Explain This New Development Feature To Me Please

[The Game]

This is new. Don't really know what it should be set at for a fictional 20 team league. Development Target/ Aging Target.

[brotherblues]

Average age at which players are mostly developed.

Average age at which they begin decline.

Leaving it at default will give you the same results as previous OOTP versions.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by brotherblues

Average age at which players are mostly developed.

Average age at which they begin decline.

Leaving it at default will give you the same results as previous OOTP versions.

how is that any different than the aging speed modifiers?

[fredbeene]

i thought one big selling point was in game help and tutorials?
is there no pop up help???

frustrating to be sure.....i think they purposely don't put HELP because they want active forums

[Anteater]

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=336036

[Cod]

Normally I go to the manual when I'm not sure what something is, but even the manual is lacking info on the default target age options (in fact, there's no mention of either option at all).

https://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com...player_options

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by Cod

Normally I go to the manual when I'm not sure what something is, but even the manual is lacking info on the default target age options (in fact, there's no mention of either option at all).

https://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com...player_options

Right, I understand the speed modifiers and adjusting them up/down, but do the "faster/slower" pulldowns override those settings? Amplify the settings? Is one ignored when the other is set like sabermetric PCMs?

[Anteater]

Matt explained it a little bit in the thread I linked to above.

[PSUColonel]

Huh....I still don't know what the default ages are though. I think that is sort of an important part of the equation here.

[Cod]

Originally Posted by Anteater

Matt explained it a little bit in the thread I linked to above.

Here's a direct link to the post from Matt you mentioned: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...40&postcount=8

[jcard]

As I noted recently in a separate post, the dynamic between development target age and development speed is less than obvious to me. Normally the target age would imply the rate of progress (since we are talking about players presumably in the process of developing already). What, for example, is the effect of selecting Much Older and pairing it with a high (faster) Development Speed modifier? Does it mean that the gap between current ability and potential closes faster than normal, but the period of time that potential can change (thus restarting this game of cat-and-mouse) is extended? One of any number of hypothetical explanations?

More broadly, the manual itself may be silent or inadequate on this and sundry other topics, but that fact itself speaks volumes. It is through these types of things, not sporadic forum posts, that a company truly communicates with their consumers. Whether selling an appliance or app, there is a certain threshold of customer expectations that is unmet here.

[Scipio Africanus]

I understand why the developers don't want everything mathematically spelled out. It would allow players to completely game the system and take away some of the fun. But I think the past few years a lot of the game functions have crossed over from "somewhat obfuscated for better gameplay" to "impenetrable".

There are a lot of long, long threads on this forum that are mainly composed of players disagreeing on what certain game functions even do, and to what extent they do them. What's the point of giving players options when the players don't understand what they're choosing between?

[jcard]

Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus

I understand why the developers don't want everything mathematically spelled out. It would allow players to completely game the system and take away some of the fun. But I think the past few years a lot of the game functions have crossed over from "somewhat obfuscated for better gameplay" to "impenetrable".

There are a lot of long, long threads on this forum that are mainly composed of players disagreeing on what certain game functions even do, and to what extent they do them. What's the point of giving players options when the players don't understand what they're choosing between?

I do not know how much, if any, of what you wrote was in response to me, but I just want to clarify that I am of like mind: I was definitely NOT asking for formulae and equations. That is not what I consider realistic; it is just exploiting the fact that the physics (if you will) of a game universe have to be reduced to definite code in software. On the other hand, in the real world we give names to forces and factors as we try to inch by inch peel back the shroud on the mechanistic laws that govern our reality. This game too often gives itÂ’s coded laws names without providing the user with sufficient context to try to apply them to his or her own game experience.

Long story short, I agree with both points that you express above.

[jpeters1734]

Based off what Matt said, this is how I understand it:

Traditionally, players will stop developing around 23-25ish. This is the "normal development target age". Setting dev target age to younger means that players will stop developing around 21-23ish. Set it to older, and they will stop developing around 25-27ish. Of course, I don't know the exact ages, but this is just an illustration.

This is very different than development speed. Setting dev target age to younger simply means the player has less time to reach his potential before he stops developing. It does not mean that players will develop quicker. That is what development speed does.

It's the same concept for the aging target age. It has nothing to do with how quickly a player's attributes deteriorate once he begins deteriorating. That last part is key. Traditionally, we've seen players start deteriorating around 30-33. Setting the aging target age to older means that they will begin deteriorating a little later around 32-35ish. Again, the aging speed controls how fast he will deteriorate once it begins.

