Where's Ernie?

frangipard · 06-13-2016, 03:13 AM

So I started a historical game in 1951. I turned off the draft, because there was no draft in 1951, and I checked "automatically import historical rookies."

By 1954, I'm looking for Ernie Banks playing for the Cubs, and Hank Aaron for the Milwaukee Braves ... but they aren't there. What happened?

BigRed75 · 06-13-2016, 04:19 AM

Perhaps they're toiling in the minor leagues? Do a specific search for each of their names and see if they're in the game but not on the big league roster.

David Watts · 06-13-2016, 09:21 AM

I hope they aren't hanging with Lou Gehrig

I know he disappears off the OOTP planet when you start with historical minors back in his day. Maybe since most of the historical minors players are puss on wheels, or in some cases zombies they are eating all the future hall of famers. UGH!

frangipard · 06-13-2016, 02:19 PM

Okay, did some more fiddling with this and I think I've figured this out, and Banks is now appearing in 1953 (though not late in the year as he should).

Kind of bummed that players do not appear in the minors -- Aaron first appears in the majors in 1954, instead of in Class C Eau Claire in 1952 -- but I understand that's a lot to ask in this, the first year of Historical Minor Leagues.

This is my first real time trying to play more than a single year with historical, and I'm kind of uncertain how I should set this up. On the one hand, I want most careers to unfold pretty much the way they did in real life; but on the other hand, for me the whole goal is to, in a certain sense, rewrite history and get better results.

In some of my tests, I set it up to use the player development engine, because to my mind having the game recalc every year means I know in advance how good everyone is going to be, and that makes a multi-year game too easy .... but then I wound up with guys I never heard of, who IRL were in the low minors in my start year (1951), and never made the majors hitting .350 for Brooklyn while Duke Snider becomes a part-time player ... and that's not what I want, either.

I also let teams trade players ... and the Yankees traded DiMaggio to Cleveland. That ain't right, neither.

What are other people's thoughts on this? I'm sure others have faced this quandry.

As of now, this is my thinking: I will do recalc, and just honor-system myself into not making cheat trades. Moreover, I will not allow trades -- there weren't many in the 1950s, anyway -- and I will just manually do the ones that did happen IRL via commissioner mode. ... except for a period during the offseason, probably right around the winter meetings, where I will enable trading and what happens, happens. Two or three reality-distorting trades a year is ok. Moreover, I will enable "international free agency" ... except that most of the players will in fact that come from the US. This way I will have a small but steady stream of players entering my universe that weren't there IRL, and will slowly, gradually, change things.

Any thoughts?

swampdragon · 06-13-2016, 03:08 PM

I use recalc. When it's available (which it's not with the minors), I use historical transactions and lineups.

Edit: It certainly looks like Aaron should be in Eau Claire in 1952. He's in BB Reference there, and he didn't play for any other teams. Is Eau Claire in the game?

Spritze · 06-13-2016, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frangipard

Kind of bummed that players do not appear in the minors -- Aaron first appears in the majors in 1954, instead of in Class C Eau Claire in 1952 -- but I understand that's a lot to ask in this, the first year of Historical Minor Leagues.

Use Recalc and Development together. This combo adds the variety you are looking for.

I made a test league and Aaron, Mays, Banks, Snider, Mantle, Ashburn all appear in the minors as they should but often not for long and they get promoted to higher leagues fast. You may not find Aaron in Eau Clare in 1952 but he will be in the Braves system somewhere. In my test he was promoted to AA Hartford from A Eau Claire instantly.

David Watts · 06-13-2016, 03:32 PM

I like to use recalc, but I keep player development on as well. I find this allows for surprises when it comes to players that run out of recalc years. For example, in a random debut I played, Clayton Kershaw pitched his entire career like a hall of fame pitcher, while David Price declined quickly following his final recalc season.

swampdragon · 06-13-2016, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Use Recalc and Development together. This combo adds the variety you are looking for.

I made a test league and Aaron, Mays, Banks, Snider, Mantle, Ashburn all appear in the minors as they should but often not for long and they get promoted to higher leagues fast. You may not find Aaron in Eau Clare in 1952 but he will be in the Braves system somewhere.

I'd temporarily forgotten about that. It has been my experience that the best of the minor leaguers get promoted during the game creation process. He was too good to be in Class C, so up he went.

frangipard · 06-13-2016, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Use Recalc and Development together. This combo adds the variety you are looking for.

Cool.

Quote:

I made a test league and Aaron, Mays, Banks, Snider, Mantle, Ashburn all appear in the minors as they should but often not for long and they get promoted to higher leagues fast. You may not find Aaron in Eau Clare in 1952 but he will be in the Braves system somewhere. In my test he was promoted to AA Hartford from A Eau Claire instantly.

In mine he's not in the minors at all; he appears fully formed (as if from the brow of Zeus...) in Milwaukee in the spring of 1954.

Is this because I have "automatically import historical rookies" checked?

Or "allow ghost players" in the minors? If I don't check that, the game is unplayable after one year, as all the low-minors rosters are empty.

Please tell me exactly how you set a game up to get this result, because I've tried about six times and can't do it.

Also, I assume that checking " players miss years" is in there to take care of military situations ... will it affect things like Ted Williams in 53-54, where he left and came back in midseason?

