14-year bug search in patch #2

rasnell · 07-09-2006, 03:44 PM

Drilling down in depth in a search for bugs with Patch #2, here is what I've found in a fictional league of 16 teams, with historical player creation and era modifiers clicked on: (I simmed 14 seasons from the 1920-40 era, fictional).

1. Stolen bases in the default settings are still way too high -- about five times higher than the historical setting and the historical modifiers do not reset or correct the problem in subsequent seasons. Teams average more than 500 stolen bases per year.

2. Home runs in the default settings are too low by about 15 percent, even using the historical modifiers in the default game.

3. Manager date-of-birth field is faulty. No matter what birth year you choose, it gets overridden and the age is incorrectly reported.

4. By mid- to late-season, or some sort of minimum at bat and IP, the AI is going to have to be tweaked to begin considering actual stats over the ratings. Exceptional players with average ratings should obviously be in the lineup. We're talking .380 hitters after 300 at bats who are #3 in the depth charts because someone out-ranks them in the ratings. Remember when we had this problem as far back as OOTP 3 and Markus gave us the ability to give a weighted average to ratings vs. actual stats. I think we need this option again.

5. Same problem with on-base vs. power for leadoff hitters. Markus gave us weighted averages that we could set and tweak and this game has the same flaws.

6. Wild pitches are 3 times higher than the MLB norm. This bug appears in exactly the same magnitude in historical or fictional sims so the problem is not simply the field in the Lahman database. If you show all pitchers after a 14-year sim and sort by wild pitches for an individual season, you'll find up numerous pitchers with 40-60 wild pitches, and some even exceed bases on balls for those individual pitchers. If you divided these totals by 3, it would be closer to realistic.

7. In selecting the leadoff hitter, the AI is wrong 10 out of 16 times and really, really wrong in 5 of those 10 times. I gave maximum benefit of the doubt to the AI. By looking at all 16 teams, sorting first by contact, then by steal, eliminating the top three hitters for power (assuming they should be in the middle of the lineup), and then considering eye and K's as a tie-breaker, the AI is really, really missing the mark. In three examples, after seeing the best contact and power combos are in the middle of the lineup, there was still a 90 contact, 80 eye, 100 steal available for leadoff and the AI selected a 45 contact, 15 eye, 80 steal for the leadoff position. Something is very wrong in what the AI is being told to look at in selecting the leadoff hitter. (I accounted for fielding, positions and gave benefit of the doubt to whom the AI would want defensively; still doesn't check out and is very wrong).

8. There are minimal problems in how AI is selecting the slugger. Somehow they are ending up in the second or sixth spots when they clearly should be #4, but this glitch is infrequent.

9. The AI is very reliable in choosing the best contact-power hitter for the #3 spot.

rasnell · 07-09-2006, 03:53 PM

I'm very curious for anyone else out there to check your season stats. Look at stolen base totals, go to show all players and check for season numbers on wild pitches.

Sort through the AI teams and look at the leadoff hitters. Are you all seeing similar results?

Qrusher14242 · 07-09-2006, 04:36 PM

Here's my wild pitches for the 1927 season of my historical replay

rasnell · 07-09-2006, 05:59 PM

The most wild pitches Harry Courtney ever had in his career was 8. You're showing results that are 5x as bad, even worse than what I thought was 3x as bad.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/courtha01.shtml

Lefty Grove's wildest year was 9.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/grovele01.shtml

targy · 07-09-2006, 06:22 PM

#3 Thank you for me not being the only one who saw this, I have written to Tech and am still waiting for a responce. I started a league in 1977 and I set my year of birth to 1948 and when I started the game the manages birth was 1919 and he was 57......

rasnell · 07-09-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by targy

#3 Thank you for me not being the only one who saw this, I have written to Tech and am still waiting for a responce. I started a league in 1977 and I set my year of birth to 1948 and when I started the game the manages birth was 1919 and he was 57......

Targy, did you notice this before Patch #2? I never saw it until after the latest patch. I think they've got so many bugs to squash that they haven't gotten to your initial post.

Hope they'll see all of this. The game is falling far short. Right now, I'm only playing to test for bugs. I'm not playing for fun because there are too many glitches to blow it. Losing a World Series with 5 wild pitches in a game is pretty much a fun-killer.

targy · 07-09-2006, 06:35 PM

Everything was fine before the new patch, never has this problem before, now in patch 1.02 it show up all the time, the only workaround is to retire from the team you manage, create a new manager and assign him to the team you managed, go back to where you can choose a manager, delete the first one and then choose the new manager with the correct birthdate...It only happens when you create a historic league, I have not tried this with a fictional one...a slight aggravation but an easy fix

rasnell · 07-09-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by targy

Everything was fine before the new patch, never has this problem before, now in patch 1.02 it show up all the time, the only workaround is to retire from the team you manage, create a new manager and assign him to the team you managed, go back to where you can choose a manager, delete the first one and then choose the new manager with the correct birthdate...It only happens when you create a historic league, I have not tried this with a fictional one...a slight aggravation but an easy fix

