Batter or Pitcher

UKRedSox · 01-03-2015, 01:44 PM

Drafted this player in the last draft in the first round. Played the first season in the outfield hitting .289/.397/.405

Questions are:-

Should I develop him through the minors as a pitcher or batter?

Whichever route I choose, how quick will the other attributes decline. Guess I want to do if I want to flip to develop him in the other position what kind of cutoff point do I have until attributes decline?

Thanks for any feedback.

BIG17EASY · 01-03-2015, 01:57 PM

I would try to develop him at pitcher, simply because pitchers are harder to come by. If his velocity increases, he could be a good closer.

I can't say how fast his position ratings will decline. I don't think they'll decline so fast that if a pitching track doesn't work out that you wouldn't be able to put him back in the outfield in 3-4 years.

jpeters1734 · 01-03-2015, 02:13 PM

Ask yourself, would you rather have a .300/40 HR hitter or a bullpen guy? If he had a 3rd or 4th pitch I'd recommend following this guide, but he would be nothing more than a bullpen guy. Bullpen pitchers are easy to come by.

atlbravos · 01-03-2015, 02:36 PM

What's his work ethic / intelligence?
I agree with jpeters' assessment. He might be worth trying to develop into a closer if he has the personal attributes, otherwise I think you'll have more luck developing him as a RF and then re-assessing and using him for trade bait in the next 2-3 years if he doesn't quite fit your plan.

BIG17EASY · 01-03-2015, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Ask yourself, would you rather have a .300/40 HR hitter or a bullpen guy? If he had a 3rd or 4th pitch I'd recommend following this guide, but he would be nothing more than a bullpen guy. Bullpen pitchers are easy to come by.

With all due respect, a reliever with 80 stuff and 75 control is more than a "bullpen guy." That's the making of an elite closer (or however one choses to use the best reliever), which aren't easy to come by.

Considering the stamina, the OP could use the guide you linked to. Minor league pitchers can succeed and develop with two pitches. That way, he can see if the guy adds a third pitch -- which would make him a legit candidate to start in the majors -- or shows he's an elite reliever while also assessing his offensive abilities.

Bluenoser · 01-03-2015, 02:53 PM

No disrespect, but I'm just curious as to how you're so sure good pitching is scarce in his league?

BIG17EASY · 01-03-2015, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

No disrespect, but I'm just curious as to how you're so sure good pitching is scarce in his league?

I'm not sure. If it's not, then he's free to disregard my advice. My belief is that the kid is 18, give him three years as a pitcher (or a dual player following the link jpeters posted) to see what he can do. If he doesn't become what the OP considers extremely valuable on the mound, he can move him back to OF at age 21 and still have himself a pretty darn good outfielder by the time the player is 24-25.

EDIT TO ADD: If his league has a wide array of relievers with 80 stuff and 75 control, I'd wager a guess that some modifiers have been adjusted from the default (assuming he's playing the MLB quickstart or a regular MLB-style league.

Bluenoser · 01-03-2015, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I'm not sure. If it's not, then he's free to disregard my advice. My belief is that the kid is 18, give him three years as a pitcher (or a dual player following the link jpeters posted) to see what he can do. If he doesn't become what the OP considers extremely valuable on the mound, he can move him back to OF at age 21 and still have himself a pretty darn good outfielder by the time the player is 24-25.

EDIT TO ADD: If his league has a wide array of relievers with 80 stuff and 75 control, I'd wager a guess that some modifiers have been adjusted from the default (assuming he's playing the MLB quickstart or a regular MLB-style league.

Thanks - and btw, I agree with your advice about trying him both ways. Whether the league is pitching rich, hitting rich, or mostly balanced, you can never have enough of a good thing. He may only develop 1 way, but it's a risk worth taking at an early age.

DustinthePOWERHOUSE · 01-03-2015, 03:31 PM

I don't see it. I wouldn't bother with him as a pitcher, seeing as his batting potential makes him potentially a pretty damn good hitter and his pitching just simply doesn't reflect that.

He's vastly more valuable and potentially a vastly better player as a hitter determined by his ratings. I think the pitching ratings are mostly for a reliever/closer which are easier to find/develop. Why not see what this guy can do as a hitter than switch him over later if it doesn't work out.

I say stick with the hitting. A .300/30 hitter is just too good to pass up.

UKRedSox · 01-03-2015, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlbravos

What's his work ethic / intelligence?
I agree with jpeters' assessment. He might be worth trying to develop into a closer if he has the personal attributes, otherwise I think you'll have more luck developing him as a RF and then re-assessing and using him for trade bait in the next 2-3 years if he doesn't quite fit your plan.

