also Gold Glove winners with okay bats. Maybe this is meaningful! But they're better hitters, as well as fielders, than the people they're demoted for, and they're having good years at the plate as well.)

04-10-2016, 09:41 PM	#1
voxpoptart Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 387	a few semi-subjective questions about 17 vs 16 Hi! I love OOTP16 -- it's a brilliant simulation -- but I'm financially not in a position to just automatically buy the new version the moment it's released. So to those of you who've developed or played it, I wonder whether or OOTP17 is less prone to certain small flaws in prior versions that have frustrated me. 1. Is there a drastic reduction in the frequency with which teams will trade prospects for veterans whom it then doesn't even insert into its lineups or rotation? 2. Have Rebuilding teams stopped trading away 25- and 26-year-old stars with years (or in my no-free-agents league, infinity) of team control left? 3. Is there substantial improvement in how teams will align their fielders to get players in the best positions for them? 4. Is there substantial reduction in the number of times a team will realign their players for no especially good or bad reason? By this I mean, for two examples of many, the current case where Exmouth wants to play reliably All-Star center fielder Kane Brigatti at first base, and all-star first baseman Damian Mossop in center field. And Melbourne is switching DH Maximilian Flon to center field, and reigning three-time MVP center fielder Elimilton Gaona to left field. Neither set of moves is a good or bad decision in terms of fielding quality, but they're not switches a real team would do without a fantastically good reason. 5. Is there substantial reduction in the number of weird cases where a team will demote a solid regular to AAA, and promote someone it then puts on the bench -- even though, if you manually return the demoted regular to the majors, it will immediately reinsert the player in the lineup? (Only to demote him the next day and restart the cycle?) 6. Has the game allowed more room for players in their late 20s to occasionally Find Themselves and dramatically improve, a la Jose Bautista, J.D. Martinez, Dallas Keuchel, or Jake Arrieta? (Without, that is, turning random change frequency way up? That does things to young players I don't like.) Any of those, if true, would be delightful news. What do y'all think? Have any happened? Have any clearly not happened? Last edited by voxpoptart; 04-10-2016 at 09:46 PM.

04-13-2016, 02:26 AM	#4
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Never seen 5 ever in any league or version. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

04-13-2016, 02:48 AM	#6
voxpoptart Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 387	Sure. How do I do post league files? I have a 20-team league in which two teams demote their (good) regular CFs every day -- I keep re-setting it, they keep repeating the demotions. Also, a third team insistently demotes their (mediocre but serviceable) regular SS in favor of an 18-year-old, admittedly with 5-star potential, who's awful at fielding the position and is still working on how to hit AAA pitching, let alone the majors. Last edited by voxpoptart; 04-13-2016 at 02:50 AM.

04-15-2016, 11:02 AM	#10
voxpoptart Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 387	Matt: I wondered about that, but it's still pretty clearly an error in the game's logic, I think (and I'm not convinced it's a bug, for that reason). Demoting a .300-hitting center fielder with three Gold Gloves in the last four years, and calling up someone to sit on the bench, might seem to the GM like a fair evaluation of talent, but to actually do it would be an organization-destroying level of mutual mistrust behavior. ************** (My AI settings are 15% Ratings, 40% Current Year, 27% Previous Year, 18% 2 Years Ago. The player in this example, Joel Glasson, isn't really a .300-quality hitter and he has no power, but he's been worth 2+ WAR every season. He keeps being demoted for guys who are hitting poorly in AAA -- or, currently, a guy who's hitting decently in AA. The other good regulars being treated this way are also Gold Glove winners with okay bats. Maybe this is meaningful! But they're better hitters, as well as fielders, than the people they're demoted for, and they're having good years at the plate as well.) Last edited by voxpoptart; 04-15-2016 at 11:10 AM.

04-10-2016, 10:19 PM	#2
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,507	1. Not drastic, but there's a reduction. 2. No, but it's much harder to get those kinds of players. 3. Markus has said he's working on it. 4. See #3. 5. From what I've seen it's worse than in 16, but this may be my league settings. 6. Yes.

04-13-2016, 01:39 AM	#3
voxpoptart Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 387	Thanks so much! I think I'll ask again after the next update -- as positive as most of that sounds, I really dislike the bizarre demotions of good regulars to AAA. Maybe in one more patch the balance will be obviously, irrefutably favorable.

04-14-2016, 02:21 PM	#7
Lukas Berger OOTP Developments Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Nice, Côte d'Azur, France Posts: 21,364	To upload your files, just follow the instructions in this thread. Thanks!

04-15-2016, 09:15 AM	#9
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,848	Well, promotions and demotions are done by the GM, but lineup decisions are done my the manager, so they might have drastic differences in value. For example, if I play GM-ONLY and my coach keeps playing a guy I don't like, I might demote him to prevent my manager from playing him.