Historical and injuries

[David Watts]

How do you folks incorporate injuries into your historical sims? Historical rosters are often very limited in size, especially during the first handful of seasons. I'm getting a little burned out when it comes to random debut and really want to play some straight historical, but I always get hung up on how to go about incorporating injuries I've tried simply turning them off and using strictly fatigue, but that hasn't exactly clicked for me. I'm not a fan of players being forced into positions they didn't play in real life. I don't want to see Aurelio Rodriguez catching or Eddie Brinkman in RF.

[joefromchicago]

By default, I think most historical leagues (say, before 1990) have injury settings that range from "extremely low" to "low." Keeping those settings should do a lot to cut down on injuries.

I've mentioned elsewhere that I don't think players in the "covered wagon days" got injured any less often than players do today, they just played injured more often. When a player's entire career might hinge on whether he could show up to the ballpark that day, there was a pretty big incentive for players to suit up regardless of their physical condition. Wally Pipp, to take a famous example, woke up one morning with a stiff back and by that evening had lost his job to a kid named Lou Gehrig. So one way to duplicate the historical situation and avoid running out of players is to let players play injured instead of putting them on the injured list.

And if you haven't found it already, I recommend Satchel's historical injury mod. It doesn't change the injuries, it just changes the descriptions to give them a more historical feel. So instead of a torn meniscus, for instance, the injury report will read something like "dead arm." Highly recommended

EDIT: I just realized that OOTP changed the injury model a little while ago, so Satchel's mod can't be used without modification. So that might be an interesting project if someone were so inclined.

[Brad K]

It seems that you're referring to the limited number of subs available the first season or two. I've adopted a system of starting the game a couple of seasons before I want to start being GM so I don't have to deal with it.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Brad K

It seems that you're referring to the limited number of subs available the first season or two. I've adopted a system of starting the game a couple of seasons before I want to start being GM so I don't have to deal with it.

I've never heard of that before. Is that a problem regardless of the season that you choose as Year 1 or is it confined to certain seasons?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Brad K

It seems that you're referring to the limited number of subs available the first season or two. I've adopted a system of starting the game a couple of seasons before I want to start being GM so I don't have to deal with it.

Probably the direction I need to go. Just turn injuries off and maybe set fatigue to high or very high and run around 3 to 5 seasons. That should get the rosters populated enough to at least use low injuries if not normal.

[David Watts]

I think for right now, I'm going to try and get a full season in the books using real lineups/real transactions. I've never actually finished a season using real lineups/transactions, so it's probably time I bit the bullet. Created 1948 last night and played the first 2 days of the season so far. Just going to watch, not going to run a team.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I've never heard of that before. Is that a problem regardless of the season that you choose as Year 1 or is it confined to certain seasons?

Playing historical without historical minors what you get for the first year are players who actually played in the majors that year. If the real life team had an injured SS during the year it would call up a AAA shortstop and since that person played in the majors that year he would be in the OOTP game.

However if your injury is to an OF and the real team had no OFers injured, no one got called up and so you wouldn't have anyone to call up.

The second year you have all the historical players from that year plus players from the first year who didn't play the historical second year, plus a few who retired historically but didn't in OOTP, less a few of the opposite.

I started my current game in 1951 and let it run on its own and came in as GM in 1954.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Probably the direction I need to go. Just turn injuries off and maybe set fatigue to high or very high and run around 3 to 5 seasons. That should get the rosters populated enough to at least use low injuries if not normal.

I use default injuries whatever that is and it worked out fine with me taking a team in the 4th year.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I use default injuries whatever that is and it worked out fine with me taking a team in the 4th year.

Last night I started a league in 1901and fast simmed it to 1904. Your method works. I easily had enough players to use the low(default) setting and really wasn't too far off from being able to use normal.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Playing historical without historical minors what you get for the first year are players who actually played in the majors that year. If the real life team had an injured SS during the year it would call up a AAA shortstop and since that person played in the majors that year he would be in the OOTP game.

However if your injury is to an OF and the real team had no OFers injured, no one got called up and so you wouldn't have anyone to call up.

The second year you have all the historical players from that year plus players from the first year who didn't play the historical second year, plus a few who retired historically but didn't in OOTP, less a few of the opposite.

I started my current game in 1951 and let it run on its own and came in as GM in 1954.

Hmmm, that's interesting. I never really paid attention to that. I guess I thought that minor-league players would be dumped into the free-agent pool if you disable historical minors. I guess I was wrong

[David Watts]

A lot of my historical play issues would go away if I could figure out a way to erase all history that actually clears all history. The inability to do so, is what drives me to random debut. I like to create my very own baseball worlds, but I'm not one that enjoys fictional players.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by David Watts

A lot of my historical play issues would go away if I could figure out a way to erase all history that actually clears all history. The inability to do so, is what drives me to random debut. I like to create my very own baseball worlds, but I'm not one that enjoys fictional players.

What history doesn't clear?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Brad K

What history doesn't clear?

The easiest example I can give is using Johnny Evers.