Work Ethic = high

Intelligence = normal

UKRedSox · 01-03-2015, 03:37 PM

Thanks for all the replies, I am very interested in the two way training mentioned above.

This player is in one of my online leagues (Giants) and is a daily sim so I can really micro - manage appearances

BIG17EASY · 01-03-2015, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKRedSox

Work Ethic = high

Intelligence = normal

Even more reason to try out the dual player system. Considering your sim works daily, it'll be quite easy to do.

jpeters1734 · 01-03-2015, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

With all due respect, a reliever with 80 stuff and 75 control is more than a "bullpen guy." That's the making of an elite closer (or however one choses to use the best reliever), which aren't easy to come by.

Considering the stamina, the OP could use the guide you linked to. Minor league pitchers can succeed and develop with two pitches. That way, he can see if the guy adds a third pitch -- which would make him a legit candidate to start in the majors -- or shows he's an elite reliever while also assessing his offensive abilities.

Fair enough. Though, imo, I'd hate to see a batter with such a rare skill set have his development stunted by a failed experiment. I just feel that a player that plays 140+ games with .300/35-40 HRs is much more valuable than even an elite closer. If he does add a third pitch, he still would be only be maybe a 3 or 4 guy. it's just what I would do. I would be interested to see how this guys handles pitching and hitting duties.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKRedSox

Thanks for all the replies, I am very interested in the two way training mentioned above.

This player is in one of my online leagues (Giants) and is a daily sim so I can really mirco - manage appearances

If you do it, I'd love a periodic update

DustinthePOWERHOUSE · 01-03-2015, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Even more reason to try out the dual player system. Considering your sim works daily, it'll be quite easy to do.

See I disagree with this why waste his development when you can focus on one thing. Development is hit or miss anyway why take the risk?

Especially when one development vastly outweighs the other one it seems silly to spend time on the pitching.If he had potential as a front line starter or even 3/4 starter caliber then I'd see why it might be worth it, but he's a reliever at best.

BIG17EASY · 01-03-2015, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustinthePOWERHOUSE

See I disagree with this why waste his development when you can focus on one thing. Development is hit or miss anyway why take the risk?

Especially when one development vastly outweighs the other one it seems silly to spend time on the pitching.If he had potential as a front line starter or even 3/4 starter caliber then I'd see why it might be worth it, but he's a reliever at best.

Have you used the dual player system? In my experience, it doesn't hinder the player's development in either role. Done properly, he'll get 400-plus at bats and 120-140 innings per season and continue to develop properly in both roles.

And I disagree that one "development" vastly outweighs the other, but I appear to be in the minority in valuing pitching as high as I do.

DustinthePOWERHOUSE · 01-03-2015, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Have you used the dual player system? In my experience, it doesn't hinder the player's development in either role. Done properly, he'll get 400-plus at bats and 120-140 innings per season and continue to develop properly in both roles.

And I disagree that one "development" vastly outweighs the other, but I appear to be in the minority in valuing pitching as high as I do.

See my concern isn't whether you can properly make time for it the divide sounds fine. But in addition to how long it takes for someone to develop normally, with a certain number of at bats this will logically take even more time for this particular player. As well as the extra fatigue, and extra amount of hitting/pitching which could in turn cause more potential for injury.

I also don't think this has anything to do with how you value pitching. Pitching is important, and I think you probably value that properly, but I just don't see it with this guy what you're so enthralled with.

He's a two pitch player with great stamina, but very low velocity. He may be a long relief guy, but I don't see why I would favor that over a .300/30 guy (potentially) It just seems like a waste, development wise, to give him innings when he could be practicing at-bats and becoming a star.

SFG · 01-04-2015, 04:18 AM

Use him as a RF all the way. If he develops, that dude would be 100% legit in the big leagues. 70 contact, 60 gap, 70 power, and 55 eye is elite. Could be a MVP candidate during his peak years if things work out. He could give you a regular .300/.370/.520.

If he had a third pitch, I'd go with pitcher, but that's only a bullpen guy. Maybe 60-80 innings per year. Maybe 1-2 WAR versus the 5+ WAR you'd get out of him as a hitter.

marc5477 · 01-04-2015, 11:27 AM

Without a 3rd pitch, id go batter all the way... closer's are easy to get and they are cheap compared to other hitters. If he is in the minors, I would develop both since there is no loss. Set him as a pitcher and also place him as backup in both left & right field. Have him alternate every 2nd game in right field and every 3rd game in left field. He should develop fine this way and you might get lucky and pick up that 3rd pitch making him a starter. However, I have found that when a pitcher does not start often, he loses stamina fast so I think he will end up being a hitter no matter what.