Also happens in fictional leagues.

targy · 07-09-2006, 06:44 PM

Well maybe we can get it fixed if we talk about. It is not a real big problem and there is a workaround

rwd59 · 07-09-2006, 08:32 PM

The manager birth year change issue was in patch #1. When I set myself up for the first time it changed my YOB as well.

rasnell · 07-10-2006, 10:03 PM

Bumping this so Battists will see. This sim is now up to 50 years with all of the same 9 observations still applying at the start of the thread.

battists · 07-10-2006, 10:17 PM

Rasnell, you're killing me!

You're coming up with some great information, but you've brought it up in 10 different threads, all talking about the same things.

Please, please, please, from here on out, 1 problem per thread. You obviously can tell that there's a lot of threads we're trying to respond to. When you put all of the different issues into 1 thread, repeating issues you've mentioned elsewhere, I need to spend time looking them all up again to confirm the numbers, make sure I don't have duplicates logged, and so forth.

This will also make it MUCH easier for people experiencing the same problems to post supporting evidence, if they are looking for it.

Please, I'm begging you!

#1 is issue # 1877
#3 is issue # 1446
#6 is issue # 2138
#7 you brought up in another thread somewhere, but I don't have the link
#9 isn't an issue

I'll get back to you on these other issues in a bit!

Thanks,

Steve

rasnell · 07-10-2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Rasnell, you're killing me!

You're coming up with some great information, but you've brought it up in 10 different threads, all talking about the same things.

Please, please, please, from here on out, 1 problem per thread. You obviously can tell that there's a lot of threads we're trying to respond to. When you put all of the different issues into 1 thread, repeating issues you've mentioned elsewhere, I need to spend time looking them all up again to confirm the numbers, make sure I don't have duplicates logged, and so forth.

This will also make it MUCH easier for people experiencing the same problems to post supporting evidence, if they are looking for it.

Please, I'm begging you!

#1 is issue # 1877
#3 is issue # 1446
#6 is issue # 2138
#7 you brought up in another thread somewhere, but I don't have the link
#9 isn't an issue

I'll get back to you on these other issues in a bit!

Thanks,

Steve

My apologies. If you'll look at the date and time of the threads, I posted them individually as I discovered them in Patch #2. Once I had substantiating evidence and 50 more years of sims and tested both fictional and historical, I summarized in this particular thread, listing comprehensively everything found.

I apologize. I tried to post each one as I found them and tried to summarize when I had far more proof.

But, hey, you're sure not going to miss my bug reports. I'll wear you down until you fix it.

#7 is actually dealt with in greatest detail here in this current thread.

What about the HR issue and the historical modifiers? Never heard back from Garlon and not sure why this one remains off for every year -- pretty far off.

battists · 07-12-2006, 12:01 PM

Alright, I've broken this into multiple threads:

#1 is issue # 1877
#2 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126978
#3 is issue # 1446
#4, #5 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126979
#6 is issue # 2138
#7 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126977
#8 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126980
#9 isn't an issue

I'm closing this thread now. Please take discussion of these issues to the threads listed above. I'll try to move posts where appropriate.