Hope that helps

[jcard]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Based off what Matt said, this is how I understand it:

Traditionally, players will stop developing around 23-25ish. This is the "normal development target age". Setting dev target age to younger means that players will stop developing around 21-23ish. Set it to older, and they will stop developing around 25-27ish. Of course, I don't know the exact ages, but this is just an illustration.

This is very different than development speed. Setting dev target age to younger simply means the player has less time to reach his potential before he stops developing. It does not mean that players will develop quicker. That is what development speed does.

It's the same concept for the aging target age. It has nothing to do with how quickly a player's attributes deteriorate once he begins deteriorating. That last part is key. Traditionally, we've seen players start deteriorating around 30-33. Setting the aging target age to older means that they will begin deteriorating a little later around 32-35ish. Again, the aging speed controls how fast he will deteriorate once it begins.

Hope that helps

Thank you, but that does not address the scenario that I described (unless confirming the purely speculative extended game of cat-and-mouse I mentioned): High (= fast) Development Speed / Much Older Development Target Age. Again, since the player is developing already (unlike with the Decline counterparts, where the Target Age marks when the decline begins and thus when the decline speed modifier is used) the only way he can develop faster for a longer period of time is if by development window here we do not mean development in the sense of being the directional opposite of decline, but rather as the period of potential talent volatility (whether for better or worse).

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by jcard

Thank you, but that does not address the scenario that I described (unless confirming the purely speculative extended game of cat-and-mouse I mentioned): High (= fast) Development Speed / Much Older Development Target Age. Again, since the player is developing already (unlike with the Decline counterparts, where the Target Age marks when the decline begins and thus when the decline speed modifier is used) the only way he can develop faster for a longer period of time is if by development window here we do not mean development in the sense of being the directional opposite of decline, but rather as the period of potential talent volatility (whether for better or worse).

The effect of high dev speed and older target dev age... I am not sure what you mean by "cat-and-mouse". The older target dev age increases the number of years in which a player can develop. Mix in fast dev speed and what you will have is a league where almost everyone develops fully. Because even the typical slow developers would be getting longer to develop and a boost to their dev speed.

Maybe it's late, but I'm not understanding the second half of your post.

[Matt Arnold]

If you don't know what it should be set at, usually default is a good choice

But yeah, overall it's basically a way to change how long players develop or age for, rather than how fast. Ie. One of the complaints forever is "man it sucks that my guys drop off a cliff at 30". Yes, you can slow the aging speed to prevent that but then people are like "why are all these 42 year Olds still playing well?". So if that happens to you, you can set the aging target older, so that players won't start declining until 32 or 33 or 34, but can also separately set the speed if you do want some of them to fall off a cliff.

Same with development. If you feel the base age that players develop until is too soon or too far, you can tweak that.

And true, you can more or less "cancel out" the changes in some ways, or do different changes and have it effectively work the same way. Some of this is also just how you think - do you want to "speed up development" or "have players reach their peak sooner". Different ways to slice a melon.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

If you don't know what it should be set at, usually default is a good choice

But yeah, overall it's basically a way to change how long players develop or age for, rather than how fast. Ie. One of the complaints forever is "man it sucks that my guys drop off a cliff at 30". Yes, you can slow the aging speed to prevent that but then people are like "why are all these 42 year Olds still playing well?". So if that happens to you, you can set the aging target older, so that players won't start declining until 32 or 33 or 34, but can also separately set the speed if you do want some of them to fall off a cliff.

Same with development. If you feel the base age that players develop until is too soon or too far, you can tweak that.

And true, you can more or less "cancel out" the changes in some ways, or do different changes and have it effectively work the same way. Some of this is also just how you think - do you want to "speed up development" or "have players reach their peak sooner". Different ways to slice a melon.

I've been playing around with this a lot lately and I'm really liking the aging taget to older or much older. it's a great way to get guys on leaderboards

[PSUColonel]

OK...got it....I think default is the right place then.

[BBGiovanni]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Based off what Matt said, this is how I understand it:

Traditionally, players will stop developing around 23-25ish. This is the "normal development target age". Setting dev target age to younger means that players will stop developing around 21-23ish. Set it to older, and they will stop developing around 25-27ish. Of course, I don't know the exact ages, but this is just an illustration.

This actually is a good and helpful explanation.

And I don't want or need to know the exact age, which I assume would be randomized anyway. But without guidance numbers like yours listed on the pulldown menu or an explanation in the manual I'm not sure how we are/were supposed to know that "default is a good choice" when we've been told for several months that the game engine was totally rebuilt.

Anyway based on this I think I'll keep at .9 for both and set the sliders to "older" to get what I thought I was getting before. Thanks again.