Federal League 1915 season

fedfan · 06-27-2020, 04:47 AM

I'm a relative newcomer hoping to simulate the 1915 Federal League season on OOTP20, but I see that the rosters are not precisely accurate. The Chicago Whales are missing their starting first baseman (as verified on Baseball Reference). The Baltimore Terrapins are missing two-thirds of their starting outfield. I suspect the other six teams feature similar roster anomalies.

I'd like to replay this season because it is the closest major-league season finish ever: The third-place team finished a half-game out of first! But clearly, if teams are missing integral portions of their lineups, a replay is pointless.

Am I missing something here? OOTP seems like a wonderfully thought-out game, so these small sorts of omissions come as a surprise. Perhaps there's a workaround somewhere. Anybody have any info/suggestions?

thehef · 06-27-2020, 06:15 AM

Did you start your game with the 1915 season or did you start earlier and then want to jump in with the Fed League in 1915?

Asking because I just created a test league starting with the 1915 season, and I don't find any of the example-issues you've described:

- Fred Beck (1B) is on Chicago
- Vern Duncan, Jack McCandless, and Guy Zinn (OF's) are all on Baltimore (Steve Evans is on Brooklyn, where he started the 1915 season)

If, however, you start prior to the 1915 season, then you're not going to see the historical rosters that you'd expect. Here's why:

- In order to be able to get the Federal League into OOTP, it was added when minor leagues were added, and therefore is treated as a minor league.
- Historical transactions do not (yet) apply to minor leagues in OOTP. They may apply to minor league players who eventually make the majors, but strictly speaking, minor league rosters are not directly affected by historical transactions.
- Therefore, once you get to 1914 and the Federal League is introduced, only players who made their professional debut in the Fed Lg will appear on the correct team (they will import into OOTP onto their correct team).
- At that point, the Fed Lg - as a "minor" league in OOTP - does not use historical transactions, so - other than players who imported to a Fed Lg team - Fed Lg rosters will be made up of players acquired via fictional transactions (free agent signings and - depending up on your settings - trades).
- So by the time you get to the Fed Lg's 2nd season - 1915 - the roster makeup is really going to be a scramble. Pretty much the only FL players you'd expect to see on historically-correct rosters would be ones who 1) imported into OOTP onto a FL team for the 1914 season, 2) remained on that same team (historically) for 1915, and 3) did not get (fictionally) released or traded in OOTP prior to the 1915 season.

Given all of that, if you started your sim with the 1914 season, you would expect to have somewhat similar-to-real-life FL rosters for the 1915 season, with some of the exceptions you noted. If, however, you started prior to 1914, by the time you get to 1915, your FL rosters won't look at all like they did in real life.

NOTE: There may be some details that I've misstated or misinterpreted. What OOTP does in regards to historical transactions, minor leagues, etc., can be a bit murky. Refer to Steve Evans above. In real life he moved - at some point during the season (the actual type of his transaction - trade, release & sign? - nor the date is known). OOTP uses 6/30/15 for the date of this transaction. However, in my test league that began with the 1915 season:

- Evans imported to FL's Brooklyn Terrapins, as he should, and remained with the team, playing in nearly all of their games
- On 6/30/15, he was no longer a member of Brooklyn and is instead a free agent. His History page does not say if he was released or what (I'm not sure if this is an OOTP "thing" or if it has to do with some setting I have that doesn't track all minor league happenings...)
- Despite the historical transactions file indicating that Evans is "obtained" by Baltimore from Brooklyn, this transaction does not happen because, as noted above, OOTP does not do historical transactions for minor leagues (and, again, the Fed Lg is a minor league in OOTP).

At any rate, the best way for you to accomplish replaying the 1915 Federal League season with accurate historical rosters is to begin your game with the 1915 season, where you will have very accurate opening FL rosters. Make sure you create this league with historical transactions enabled, and then look at the list of historical transactions that were loaded for 1915 (go to your MLB menu, select Transactions from the dropdown, and then select the Historical Transactions tab), and then note the Fed Lg transactions - or at least the important ones (to you) and make those manually as your season progresses. (You will need to use OOTP's in-game list of historical transactions; neither baseballreference nor retrosheet have complete-enough transactions for the FL.)

