Players traded are released immediately - Page 2

WWBL Commissioner · 11-01-2006, 11:51 PM

OK so just completed a trade in my online league. In the game log it shows the new pitcher did take the mound for me but his stats are not right. when I click on him he us still showing up as playing for his old team. Anybody have any ideas about what to do?

Edit: More information, I ran the trade again. this seemed to put the player on the right team now. the players he was traded for were all Minor league players. They were all dumped into the free agent pool and I had to sign them back to the team that traded for them.

WWBL Commissioner · 11-02-2006, 12:50 AM

Little more info: the only other thing I can think that I did was I check for last minute exports after I did the trade so Tennessee had an export in there that might have still contained the pitcher pre trade...could that have messed it up?

battists · 11-02-2006, 08:00 AM

Could someone please link me to a league file in which this problem has happened? I'd like to try to reproduce it again.

Thanks very much...

Steve

Markus Heinsohn · 11-02-2006, 09:40 AM

This is not a bug. The commish has to import all the team exports before processing any trades. Otherwise the import will release players no longer on a team.

Markus Heinsohn · 11-02-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Johnson

You have to turn off the AI for every level for every team to completely shut down the really bad AI as far as online leagues go. This is the only way that our league "fixed" the game dropping traded players. If you do a search in the forum, there's a thread about how to do this. You need to first shut down the minor league AI at each level (in game setup for each level) and then the major league AI. Do this for every team and the problem goes away.

Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier because it almost closed our league as well.

The AI does NOT touch a human controlled team, or release any players. This is solely a matter of when the commish imports the teams!

battists · 11-02-2006, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This is not a bug. The commish has to import all the team exports before processing any trades. Otherwise the import will release players no longer on a team.

Forgive Markus his brusque ways...being a non-native speaker and a developer can make him come across a little harsh.

Based on what Markus wrote, though, I'd like to try a test, once I can grab a copy of someone's league. We should get a copy of the league, and try this:

1. Have GMs export some changes.
2. Have commish process a trade
3. Have commish import teams
4. Figure out what happens

And then, to go with that, using the same starting point:

1. Have GMs export some changes.
2. Have commish import teams
3. Have commish process a trade
4. Figure out what happens

Again, if someone who has experienced this issue can provide me with their league file, I'd love to try this with your league, just to rule out the possibility there's something messed up in your league file.

If this turns out to work as Markus described, I think it's important to nail this down, and I can provide the online community with an add-on to the manual or something that describes this situation precisely.

Thanks very much for your patience.

Steve

Goodsox · 11-02-2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWBL Commissioner

Little more info: the only other thing I can think that I did was I check for last minute exports after I did the trade so Tennessee had an export in there that might have still contained the pitcher pre trade...could that have messed it up?

Yes, that would have definitely messed the trade up. You should only process trades after importing all teams.

robster1225 · 11-02-2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This is not a bug. The commish has to import all the team exports before processing any trades. Otherwise the import will release players no longer on a team.

Markus, this makes sense. I'll ask the commish of my league if that is what he did.

Unfortunately, Steve, I don't have a copy of that file, because the league ended due to frustration, but I will try to contact the commish and see if he has the league file still. Thanks for the help guys, and I think we may be getting closer to the root of this issue.

thepbl · 11-02-2006, 12:18 PM

I have had this happen... following what Markus has said regarding import of lineups prior to any trades.

so i would say.. it is a bug

DaMook · 11-02-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This is not a bug. The commish has to import all the team exports before processing any trades. Otherwise the import will release players no longer on a team.

I import all teams before I do anything so I don't see how that's that problem.

WWBL Commissioner · 11-02-2006, 04:52 PM

I just sent you a link to my league file

WWBL Commissioner · 11-02-2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This is not a bug. The commish has to import all the team exports before processing any trades. Otherwise the import will release players no longer on a team.

But that's not all that happened in my case. One of the players from the trade showed up as still being on the old team, started for me according to the box sore, but all the stats and the pitchers log show like he was playing against me.

thepbl · 11-02-2006, 05:15 PM

WWBL,

That has happened to me as well. When trades process, sometimes players end up on the correct team, sometimes some in the deal will stay on their old team.... some players just magically appear in the free agent pool.

I state again, when these things happened to me.... I imported lineups FIRST. Because... that would just make too much sense

Also, when I did have these things happening... it was in an online league setting, where there was a mix of human and AI teams... and trades that were messed up like this was when a human team finished a good deal with the AI.

Chris Johnson · 11-02-2006, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

The AI does NOT touch a human controlled team, or release any players. This is solely a matter of when the commish imports the teams!