07-09-2006, 03:44 PM	#1
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	14-year bug search in patch #2 Drilling down in depth in a search for bugs with Patch #2, here is what I've found in a fictional league of 16 teams, with historical player creation and era modifiers clicked on: (I simmed 14 seasons from the 1920-40 era, fictional). 1. Stolen bases in the default settings are still way too high -- about five times higher than the historical setting and the historical modifiers do not reset or correct the problem in subsequent seasons. Teams average more than 500 stolen bases per year. 2. Home runs in the default settings are too low by about 15 percent, even using the historical modifiers in the default game. 3. Manager date-of-birth field is faulty. No matter what birth year you choose, it gets overridden and the age is incorrectly reported. 4. By mid- to late-season, or some sort of minimum at bat and IP, the AI is going to have to be tweaked to begin considering actual stats over the ratings. Exceptional players with average ratings should obviously be in the lineup. We're talking .380 hitters after 300 at bats who are #3 in the depth charts because someone out-ranks them in the ratings. Remember when we had this problem as far back as OOTP 3 and Markus gave us the ability to give a weighted average to ratings vs. actual stats. I think we need this option again. 5. Same problem with on-base vs. power for leadoff hitters. Markus gave us weighted averages that we could set and tweak and this game has the same flaws. 6. Wild pitches are 3 times higher than the MLB norm. This bug appears in exactly the same magnitude in historical or fictional sims so the problem is not simply the field in the Lahman database. If you show all pitchers after a 14-year sim and sort by wild pitches for an individual season, you'll find up numerous pitchers with 40-60 wild pitches, and some even exceed bases on balls for those individual pitchers. If you divided these totals by 3, it would be closer to realistic. 7. In selecting the leadoff hitter, the AI is wrong 10 out of 16 times and really, really wrong in 5 of those 10 times. I gave maximum benefit of the doubt to the AI. By looking at all 16 teams, sorting first by contact, then by steal, eliminating the top three hitters for power (assuming they should be in the middle of the lineup), and then considering eye and K's as a tie-breaker, the AI is really, really missing the mark. In three examples, after seeing the best contact and power combos are in the middle of the lineup, there was still a 90 contact, 80 eye, 100 steal available for leadoff and the AI selected a 45 contact, 15 eye, 80 steal for the leadoff position. Something is very wrong in what the AI is being told to look at in selecting the leadoff hitter. (I accounted for fielding, positions and gave benefit of the doubt to whom the AI would want defensively; still doesn't check out and is very wrong). 8. There are minimal problems in how AI is selecting the slugger. Somehow they are ending up in the second or sixth spots when they clearly should be #4, but this glitch is infrequent. 9. The AI is very reliable in choosing the best contact-power hitter for the #3 spot. Last edited by rasnell; 07-09-2006 at 03:52 PM.

07-09-2006, 03:53 PM	#2
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	I'm very curious for anyone else out there to check your season stats. Look at stolen base totals, go to show all players and check for season numbers on wild pitches. Sort through the AI teams and look at the leadoff hitters. Are you all seeing similar results?

07-09-2006, 04:36 PM	#3
Qrusher14242 All Star Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CA Posts: 1,253	Here's my wild pitches for the 1927 season of my historical replay Attached Images __________________ "Go then, there are other worlds than these"

07-09-2006, 05:59 PM	#4
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	The most wild pitches Harry Courtney ever had in his career was 8. You're showing results that are 5x as bad, even worse than what I thought was 3x as bad. http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/courtha01.shtml Lefty Grove's wildest year was 9. http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/grovele01.shtml Last edited by rasnell; 07-09-2006 at 06:00 PM.

07-09-2006, 06:22 PM	#5
targy All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 1,152	#3 Thank you for me not being the only one who saw this, I have written to Tech and am still waiting for a responce. I started a league in 1977 and I set my year of birth to 1948 and when I started the game the manages birth was 1919 and he was 57......

07-09-2006, 06:35 PM	#7
targy All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 1,152	Everything was fine before the new patch, never has this problem before, now in patch 1.02 it show up all the time, the only workaround is to retire from the team you manage, create a new manager and assign him to the team you managed, go back to where you can choose a manager, delete the first one and then choose the new manager with the correct birthdate...It only happens when you create a historic league, I have not tried this with a fictional one...a slight aggravation but an easy fix

07-09-2006, 06:44 PM	#9
targy All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 1,152	Well maybe we can get it fixed if we talk about. It is not a real big problem and there is a workaround

07-09-2006, 08:32 PM	#10
rwd59 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 865	The manager birth year change issue was in patch #1. When I set myself up for the first time it changed my YOB as well.

07-10-2006, 10:03 PM	#11
rasnell Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Frankfort, Kentucky Posts: 3,746	Bumping this so Battists will see. This sim is now up to 50 years with all of the same 9 observations still applying at the start of the thread.

07-10-2006, 10:17 PM	#12
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506 Blog Entries: 7	Rasnell, you're killing me! You're coming up with some great information, but you've brought it up in 10 different threads, all talking about the same things. Please, please, please, from here on out, 1 problem per thread. You obviously can tell that there's a lot of threads we're trying to respond to. When you put all of the different issues into 1 thread, repeating issues you've mentioned elsewhere, I need to spend time looking them all up again to confirm the numbers, make sure I don't have duplicates logged, and so forth. This will also make it MUCH easier for people experiencing the same problems to post supporting evidence, if they are looking for it. Please, I'm begging you! #1 is issue # 1877 #3 is issue # 1446 #6 is issue # 2138 #7 you brought up in another thread somewhere, but I don't have the link #9 isn't an issue I'll get back to you on these other issues in a bit! Thanks, Steve

07-12-2006, 12:01 PM	#14
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506 Blog Entries: 7	Alright, I've broken this into multiple threads: #1 is issue # 1877 #2 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126978 #3 is issue # 1446 #4, #5 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126979 #6 is issue # 2138 #7 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126977 #8 http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=126980 #9 isn't an issue I'm closing this thread now. Please take discussion of these issues to the threads listed above. I'll try to move posts where appropriate.