Say I create a historical league starting in 1921. Once the league is formed, I erase all history. I now have a zeroed out career leaderboard. I play the 1921 season and proceed to January 1st of 1922. My career leaderboard will now be the Johnny Evers show. See Evers played from 1902-1917, He didn't play in 18, 19, 20 or 21. He returned in 1922 for 5 at bats. When OOTP imports Evers for the 22 season, he enters the game with all his career stats from 1902-1917. So, when everyone else has a seasons worth of stats, Evers has a full careers worth. I simply can't figure a way to avoid this. I've tried creating a league several years in advance, simming ahead and then erasing history. I always end up with a messed up leaderboard. Back prior to OOTP17, the game had a bug. That bug would cause a player to never enter your historical league if he happened to miss the season you imported to start your league. For example, if you started your league in 1907, you would never get Eddie Cicotte in your league. Eddie made his MLB debut in 1905, but didn't play again till 1908. So, since his debut was in 1905, the game treated him as if he didn't exist. This was fixed for 17, but it created the inability to erase all history.

If someone could show me the light and point me in the right direction I would be forever indebted.

[David Watts]

Well, I think I have too much What-If in me to play real lineups for very long.


I'm trying something different.

Started with the 1948 season. I turned injuries off completely. I'm using "very high" for fatigue. Pitching rotations set to 5 man "strict, occasionally start the highest rested." 3 year recalc with development on, but RTC set to only 20. The kicker is, I'm having players retire according to history. Really hoping this works. My only worries are the high fatigue and the AI not knowing which players are going to retire. Will it be able to maintain 25 man rosters with the right mix to deal with fatigue. Fingers crossed it will. I have a feeling recalc and the make bad settings will somewhat counter the lack of injuries.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by David Watts

If someone could show me the light and point me in the right direction I would be forever indebted.

I found a possible solution in an old thread from 2014. If you are in commissioner mode, you can clone a player who has been imported and then delete the original player. The cloned version will not have any history.

If this works, you are now forever indebted to Curve Ball Dave.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by David Watts

The kicker is, I'm having players retire according to history. Really hoping this works.

No margin for a variance from historical. Maybe you'll be OK with injuries set low.

[David Watts]

In some ways, playing without injuries is reminding me a lot of my years as kid playing card and dice Strat-O-Matic. Some things are rather interesting to observe. Like, the Tigers manager putting Virgil Trucks in the bullpen for a significant stretch and then reinserting him into the rotation. One of my biggest worries about playing this way is everything being set in stone. Not the case. High fatigue is interesting as well, especially when doubleheaders occur. If a player is tired and due to sit and a doubleheader arrives, the player is going to miss both games.

[David Watts]

Just made it to the all-star break 1948. Ralph Kiner is on pace to hit 60 home runs. Dude has hit 3 home runs in a game 3 times so far. The last time he hit 3 was the first game of a double header. He drove in 10 runs in the first game and 2 more in the 2nd. His line for the day, 6-9, 3 home runs, 12 rbi. He has 32 home runs at the break. Crazy thing is, at one time Kiner was around 10 home runs behind Ted Williams. He's now 6 ahead. Williams is ahead in the rbi department though, 92-85,

Boston is up 7 games in the AL over New York. Cleveland had a horrible June dropping behind the surprising Philadelphia Athletics into 4th place. In the NL, Brooklyn and Boston go into the break tied for 1st place. St. Louis is in third place. The Cardinals had a bad stretch to start June, but they've seemed to have righted the ship at months end. A team that really took a nosedive is the Philadelphia Phillies. The Phillies were in 1st several times during the 1st half of the season, but fell to a game under .500 at the break.

Washington seems hellbent on nailing down the number 1 draft pick by mid July. The Senators are still in the teens when it comes to victories and it took a short hot streak to get them past 15 wins. Crazy,.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Playing historical without historical minors what you get for the first year are players who actually played in the majors that year. If the real life team had an injured SS during the year it would call up a AAA shortstop and since that person played in the majors that year he would be in the OOTP game.

However if your injury is to an OF and the real team had no OFers injured, no one got called up and so you wouldn't have anyone to call up.

The second year you have all the historical players from that year plus players from the first year who didn't play the historical second year, plus a few who retired historically but didn't in OOTP, less a few of the opposite.

I started my current game in 1951 and let it run on its own and came in as GM in 1954.

NEW INFO!!!

Just discovered this.

In addition to the getting the players described above for the first year, the game also provides players who didn't play MLB in the starting year but played MLB both before and after the starting year. However they show up as free agents rather than assigned to the farm system of their actual teams (when applicable).

I haven't selected the option for players to miss historical years. So John Antonelli, who missed 51 and 52 but played MLB for the Braves both before and after shows up as a FA for a game starting in 51.

Hal McRae who played in the minors in 69 but for the Reds both before and after shows up as a FA for a game starting in 69.

Just doing some spot checks...

Year/# FAs
51 76
62 34
68 108
69 4
70 56
90 63

Note the lowest in in a year where both leagues expanded and the second lowest follows two consecutive years of expansion. So whether its necessary to prime the league with extra players by running it for a while seems to depend on the starting year.

What I'm doing is assigning FAs to the minor league affiliate of the teams that should hold their contract, in the examples above, Antonelli to the Braves and McRae to the Reds. Those I'm leaving as FAs are those who played in the minors but not for a MLB affiliate, for example, their contract was sold to the PCL, or those who had no contract at all for the starting year.

[Brad K]

Note: These players are not available unless import entire history is enabled.