RchW · 01-04-2015, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I would try to develop him at pitcher, simply because pitchers are harder to come by. If his velocity increases, he could be a good closer.

I can't say how fast his position ratings will decline. I don't think they'll decline so fast that if a pitching track doesn't work out that you wouldn't be able to put him back in the outfield in 3-4 years.

Batters are almost always more valuable than pitchers with certain exceptions.

marc5477 · 01-04-2015, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Batters are almost always more valuable than pitchers with certain exceptions.

I actually think its the other way around lol. I usually make pitching centered teams with great fielders. Keeps costs down too.

01-03-2015, 01:44 PM	#1
UKRedSox Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cumbria/Isle of Wight, England Posts: 416	Batter or Pitcher Drafted this player in the last draft in the first round. Played the first season in the outfield hitting .289/.397/.405 Questions are:- Should I develop him through the minors as a pitcher or batter? Whichever route I choose, how quick will the other attributes decline. Guess I want to do if I want to flip to develop him in the other position what kind of cutoff point do I have until attributes decline? Thanks for any feedback.

01-03-2015, 02:13 PM	#3
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,224	Ask yourself, would you rather have a .300/40 HR hitter or a bullpen guy? If he had a 3rd or 4th pitch I'd recommend following this guide, but he would be nothing more than a bullpen guy. Bullpen pitchers are easy to come by. __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

01-03-2015, 03:31 PM	#9
DustinthePOWERHOUSE All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 871	I don't see it. I wouldn't bother with him as a pitcher, seeing as his batting potential makes him potentially a pretty damn good hitter and his pitching just simply doesn't reflect that. He's vastly more valuable and potentially a vastly better player as a hitter determined by his ratings. I think the pitching ratings are mostly for a reliever/closer which are easier to find/develop. Why not see what this guy can do as a hitter than switch him over later if it doesn't work out. I say stick with the hitting. A .300/30 hitter is just too good to pass up. __________________ Shootin' at the walls of heartache, BANG BANG, I am THE WARRIOR! "It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am"- Ali Wladimir Klitschko will DESTROY you.

01-03-2015, 03:37 PM	#11
UKRedSox Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cumbria/Isle of Wight, England Posts: 416	Thanks for all the replies, I am very interested in the two way training mentioned above. This player is in one of my online leagues (Giants) and is a daily sim so I can really micro - manage appearances Last edited by UKRedSox; 01-03-2015 at 04:53 PM.

01-03-2015, 01:57 PM	#2
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	I would try to develop him at pitcher, simply because pitchers are harder to come by. If his velocity increases, he could be a good closer. I can't say how fast his position ratings will decline. I don't think they'll decline so fast that if a pitching track doesn't work out that you wouldn't be able to put him back in the outfield in 3-4 years.

01-03-2015, 02:36 PM	#4
atlbravos Bat Boy Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 18	What's his work ethic / intelligence? I agree with jpeters' assessment. He might be worth trying to develop into a closer if he has the personal attributes, otherwise I think you'll have more luck developing him as a RF and then re-assessing and using him for trade bait in the next 2-3 years if he doesn't quite fit your plan.

01-03-2015, 02:53 PM	#6
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,216	No disrespect, but I'm just curious as to how you're so sure good pitching is scarce in his league?

01-04-2015, 04:18 AM	#17
SFG Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 50	Use him as a RF all the way. If he develops, that dude would be 100% legit in the big leagues. 70 contact, 60 gap, 70 power, and 55 eye is elite. Could be a MVP candidate during his peak years if things work out. He could give you a regular .300/.370/.520. If he had a third pitch, I'd go with pitcher, but that's only a bullpen guy. Maybe 60-80 innings per year. Maybe 1-2 WAR versus the 5+ WAR you'd get out of him as a hitter.

01-04-2015, 11:27 AM	#18
marc5477 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 146	Without a 3rd pitch, id go batter all the way... closer's are easy to get and they are cheap compared to other hitters. If he is in the minors, I would develop both since there is no loss. Set him as a pitcher and also place him as backup in both left & right field. Have him alternate every 2nd game in right field and every 3rd game in left field. He should develop fine this way and you might get lucky and pick up that 3rd pitch making him a starter. However, I have found that when a pitcher does not start often, he loses stamina fast so I think he will end up being a hitter no matter what.