How long can a guy theoretically play?

jasonditz · 04-19-2007, 03:51 PM

In my historical league (Historical players without historical development) my 1969 expansion team drafted, in a later round, a 32 year old leftie SP named Juan Pizarro. Anyhow, he was a perennial 20 loss pitcher with an average ERA for my dreadful first 7 seasons.

In 1977, he announced during Spring Training his intention to retire at the end of the season. At the ripe old age of 40. He was a spot starter and a mop up guy by this point. Anyhow, we flourished that season under our new manager (as I mentioned in a previous thread. So, September rolls around, and he starts agitating for a new contract. 1977 was one of his better years ERA wise up until that point, and he wanted just a hair above scale, so I decided to give him another year. Besides, he was impressively popular with the fans for the losingest pitcher in franchise history.

In 1978 he got off to a great start before having a major back injury that sidelined him for 13 months. But again, we reached the postseason, and again, he wanted a cheap extension. No point in hurting fan interest to save $85,000, right?

In 1979 he was pretty mediocre early in the season, but after converting him to a middle reliever he was solid. So, again, extension.

In his fourth decade in the majors, Juan has had ERAs of 3.14 in 1980 and 2.24 in 1981 as my primary middle reliever. He's as popular as ever, and as 1982 rolls around I'm relieved that he accepted another near-minimum extension.

But what I'm wondering is: This guy is going to be 45 before the 1982 season starts. I know that's not totally without precedent, but he seems to be getting better lately (in results if not in ratings). He's got seven pitches in his arsenal now, and he's also becoming a surprisingly good hitter (arguably better than some of my PHs). But since he already announced his retirement and then changed his mind before the season ended, will he announce again? Or is he just going to continue being my team's surprisingly popular elderly middle reliever into the future...

Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of cutting him loose, but I'd sort of hoped he'd eventually become a pitching coach or something so I could have him on my payroll in that capacity.

dangarion · 04-19-2007, 05:53 PM

This is pretty neat. I'd like to know what happens to him. I don't have an answer for you though.

AZTarHeel · 04-19-2007, 06:10 PM

Sounds like a great dynasty thread to me -- and I, too, have no answers for you... (sorry)

sflcat · 04-19-2007, 09:22 PM

Lucky dice rolls?

Ksyrup · 04-20-2007, 08:20 AM

1982 huh? This is perfect. Send him to the Mets and let him pass the torch to Jesse Orosco.

TheeeeeeeeeYankeesWin · 04-20-2007, 11:32 AM

Sounds pretty realistic actually. Thats how these mid-40's guys hang around- year by year small contracts and they keep putting up respectable numbers.

THE AGELESS MASTERS
There are a bunch of guys who come to mind:
Julio Franco (looks younger now than he did 10 years ago)
Jesse Orosco (This IS Juan Pizzaro)
Roger Clemens (o.k. he still dominates so he's a freak)
Jamie Moyer
Rickey Henderson (proud to say I say him in his prime and he was THE most exciting player I have ever seen. Seeing Ricky on 1st base was worth the admission price by itself)
Dennis Martinez
Nolan Ryan (the man with the golden arm)
Tommy John
Phil Niekro (knuckle ball still effective)
Gaylord Perry (nail filer still effective)
Jim Kaat
Pete Rose (helped that he was chasing Cobb)
Hoyt Wilhem (another knuckleballer; pitched until he was 49 and unhittable right up until his retirement- career 2.52 ERA! 5 sub 2.00 ERA seasons in a row after age 40!!!)
Satchel Paige (what could have been? Probably won 500 games and pitched 7,000 innings)
Warren Spahn (363 wins despite getting his first win at age 25; 250 to 300 high quality innings EVERY season for 17 straight!)
Cy Young (aka Cy Old - five 30-wins seasons and ten 20-win seasons he kept pitching in an era when most pitchers were burnt out after five seasons)
Cap Anson (3,000 hits despite seasons averaging less than 100 games!)
Harry Wright (Baseball's first elder statesmen - proved that guys over 40 could still play with the kids)

sraffa · 04-20-2007, 04:03 PM

Pizzaro was a fine pitcher during the 1960s, ran into arm troubles, and was basically washed up by the early 70s. In 1974, he was released by the Astros around opening day. But in August, the Pirates were in their stretch run and had serious depth problems and signed Pizzaro. He pitched very well in 2 spot starts and a few relief appearances, with an ERA of 1.88 in 24 IP.

Basically it was a fluke; no one really thought he could suddenly pitch again, and the Pirates dropped him after losing in the NLCS.

My guess is that at somepoint the game is recalcing his ratings based on the fluke 1974 performance, and figuring that a guy with a 1.88 ERA at age 37 has a decent chance of being able to pitch into his mid-40s. There are plenty of examples of middle relivers and spot starters hanging on into their 40s with some effectiveness; a lot of them lefties like Pizzaro.

jasonditz · 04-21-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

1982 huh? This is perfect. Send him to the Mets and let him pass the torch to Jesse Orosco.

Orosco was actually the setup man on my team for both 1981 and 1982.

Pizarro pitched like garbage in the 1982 campaign, by the way, ERA of 6.06. He retired at the end of the season.

I guess all good things must come to an end.