Someone else may have a better suggestion but that's the best I can come up with.

Good luck!

fedfan · 06-27-2020, 06:58 PM

Wow. Thanks so much for the quick, detailed response!

I thought I was starting the game with the 1915 season, using neither real-life lineups or transactions. But the rosters I see do not include Beck or the Terrapins’ outfielders. For example, Rollie Zeider, not Beck, is installed at first for the Whales, and Beck’s name is listed as a pitcher. (Apparently, Beck pitched a couple of games in the PCL in 1908.)

I’m trying to run a simple, one-year simulation in which players who played for more than one FL team during the season are assigned to the team for which he had the most at bats or innings pitched. Your Steve Evans explanation is instructive. OOTP wants to place him with Brooklyn because that’s where he started the season. I want him in Baltimore because that’s where he played the majority of the season.

Perhaps I am asking more of OOTP than it can deliver, but I suspect that if I could get the league optimized to the point where Beck appears at first for the Whales, I’d be pretty happy. Could you please share the settings you used to obtain those results?

And if I need to tweak rosters slightly, can I do that in a historical league?

italyprof · 06-27-2020, 08:39 PM

If you are playing as Commissioner, you can make trades happen and force them. So you could get the players you want on the rosters by having them trade for them I think.

David Watts · 06-28-2020, 11:57 AM

One thing to keep in mind is real transactions/real lineups don't work when using historical minors (Federal League is under the historical minors umbrella. I'm not sure if there would be a way to make sure Federal League guys don't leave for the MLB during play.

thehef · 06-28-2020, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

One thing to keep in mind is real transactions/real lineups don't work when using historical minors (Federal League is under the historical minors umbrella. I'm not sure if there would be a way to make sure Federal League guys don't leave for the MLB during play.

I'm thinking that if he starts off with the historical game & import like I described above, then goes in and make the changes he needs to get the players on the teams that he wants (like the Steve Evans example), and then goes in checks the Prevent any AI roster changes box (team Settings page), goes to the Rules page and unchecks Allow players on unaffiliated teams to be purchased by major leagues, it'll work.

fedfan - If you do this, once you've got your rosters all set, remember to make a backup copy of your game, just in case things go haywire. That way you won't have to re-do all of your roster moves.

Note, however, that I think by preventing roster changes, you'll lock each team into batting orders, pitching rotations, and substitution patterns, as well as players into roles. IOW, AI won't make changes to those as the season evolves. It may also prevent AI from calling up a player to replace an injured or poorly performing player, etc. I'm not 100% on how this works though... I definitely recommend testing out this scenario first

fedfan · 06-29-2020, 05:31 AM

You guys are great!

OK, thehef, I think I follow you, and I'm gonna give it a shot: Tweak my rosters, adjust the settings as you suggest, make a copy and let it roll.

I still don't understand my roster issues previously mentioned. I might have corrupted databases (user error). I'm thinking of deleting all my games and starting anew. Just trying to get poor Fred Beck into the Whales' lineup (batting about eighth from what I can see thus far).

thehef · 06-29-2020, 08:50 PM

Good luck!!!

fedfan · 07-17-2020, 04:48 PM

Back again with another question about setting up my desired 1915 Federal League simulation. A database tweak gave me access to much improved FL rosters, but I'd like to implement a few targeted trades to optimize my personnel.

Unfortunately, it appears--and this is just my guess--that because OOTP treats the Federal League as a "minor" league, trades are not allowed, even though I have elevated the FL to major-league status. When I click Player Trade on a team Roster & Transactions tab, I get this message: "You do not manage a team or your league does not allow trading!" I get the same response when I try to have my manager, set to control all teams, try to initiate a trade using the "act as" feature.

Is there another way to address this? I'm sure it doesn't take most OOTP players as long to set up their games as this one is taking me, but I can't seem to get it quite right.

Thanks!

thehef · 07-18-2020, 12:28 AM

By "trades" are you simply trying to get players on the teams you want them on as if the trades actually happened? If so, then you can either edit the players to be on the teams that you want them to be on, or you could release the player from Team A and have Team B sign him. I think there are ways to force trades (if you are in commissioner mode and follow a few other steps), but I am not as familiar with that process.

Bottom line is that there are definitely ways around this. But you might have to experiment a little bit...