Spritze · 06-13-2016, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frangipard

Is this because I have "automatically import historical rookies" checked? No

Or "allow ghost players" in the minors? No

Please tell me exactly how you set a game up to get this result, because I've tried about six times and can't do it.

Also, I assume that checking " players miss years" is in there to take care of military situations ... will it affect things like Ted Williams in 53-54, where he left and came back in midseason? No, he must miss the entire year

It is a bug I think.

For instance scouting craters Lou Gehrig's Current ratings on 1/1 after he is drafted #1 overall on 12/15. His Potentials remain high. He then gets released even with high potentials.

I tested this again in a different year and it happens to Ernie Banks too. Maybe H. Aaron sometimes as well?

Potential does not always seem to count for much.

frangipard · 06-14-2016, 12:39 PM

Well, that's that, then. I'll just let them debut in the majors and live with it. Thanks.

RANGER11JP · 06-25-2016, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

It is a bug I think.

For instance scouting craters Lou Gehrig's Current ratings on 1/1 after he is drafted #1 overall on 12/15. His Potentials remain high. He then gets released even with high potentials.

I tested this again in a different year and it happens to Ernie Banks too. Maybe H. Aaron sometimes as well?

Potential does not always seem to count for much.

Spritze,

In your expert opinion, can this be corrected?

Spritze · 06-25-2016, 10:36 AM

Of course, but as it stands this is not reproducible by OOTP bug fixers so it may be a setting on the Rules page that causes it. My guess would be to turn Secondary rosters off or make them larger or something along those lines.

06-13-2016, 04:19 AM	#2
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,430	Perhaps they're toiling in the minor leagues? Do a specific search for each of their names and see if they're in the game but not on the big league roster. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

06-13-2016, 03:08 PM	#5
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	I use recalc. When it's available (which it's not with the minors), I use historical transactions and lineups. Edit: It certainly looks like Aaron should be in Eau Claire in 1952. He's in BB Reference there, and he didn't play for any other teams. Is Eau Claire in the game? __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis Last edited by swampdragon; 06-13-2016 at 03:16 PM.

06-25-2016, 10:36 AM	#13
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Of course, but as it stands this is not reproducible by OOTP bug fixers so it may be a setting on the Rules page that causes it. My guess would be to turn Secondary rosters off or make them larger or something along those lines. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-13-2016, 03:13 AM	#1
frangipard OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 750	Where's Ernie? So I started a historical game in 1951. I turned off the draft, because there was no draft in 1951, and I checked "automatically import historical rookies." By 1954, I'm looking for Ernie Banks playing for the Cubs, and Hank Aaron for the Milwaukee Braves ... but they aren't there. What happened?

06-13-2016, 09:21 AM	#3
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,852 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I hope they aren't hanging with Lou Gehrig I know he disappears off the OOTP planet when you start with historical minors back in his day. Maybe since most of the historical minors players are puss on wheels, or in some cases zombies they are eating all the future hall of famers. UGH!

06-13-2016, 02:19 PM	#4
frangipard OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 750	Okay, did some more fiddling with this and I think I've figured this out, and Banks is now appearing in 1953 (though not late in the year as he should). Kind of bummed that players do not appear in the minors -- Aaron first appears in the majors in 1954, instead of in Class C Eau Claire in 1952 -- but I understand that's a lot to ask in this, the first year of Historical Minor Leagues. This is my first real time trying to play more than a single year with historical, and I'm kind of uncertain how I should set this up. On the one hand, I want most careers to unfold pretty much the way they did in real life; but on the other hand, for me the whole goal is to, in a certain sense, rewrite history and get better results. In some of my tests, I set it up to use the player development engine, because to my mind having the game recalc every year means I know in advance how good everyone is going to be, and that makes a multi-year game too easy .... but then I wound up with guys I never heard of, who IRL were in the low minors in my start year (1951), and never made the majors hitting .350 for Brooklyn while Duke Snider becomes a part-time player ... and that's not what I want, either. I also let teams trade players ... and the Yankees traded DiMaggio to Cleveland. That ain't right, neither. What are other people's thoughts on this? I'm sure others have faced this quandry. As of now, this is my thinking: I will do recalc, and just honor-system myself into not making cheat trades. Moreover, I will not allow trades -- there weren't many in the 1950s, anyway -- and I will just manually do the ones that did happen IRL via commissioner mode. ... except for a period during the offseason, probably right around the winter meetings, where I will enable trading and what happens, happens. Two or three reality-distorting trades a year is ok. Moreover, I will enable "international free agency" ... except that most of the players will in fact that come from the US. This way I will have a small but steady stream of players entering my universe that weren't there IRL, and will slowly, gradually, change things. Any thoughts?

06-13-2016, 03:32 PM	#7
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,852 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I like to use recalc, but I keep player development on as well. I find this allows for surprises when it comes to players that run out of recalc years. For example, in a random debut I played, Clayton Kershaw pitched his entire career like a hall of fame pitcher, while David Price declined quickly following his final recalc season.

06-14-2016, 12:39 PM	#11
frangipard OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 750	Well, that's that, then. I'll just let them debut in the majors and live with it. Thanks.