Ask Manager for Depth Chart

jaywalk85 · 07-08-2006, 09:04 AM

Does anyone know if this has been addressed in the patch? My least favorite thing about the game has been that when asking the manager for depth charts, he includes injured players. This forces me to shuffle the depth charts myself, making sure all starters have backups. Multiply that by all my minor league teams and I spend most of my time in the depth chart screen. I remember hearing a possible "minor league DL" option, although I believe that to be unrealistic.

Solonor · 07-08-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaywalk85

Does anyone know if this has been addressed in the patch? My least favorite thing about the game has been that when asking the manager for depth charts, he includes injured players. This forces me to shuffle the depth charts myself, making sure all starters have backups. Multiply that by all my minor league teams and I spend most of my time in the depth chart screen. I remember hearing a possible "minor league DL" option, although I believe that to be unrealistic.

I just tested this, and the manager does include injured players as starters on the depth chart and in the lineup. However, the AI does choose a replacement player when actually playing the game. This is the same as in 6.5 when it lets you put an injured player in the lineup/depth chart (though I don't think the autogen will).

It is annoying, because while that might be the best default lineup, if your superstar slugger bats 4th in the default lineup and he's hurt, the in-game AI just replaces him with his backup. Instead, it should rearrange the lineup so that the 4th spot isn't filled with a backup. The old version does that too.

bp_ · 07-08-2006, 10:04 AM

The best solution for me would be if an option to set depth charts based on lineups was added to the game.

jaywalk85 · 07-08-2006, 10:15 AM

The whole thing bothers me for two reasons.

1) Like you stated, the lineup does not change to reflect the substituted player.

2) Since the minors are real leagues now, we have to make sure the players have backups. If the AI would ignore the injured players, we could tell if all players have backups. As it is now, if I have three injured players in AA ball, I have to study the depth chart, figuring out how it would be without the injured players, so I can make sure the backups (now starters) all have backups themselves. Otherwise, they seem to get too tired.

I wouldn't mind doing this if it were an NFL sim, with only 16 games, but it's baseball. With the new injury model, this is a constant occurence, and I'm just not having very much fun with it, because I spend all my time trying to figure out information that in my opinion should be given to us with the click of a button. Then I could easily make transactions to fill out depth charts.

GabeRivers · 07-08-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solonor

I just tested this, and the manager does include injured players as starters on the depth chart and in the lineup. However, the AI does choose a replacement player when actually playing the game. This is the same as in 6.5 when it lets you put an injured player in the lineup/depth chart (though I don't think the autogen will).

I also tested this, with different results. In the first game with the injured player remaining in the depth chart\lineup, the AI substituted for the injured player. However, in the second game the AI started the injured player -- and this was an 'OUT' type injury, not just diminished capacity.

TC Dale · 07-08-2006, 12:46 PM

Moved to Tech Support for more info. Guys do we have some screenshots and some confirmations on this happening again, or was this just a one shot?

GabeRivers · 07-08-2006, 12:50 PM

I've only tested it once, and then moved on. How is it supposed to be working now?

tysok · 07-08-2006, 01:53 PM

Are you sure it leaves the lineups the same in the games?

First, I like that it leaves the guy in the lineup in the minors even though he's "out" for 2 weeks... That way I can go in whenever I want, make sure the lineups and depth charts are what I want for a perfect world and don't have to worry about going back and redoing it in 2 weeks to make sure he gets to play.

If you don't have a backup listed in the depth charts that doesn't mean that the one guy lsited as starter is going to play there every game, every at bat even if he's so tired he falls asleep (using his glove as a pillow). It will find someone to replace him if it needs. The depth charts just give you control of who will be that sub if you desire to make the decision.
The only thing I would like to know is if you can tell your normal starting 2B to play 3B when the normal 3B is tired, and the sub for 2B "if starter tired" would then take 2B... I haven't gotten an answer on that, and haven't been able to tell, for various reasons, in simming my games.