Actually, I just created a test league:
- started with 1915 to include minors (so I'd get the Fed Lg), commissioner mode
- on the League & Teams page, I changed the Fed Lg to League Level = Major League, and Parent League = not affiliated
- on the Rules page for both MLB and FL leagues, I checked the Enable Trading box

At that point, acting as the Boston Red Sox, I was able to trade Babe Ruth to the Baltimore Terrapins in exchange for some chump. No problem.

Give it a shot!

06-27-2020, 04:47 AM	#1
fedfan Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 8	Federal League 1915 season I'm a relative newcomer hoping to simulate the 1915 Federal League season on OOTP20, but I see that the rosters are not precisely accurate. The Chicago Whales are missing their starting first baseman (as verified on Baseball Reference). The Baltimore Terrapins are missing two-thirds of their starting outfield. I suspect the other six teams feature similar roster anomalies. I'd like to replay this season because it is the closest major-league season finish ever: The third-place team finished a half-game out of first! But clearly, if teams are missing integral portions of their lineups, a replay is pointless. Am I missing something here? OOTP seems like a wonderfully thought-out game, so these small sorts of omissions come as a surprise. Perhaps there's a workaround somewhere. Anybody have any info/suggestions?

06-27-2020, 06:15 AM	#2
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	Did you start your game with the 1915 season or did you start earlier and then want to jump in with the Fed League in 1915? Asking because I just created a test league starting with the 1915 season, and I don't find any of the example-issues you've described: - Fred Beck (1B) is on Chicago - Vern Duncan, Jack McCandless, and Guy Zinn (OF's) are all on Baltimore (Steve Evans is on Brooklyn, where he started the 1915 season) If, however, you start prior to the 1915 season, then you're not going to see the historical rosters that you'd expect. Here's why: - In order to be able to get the Federal League into OOTP, it was added when minor leagues were added, and therefore is treated as a minor league. - Historical transactions do not (yet) apply to minor leagues in OOTP. They may apply to minor league players who eventually make the majors, but strictly speaking, minor league rosters are not directly affected by historical transactions. - Therefore, once you get to 1914 and the Federal League is introduced, only players who made their professional debut in the Fed Lg will appear on the correct team (they will import into OOTP onto their correct team). - At that point, the Fed Lg - as a "minor" league in OOTP - does not use historical transactions, so - other than players who imported to a Fed Lg team - Fed Lg rosters will be made up of players acquired via fictional transactions (free agent signings and - depending up on your settings - trades). - So by the time you get to the Fed Lg's 2nd season - 1915 - the roster makeup is really going to be a scramble. Pretty much the only FL players you'd expect to see on historically-correct rosters would be ones who 1) imported into OOTP onto a FL team for the 1914 season, 2) remained on that same team (historically) for 1915, and 3) did not get (fictionally) released or traded in OOTP prior to the 1915 season. Given all of that, if you started your sim with the 1914 season, you would expect to have somewhat similar-to-real-life FL rosters for the 1915 season, with some of the exceptions you noted. If, however, you started prior to 1914, by the time you get to 1915, your FL rosters won't look at all like they did in real life. NOTE: There may be some details that I've misstated or misinterpreted. What OOTP does in regards to historical transactions, minor leagues, etc., can be a bit murky. Refer to Steve Evans above. In real life he moved - at some point during the season (the actual type of his transaction - trade, release & sign? - nor the date is known). OOTP uses 6/30/15 for the date of this transaction. However, in my test league that began with the 1915 season: - Evans imported to FL's Brooklyn Terrapins, as he should, and remained with the team, playing in nearly all of their games - On 6/30/15, he was no longer a member of Brooklyn and is instead a free agent. His History page does not say if he was released or what (I'm not sure if this is an OOTP "thing" or if it has to do with some setting I have that doesn't track all minor league happenings...) - Despite the historical transactions file indicating that Evans is "obtained" by Baltimore from Brooklyn, this transaction does not happen because, as noted above, OOTP does not do historical transactions for minor leagues (and, again, the Fed Lg is a minor league in OOTP). At any rate, the best way for you to accomplish replaying the 1915 Federal League season with accurate historical rosters is to begin your game with the 1915 season, where you will have very accurate opening FL rosters. Make sure you create this league with historical transactions enabled, and then look at the list of historical transactions that were loaded for 1915 (go to your MLB menu, select Transactions from the dropdown, and then select the Historical Transactions tab), and then note the Fed Lg transactions - or at least the important ones (to you) and make those manually as your season progresses. (You will need to use OOTP's in-game list of historical transactions; neither baseballreference nor retrosheet have complete-enough transactions for the FL.) Someone else may have a better suggestion but that's the best I can come up with. Good luck! Last edited by thehef; 06-27-2020 at 06:16 AM.