This makes no sense, especially since now that the AI has been turned off, we have had zero problems with the AI moving things around. Maybe AI is not the correct word, but before the AI box wasn't checked, players were released. Since we checked the box and shut down the AI, no players are released. So whatever technical explanation that may exist, checkign the AI button fixed the problem for us.

And since we import all teams once before any trades are made, I have no idea what you are saying in the above quote Markus. So the sequence is import teams for sim, run week, execute trades, upload new file. Owners get the new file, and noticed that trades were not right for whatever reason. I would import and notice trades were not right (released, not on new teams, etc.). Shutting down the AI at all levels solved this problem for us.

robster1225 · 11-02-2006, 10:22 PM

Shutting down the AI at ALL levels did not fix the problem in the league i've been referring to. So there is more to it than just that.

Chris Johnson · 11-03-2006, 07:15 AM

Are you sure you shut it down correctly? Supposedly you first have to shut down each minor league team and then the major league level for each team. Doing otherwise doesn't work. And the shuttign down is done within each team, not the game setup menu. Just want to make sure because it didn't work at first for us either until I found a thread that discussed how to do it.

robster1225 · 11-03-2006, 10:23 PM

That may be the case. I'll have to ask the commish exactly how he did it.

Solonor · 11-09-2006, 06:36 AM

This may not be a "bug", but it is a design flaw when using a mix of human and AI teams in online leagues.

We discovered this evening that the online GM's should NEVER push the "Complete Trade" button in their copy of the game.

What happens is this:

1. Team A goes into the game and sets up a trade with Team B.
2. The AI of Team B says that this is a good trade and the "Complete Trade" button lights up.
3. Team A pushes the button, and the trade is completed in his copy of the game.
4. Team A exports his file to the Commish.
5. The Commish imports Team A, and since there is no import from Team B (because it's run via AI), the rosters are out-of whack.
6. The game does put the players that were traded from Team B onto Team A's roster.
7. However, it does not see the ones that Team A sent to Team B, so it considers them RELEASED by Team A!

Something similar to this happened in version 6.5 when I would sign free agents in my copy of the game then import a roster from a team. The players would not be in the import file, so the game would try to release them. However, in 6.5 it paused on import and asked if it was ok to release the players. So, I could say "no" and deal with it.

So, since we know that human teams cannot trade with each other within the game, and since we now know that human teams cannot trade with AI teams within the game, all online trade requests need to be sent to the Commish to process.

In our league, I enter trade requests to AI teams, and I will use the "Force Trade" option if the AI immediately agrees to the trade. If the AI says something like "I'll think about it. Submit the offer.", then I will reply to the human GM that the AI does not like the offer, and we can go from there.

robster1225 · 11-09-2006, 10:44 AM

That would make sense. But in the case I'm referring to, no AI teams were involved. in fact, no AI teams were even in the league. But, it could be that people submitted trades in game, and weren't supposed to. I guess we'll never know on my end, since the league ended.

Goodsox · 11-23-2006, 12:08 PM

I'm going to go ahead and close this one since Markus has verified there is no bug. If someone can duplicate this using the proper steps to execute an online league trade (no human involvement), etc. then please PM me and I will reopen. Thanks.

11-01-2006, 11:51 PM	#21
WWBL Commissioner All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Hawaii Posts: 887	trade problem OK so just completed a trade in my online league. In the game log it shows the new pitcher did take the mound for me but his stats are not right. when I click on him he us still showing up as playing for his old team. Anybody have any ideas about what to do? Edit: More information, I ran the trade again. this seemed to put the player on the right team now. the players he was traded for were all Minor league players. They were all dumped into the free agent pool and I had to sign them back to the team that traded for them. __________________ Offey WWBL Commissioner(2004-2014 real life years) WWBL: Hawaii Island Warriors 2005 Pacific League Champion 2006 Pacific League Champion 2007 Pacific League Champion 2008 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2010 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2019 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2029 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION The Island Warriors are 21-23 in World Series play. BadAssBaseball: Boston Red Sox 1906 American League Champion 1907 WORLD CHAMPION Last edited by WWBL Commissioner; 11-02-2006 at 12:09 AM.

11-02-2006, 12:50 AM	#22
WWBL Commissioner All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Hawaii Posts: 887	Little more info: the only other thing I can think that I did was I check for last minute exports after I did the trade so Tennessee had an export in there that might have still contained the pitcher pre trade...could that have messed it up? __________________ Offey WWBL Commissioner(2004-2014 real life years) WWBL: Hawaii Island Warriors 2005 Pacific League Champion 2006 Pacific League Champion 2007 Pacific League Champion 2008 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2010 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2019 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2029 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION The Island Warriors are 21-23 in World Series play. BadAssBaseball: Boston Red Sox 1906 American League Champion 1907 WORLD CHAMPION