From my experience, at least in the case of tired players, it does change the lineups around when the sub comes in. There was only 1 case where the new lineup made no sense (according to how the game is currently looking at players that is). I haven't noticed one way or the other with players who are "out" as I've mostly had longer injuries to more key players that have to get replaced... the one time I could have checked was in the middle of the season, a time when I normally sim the games instead of watch, and forgot to look into it.
In fact, the only problem I HAVE seen in the case of injured players being in lineups or listed in positions for pitching has been in the case of "out" players listed in the minor league rotation... where the spot starter starts 90% of the games. I haven't looked at this after Friday's patch though.

To sum up, since I ramble, I like that I don't have to micromanage the minors in the case of injuries... as long as it does sub correctly (I don't even really care about the lineups in hte minors, but it should change those around too if needed). I'll assist this thread by trying to keep an eye on what happens... but hope this doesn't change to be like the past versions where it ignored injured players when asked to set the depth charts, it was annoying for me to have to micromanage... I'd rather it only "ignored injured players" in this way if YOU were the manager of said team, as in you took the job of managing the AA team... but not when you're a GM.

Solonor · 07-09-2006, 01:13 PM

I did a bunch of screenshots (which I'm not going to bore everyone with unless needed), and what I found was that I was mostly wrong. It is true that if you leave the depth chart and lineup alone and start a game, the AI will not remove your injured starter from the lineup. However, it also won't let you continue into the game.

If you just sim a game and look at the box score, it does replace your starter with the reserve, and it does rearrange the lineup so that the backup player is not in the number 3 spot when they don't belong there.

I double-checked 6.5, and this is different behavior in the new game. And I like it!

battists · 07-11-2006, 09:30 AM

The idea behind Markus' original coding is that when you ask the manager for the lineup, he gives you the best lineup given the players on your roster, regardless of injury status.

Then, when a game is auto-simmed, the game makes the decision about who to substitute for injured players. Of course, if you don't want to rely on them, you can manually adjust your lineup and depth charts to account for injuries.

The reasoning behind this is pretty straightforward: if they factored in injuries, then you'd have to remember to redo this every time a player returned from an injury. For example, let's say your starting 2B is Will Davis, a stud. He pulls a muscle, is out for 4 weeks. So, you ask your manager to set up the lineup, and he takes Davis out due to the injury and puts in Jon Scrubini, the utility infielder. 4 weeks go by, and Davis is ready to come back. But, until you hit "ask manager for lineups" again, Scrubini is still in the lineup and the starter in the depth charts.

With the current model, the game will put Davis back in the game as soon as he is available again.

That's the logic, anyway. We're open to suggestions on how that could be made less confusing. And of course, if the computer ISN'T doing this, we'd like to know.

Thanks,
Steve

Solonor · 07-11-2006, 09:38 AM

No, I totally like the way it's working now.

07-08-2006, 09:04 AM	#1
jaywalk85 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 39	Ask Manager for Depth Chart Does anyone know if this has been addressed in the patch? My least favorite thing about the game has been that when asking the manager for depth charts, he includes injured players. This forces me to shuffle the depth charts myself, making sure all starters have backups. Multiply that by all my minor league teams and I spend most of my time in the depth chart screen. I remember hearing a possible "minor league DL" option, although I believe that to be unrealistic.

07-08-2006, 10:04 AM	#3
bp_ Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 2,804 Blog Entries: 1	The best solution for me would be if an option to set depth charts based on lineups was added to the game. __________________ Commish: Over The Mound

07-08-2006, 12:46 PM	#6
TC Dale Global Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,877	Moved to Tech Support for more info. Guys do we have some screenshots and some confirmations on this happening again, or was this just a one shot? __________________ ---------------------------------- “Don't go around saying the world owes you a living, the world owes you nothing, it was here first.” Mark Twain.