06-29-2020, 05:31 AM	#7
fedfan Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 8	Federal League 1915 season You guys are great! OK, thehef, I think I follow you, and I'm gonna give it a shot: Tweak my rosters, adjust the settings as you suggest, make a copy and let it roll. I still don't understand my roster issues previously mentioned. I might have corrupted databases (user error). I'm thinking of deleting all my games and starting anew. Just trying to get poor Fred Beck into the Whales' lineup (batting about eighth from what I can see thus far).

07-17-2020, 04:48 PM	#9
fedfan Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 8	Federal League 1915 season Back again with another question about setting up my desired 1915 Federal League simulation. A database tweak gave me access to much improved FL rosters, but I'd like to implement a few targeted trades to optimize my personnel. Unfortunately, it appears--and this is just my guess--that because OOTP treats the Federal League as a "minor" league, trades are not allowed, even though I have elevated the FL to major-league status. When I click Player Trade on a team Roster & Transactions tab, I get this message: "You do not manage a team or your league does not allow trading!" I get the same response when I try to have my manager, set to control all teams, try to initiate a trade using the "act as" feature. Is there another way to address this? I'm sure it doesn't take most OOTP players as long to set up their games as this one is taking me, but I can't seem to get it quite right. Thanks!

06-27-2020, 06:58 PM	#3
fedfan Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 8	Wow. Thanks so much for the quick, detailed response! I thought I was starting the game with the 1915 season, using neither real-life lineups or transactions. But the rosters I see do not include Beck or the Terrapins’ outfielders. For example, Rollie Zeider, not Beck, is installed at first for the Whales, and Beck’s name is listed as a pitcher. (Apparently, Beck pitched a couple of games in the PCL in 1908.) I’m trying to run a simple, one-year simulation in which players who played for more than one FL team during the season are assigned to the team for which he had the most at bats or innings pitched. Your Steve Evans explanation is instructive. OOTP wants to place him with Brooklyn because that’s where he started the season. I want him in Baltimore because that’s where he played the majority of the season. Perhaps I am asking more of OOTP than it can deliver, but I suspect that if I could get the league optimized to the point where Beck appears at first for the Whales, I’d be pretty happy. Could you please share the settings you used to obtain those results? And if I need to tweak rosters slightly, can I do that in a historical league?

06-27-2020, 08:39 PM	#4
italyprof All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,024	If you are playing as Commissioner, you can make trades happen and force them. So you could get the players you want on the rosters by having them trade for them I think.

06-28-2020, 11:57 AM	#5
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 9,871 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	One thing to keep in mind is real transactions/real lineups don't work when using historical minors (Federal League is under the historical minors umbrella. I'm not sure if there would be a way to make sure Federal League guys don't leave for the MLB during play.

06-29-2020, 08:50 PM	#8
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	Good luck!!!

07-18-2020, 12:28 AM	#10
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	By "trades" are you simply trying to get players on the teams you want them on as if the trades actually happened? If so, then you can either edit the players to be on the teams that you want them to be on, or you could release the player from Team A and have Team B sign him. I think there are ways to force trades (if you are in commissioner mode and follow a few other steps), but I am not as familiar with that process. Bottom line is that there are definitely ways around this. But you might have to experiment a little bit... Actually, I just created a test league: - started with 1915 to include minors (so I'd get the Fed Lg), commissioner mode - on the League & Teams page, I changed the Fed Lg to League Level = Major League, and Parent League = not affiliated - on the Rules page for both MLB and FL leagues, I checked the Enable Trading box At that point, acting as the Boston Red Sox, I was able to trade Babe Ruth to the Baltimore Terrapins in exchange for some chump. No problem. Give it a shot!