11-02-2006, 04:52 PM	#31
WWBL Commissioner All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Hawaii Posts: 887	I just sent you a link to my league file __________________ Offey WWBL Commissioner(2004-2014 real life years) WWBL: Hawaii Island Warriors 2005 Pacific League Champion 2006 Pacific League Champion 2007 Pacific League Champion 2008 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2010 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2019 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION 2029 WWBL WORLD CHAMPION The Island Warriors are 21-23 in World Series play. BadAssBaseball: Boston Red Sox 1906 American League Champion 1907 WORLD CHAMPION

11-02-2006, 05:15 PM	#33
thepbl Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60	WWBL, That has happened to me as well. When trades process, sometimes players end up on the correct team, sometimes some in the deal will stay on their old team.... some players just magically appear in the free agent pool. I state again, when these things happened to me.... I imported lineups FIRST. Because... that would just make too much sense Also, when I did have these things happening... it was in an online league setting, where there was a mix of human and AI teams... and trades that were messed up like this was when a human team finished a good deal with the AI. Last edited by thepbl; 11-02-2006 at 05:17 PM.

11-03-2006, 07:15 AM	#36
Chris Johnson Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 360	Are you sure you shut it down correctly? Supposedly you first have to shut down each minor league team and then the major league level for each team. Doing otherwise doesn't work. And the shuttign down is done within each team, not the game setup menu. Just want to make sure because it didn't work at first for us either until I found a thread that discussed how to do it. __________________ IOSBL - Commissioner & Jacksonville Sharks TLB - Los Angeles Dodgers APBL - Tampa Bay Devil Rays

11-02-2006, 08:00 AM	#23
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506 Blog Entries: 7	Could someone please link me to a league file in which this problem has happened? I'd like to try to reproduce it again. Thanks very much... Steve

11-02-2006, 09:40 AM	#24
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,806	This is not a bug. The commish has to import all the team exports before processing any trades. Otherwise the import will release players no longer on a team.

11-02-2006, 12:18 PM	#29
thepbl Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60	I have had this happen... following what Markus has said regarding import of lineups prior to any trades. so i would say.. it is a bug

11-02-2006, 10:22 PM	#35
robster1225 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,617	Shutting down the AI at ALL levels did not fix the problem in the league i've been referring to. So there is more to it than just that.

11-03-2006, 10:23 PM	#37
robster1225 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,617	That may be the case. I'll have to ask the commish exactly how he did it.

11-09-2006, 06:36 AM	#38
Solonor Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Maine Posts: 4,459	This may not be a "bug", but it is a design flaw when using a mix of human and AI teams in online leagues. We discovered this evening that the online GM's should NEVER push the "Complete Trade" button in their copy of the game. What happens is this: 1. Team A goes into the game and sets up a trade with Team B. 2. The AI of Team B says that this is a good trade and the "Complete Trade" button lights up. 3. Team A pushes the button, and the trade is completed in his copy of the game. 4. Team A exports his file to the Commish. 5. The Commish imports Team A, and since there is no import from Team B (because it's run via AI), the rosters are out-of whack. 6. The game does put the players that were traded from Team B onto Team A's roster. 7. However, it does not see the ones that Team A sent to Team B, so it considers them RELEASED by Team A! Something similar to this happened in version 6.5 when I would sign free agents in my copy of the game then import a roster from a team. The players would not be in the import file, so the game would try to release them. However, in 6.5 it paused on import and asked if it was ok to release the players. So, I could say "no" and deal with it. So, since we know that human teams cannot trade with each other within the game, and since we now know that human teams cannot trade with AI teams within the game, all online trade requests need to be sent to the Commish to process. In our league, I enter trade requests to AI teams, and I will use the "Force Trade" option if the AI immediately agrees to the trade. If the AI says something like "I'll think about it. Submit the offer.", then I will reply to the human GM that the AI does not like the offer, and we can go from there. __________________ Solonor's Groovy Computer Baseball League - Making baseball a hobbit since 2003! "Beings will come, Frodo. The one constant through all the years has been baseball. Middle Earth has rolled by like an army of Mumakil. It has been erased like a slate, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Frodo. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... beings will come Frodo. Beings will most definitely come." - Gladden Field of Dreams

11-09-2006, 10:44 AM	#39
robster1225 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,617	That would make sense. But in the case I'm referring to, no AI teams were involved. in fact, no AI teams were even in the league. But, it could be that people submitted trades in game, and weren't supposed to. I guess we'll never know on my end, since the league ended.

11-23-2006, 12:08 PM	#40
Goodsox Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,866	I'm going to go ahead and close this one since Markus has verified there is no bug. If someone can duplicate this using the proper steps to execute an online league trade (no human involvement), etc. then please PM me and I will reopen. Thanks. __________________ GoodSox Go White Sox!