07-09-2006, 01:13 PM	#9
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,459	I did a bunch of screenshots (which I'm not going to bore everyone with unless needed), and what I found was that I was mostly wrong. It is true that if you leave the depth chart and lineup alone and start a game, the AI will not remove your injured starter from the lineup. However, it also won't let you continue into the game. If you just sim a game and look at the box score, it does replace your starter with the reserve, and it does rearrange the lineup so that the backup player is not in the number 3 spot when they don't belong there. I double-checked 6.5, and this is different behavior in the new game. And I like it! __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

07-11-2006, 09:38 AM	#11
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,459	No, I totally like the way it's working now. __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

07-08-2006, 10:15 AM	#4
jaywalk85 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 39	The whole thing bothers me for two reasons. 1) Like you stated, the lineup does not change to reflect the substituted player. 2) Since the minors are real leagues now, we have to make sure the players have backups. If the AI would ignore the injured players, we could tell if all players have backups. As it is now, if I have three injured players in AA ball, I have to study the depth chart, figuring out how it would be without the injured players, so I can make sure the backups (now starters) all have backups themselves. Otherwise, they seem to get too tired. I wouldn't mind doing this if it were an NFL sim, with only 16 games, but it's baseball. With the new injury model, this is a constant occurence, and I'm just not having very much fun with it, because I spend all my time trying to figure out information that in my opinion should be given to us with the click of a button. Then I could easily make transactions to fill out depth charts.

07-08-2006, 12:50 PM	#7
GabeRivers Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 82	I've only tested it once, and then moved on. How is it supposed to be working now?

07-08-2006, 01:53 PM	#8
tysok Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,925	Are you sure it leaves the lineups the same in the games? First, I like that it leaves the guy in the lineup in the minors even though he's "out" for 2 weeks... That way I can go in whenever I want, make sure the lineups and depth charts are what I want for a perfect world and don't have to worry about going back and redoing it in 2 weeks to make sure he gets to play. If you don't have a backup listed in the depth charts that doesn't mean that the one guy lsited as starter is going to play there every game, every at bat even if he's so tired he falls asleep (using his glove as a pillow). It will find someone to replace him if it needs. The depth charts just give you control of who will be that sub if you desire to make the decision. The only thing I would like to know is if you can tell your normal starting 2B to play 3B when the normal 3B is tired, and the sub for 2B "if starter tired" would then take 2B... I haven't gotten an answer on that, and haven't been able to tell, for various reasons, in simming my games. From my experience, at least in the case of tired players, it does change the lineups around when the sub comes in. There was only 1 case where the new lineup made no sense (according to how the game is currently looking at players that is). I haven't noticed one way or the other with players who are "out" as I've mostly had longer injuries to more key players that have to get replaced... the one time I could have checked was in the middle of the season, a time when I normally sim the games instead of watch, and forgot to look into it. In fact, the only problem I HAVE seen in the case of injured players being in lineups or listed in positions for pitching has been in the case of "out" players listed in the minor league rotation... where the spot starter starts 90% of the games. I haven't looked at this after Friday's patch though. To sum up, since I ramble, I like that I don't have to micromanage the minors in the case of injuries... as long as it does sub correctly (I don't even really care about the lineups in hte minors, but it should change those around too if needed). I'll assist this thread by trying to keep an eye on what happens... but hope this doesn't change to be like the past versions where it ignored injured players when asked to set the depth charts, it was annoying for me to have to micromanage... I'd rather it only "ignored injured players" in this way if YOU were the manager of said team, as in you took the job of managing the AA team... but not when you're a GM.

07-11-2006, 09:30 AM	#10
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506 Blog Entries: 7	The idea behind Markus' original coding is that when you ask the manager for the lineup, he gives you the best lineup given the players on your roster, regardless of injury status. Then, when a game is auto-simmed, the game makes the decision about who to substitute for injured players. Of course, if you don't want to rely on them, you can manually adjust your lineup and depth charts to account for injuries. The reasoning behind this is pretty straightforward: if they factored in injuries, then you'd have to remember to redo this every time a player returned from an injury. For example, let's say your starting 2B is Will Davis, a stud. He pulls a muscle, is out for 4 weeks. So, you ask your manager to set up the lineup, and he takes Davis out due to the injury and puts in Jon Scrubini, the utility infielder. 4 weeks go by, and Davis is ready to come back. But, until you hit "ask manager for lineups" again, Scrubini is still in the lineup and the starter in the depth charts. With the current model, the game will put Davis back in the game as soon as he is available again. That's the logic, anyway. We're open to suggestions on how that could be made less confusing. And of course, if the computer ISN'T doing this, we'd like to know. Thanks, Steve