Has Anyone Ever Seen the 3B Tag Third Base For a Forceout?

[Eugene Church]

I have never seen the third baseman step on third base for a force out when runners are on first and second base.

Does the third baseman ever tag a runner coming from second base?
Or force him out at third base?

You would think the third baseman would make the easier play and not throw to second base or first base for the out.

I have seen the third baseman step on third base for a force out and then complete the double play at first base.

[Sweed]

I've never seen it either, other than the DP variety. Maybe post a "can we get?" thread in the v24 forum?

I did try to do a search for real life numbers but could not find them based on Force Out at 3b, with 2 outs. What I did find is total force outs at 3b here..
https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...fielding.shtml
Hit the link, scroll down to "Team Advanced Fielding - 3B*" and you'll see the
"Frc" column under put outs.

In short in 2022 at 3b there were
3579 Total outs

2638 Caught in air outs

263 Force outs

678 Tag outs

That's 0.108 per game. Or 1 force out every 9-10 games in all possible scenarios. Maybe someone with a paid subscription to one of the stat keeping sites could get a breakdown for 2 outs where the force ended the inning? I wish I had the number so I could present it to Markus or Matt, but I don't and I can't seem to find a way to get it.

Having shown those small numbers doesn't mean I think it shouldn't be in the game. I do think it should. Maybe if someone can come up with the actual numbers and present them to Markus and Matt it would finally get done? I sure think with the info they would consider it.

If you do post in the v24 forum please feel free to cut and paste my response from here.

[Matt Arnold]

Statcast search (https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search) is great. You have to parse through the text on it sometimes. From that, I get 137 groundball forceouts to the thirdbaseman with "out at 3rd", of which 43 are with 0 or 1 out.

So yeah, it's fairly rare, but it should happen occasionally. I know in-game it tends to be mostly with 2 outs that they do that. I think there's rare times they can do it otherwise.

*Although I guess my search didn't include DP 3rd-1st, so that would be a handful more occurances that count in there too, presumably.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

I have never seen the third baseman step on third base for a force out when runners are on first and second base.

Does the third baseman ever tag a runner coming from second base?
Or force him out at third base?

You would think the third baseman would make the easier play and not throw to second base or first base for the out.

I have seen the third baseman step on third base for a force out and then complete the double play at first base.

I’ve seen rundowns between 2nd and 3rd but I can’t say I’ve ever seen a tag of 3rd, which as Matt said is a lowkey rare play.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Statcast search (https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search) is great. You have to parse through the text on it sometimes. From that, I get 137 groundball forceouts to the thirdbaseman with "out at 3rd", of which 43 are with 0 or 1 out.

So yeah, it's fairly rare, but it should happen occasionally. I know in-game it tends to be mostly with 2 outs that they do that. I think there's rare times they can do it otherwise.

*Although I guess my search didn't include DP 3rd-1st, so that would be a handful more occurances that count in there too, presumably.

I think it’s an artifact of how 3rd is played. Any hard hit ball that can be fielded and that has a chance of a double play is almost always going to be hit towards the hole, which means the 3rd baseman’s best choice will be to throw to 2nd rather than reverse course and run to third, especially given that runners on 2nd aren’t held nearly as tightly as guys on 1st.

I imagine if there were left-handed 3B this would be different - their glove hand would be next to the line so they’d be in perfect position often times to step on the bag and throw - but lefties who can throw hard enough to handle 3rd become pitchers by the time they’re 10 years old.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Statcast search (https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_search) is great. You have to parse through the text on it sometimes. From that, I get 137 groundball forceouts to the thirdbaseman with "out at 3rd", of which 43 are with 0 or 1 out.

So yeah, it's fairly rare, but it should happen occasionally. I know in-game it tends to be mostly with 2 outs that they do that. I think there's rare times they can do it otherwise.

*Although I guess my search didn't include DP 3rd-1st, so that would be a handful more occurances that count in there too, presumably.

Thanks for taking a look and finding the data. Also for the link, already added to my bookmarks.

[Eugene Church]

Thanks to Matt, Sweed and Syd for the replies.

I guess it doesn't happen very often.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I think it’s an artifact of how 3rd is played. Any hard hit ball that can be fielded and that has a chance of a double play is almost always going to be hit towards the hole, which means the 3rd baseman’s best choice will be to throw to 2nd rather than reverse course and run to third, especially given that runners on 2nd aren’t held nearly as tightly as guys on 1st.

I imagine if there were left-handed 3B this would be different - their glove hand would be next to the line so they’d be in perfect position often times to step on the bag and throw - but lefties who can throw hard enough to handle 3rd become pitchers by the time they’re 10 years old.

I think a lefty thrower would be even worse for trying to go across the diamond on that, since their momentum tends to take them into foul territory.

But it's more I think that by the time it take to run to tag third, change direction and throw across the diamond, you're rarely getting the double-play. If you want the double-play, it's usually going to be faster to throw to 2nd for the relay back to 1st.

[Bobfather]

Just my 2 cents, with the bag, now playing closer to the bag, due to limits on shifts, these plays may increase in real life.