04-19-2007, 03:51 PM	#1
jasonditz Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 121	How long can a guy theoretically play? In my historical league (Historical players without historical development) my 1969 expansion team drafted, in a later round, a 32 year old leftie SP named Juan Pizarro. Anyhow, he was a perennial 20 loss pitcher with an average ERA for my dreadful first 7 seasons. In 1977, he announced during Spring Training his intention to retire at the end of the season. At the ripe old age of 40. He was a spot starter and a mop up guy by this point. Anyhow, we flourished that season under our new manager (as I mentioned in a previous thread. So, September rolls around, and he starts agitating for a new contract. 1977 was one of his better years ERA wise up until that point, and he wanted just a hair above scale, so I decided to give him another year. Besides, he was impressively popular with the fans for the losingest pitcher in franchise history. In 1978 he got off to a great start before having a major back injury that sidelined him for 13 months. But again, we reached the postseason, and again, he wanted a cheap extension. No point in hurting fan interest to save $85,000, right? In 1979 he was pretty mediocre early in the season, but after converting him to a middle reliever he was solid. So, again, extension. In his fourth decade in the majors, Juan has had ERAs of 3.14 in 1980 and 2.24 in 1981 as my primary middle reliever. He's as popular as ever, and as 1982 rolls around I'm relieved that he accepted another near-minimum extension. But what I'm wondering is: This guy is going to be 45 before the 1982 season starts. I know that's not totally without precedent, but he seems to be getting better lately (in results if not in ratings). He's got seven pitches in his arsenal now, and he's also becoming a surprisingly good hitter (arguably better than some of my PHs). But since he already announced his retirement and then changed his mind before the season ended, will he announce again? Or is he just going to continue being my team's surprisingly popular elderly middle reliever into the future... Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of cutting him loose, but I'd sort of hoped he'd eventually become a pitching coach or something so I could have him on my payroll in that capacity.

04-19-2007, 05:53 PM	#2
dangarion All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Orange, CA Posts: 569	This is pretty neat. I'd like to know what happens to him. I don't have an answer for you though. __________________ DanGarion GM - Los Angeles Dodgers The Peanuts and Cracker Jack Baseball League PCJBL!

04-19-2007, 06:10 PM	#3
AZTarHeel All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 1,549	Sounds like a great dynasty thread to me -- and I, too, have no answers for you... (sorry) __________________ From the Way-Back Machine (Old dynasty stories): Tale Tales: The Andrew Zarzour Story The Steve Victory Story: Tournament Dreams College Basketball! The Arizona League 3.0: Historical players in the Grand Canyon state Baseball In The Tar Heel State: A Fictional Experience The Arizona League: Real Players. Fictional Teams

04-19-2007, 09:22 PM	#4
sflcat Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 119	Lucky dice rolls? __________________ GM, Miami Sharks, IHOF Founder & President, SFL GM, Oklahoma Outlaws, GEFL Read my "Sports and History Dynasty"

04-20-2007, 11:32 AM	#6
TheeeeeeeeeYankeesWin Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 72	Ageless Wonders Sounds pretty realistic actually. Thats how these mid-40's guys hang around- year by year small contracts and they keep putting up respectable numbers. THE AGELESS MASTERS There are a bunch of guys who come to mind: Julio Franco (looks younger now than he did 10 years ago) Jesse Orosco (This IS Juan Pizzaro) Roger Clemens (o.k. he still dominates so he's a freak) Jamie Moyer Rickey Henderson (proud to say I say him in his prime and he was THE most exciting player I have ever seen. Seeing Ricky on 1st base was worth the admission price by itself) Dennis Martinez Nolan Ryan (the man with the golden arm) Tommy John Phil Niekro (knuckle ball still effective) Gaylord Perry (nail filer still effective) Jim Kaat Pete Rose (helped that he was chasing Cobb) Hoyt Wilhem (another knuckleballer; pitched until he was 49 and unhittable right up until his retirement- career 2.52 ERA! 5 sub 2.00 ERA seasons in a row after age 40!!!) Satchel Paige (what could have been? Probably won 500 games and pitched 7,000 innings) Warren Spahn (363 wins despite getting his first win at age 25; 250 to 300 high quality innings EVERY season for 17 straight!) Cy Young (aka Cy Old - five 30-wins seasons and ten 20-win seasons he kept pitching in an era when most pitchers were burnt out after five seasons) Cap Anson (3,000 hits despite seasons averaging less than 100 games!) Harry Wright (Baseball's first elder statesmen - proved that guys over 40 could still play with the kids) __________________ "The phrase 'off with the crack of the bat', while romantic, is really meaningless, since the outfielder should be in motion long before he hears the sound of the ball meeting the bat."- Joe D.

04-20-2007, 08:20 AM	#5
Ksyrup Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 413	1982 huh? This is perfect. Send him to the Mets and let him pass the torch to Jesse Orosco.

04-20-2007, 04:03 PM	#7
sraffa Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1	Pizzaro was a fine pitcher during the 1960s, ran into arm troubles, and was basically washed up by the early 70s. In 1974, he was released by the Astros around opening day. But in August, the Pirates were in their stretch run and had serious depth problems and signed Pizzaro. He pitched very well in 2 spot starts and a few relief appearances, with an ERA of 1.88 in 24 IP. Basically it was a fluke; no one really thought he could suddenly pitch again, and the Pirates dropped him after losing in the NLCS. My guess is that at somepoint the game is recalcing his ratings based on the fluke 1974 performance, and figuring that a guy with a 1.88 ERA at age 37 has a decent chance of being able to pitch into his mid-40s. There are plenty of examples of middle relivers and spot starters hanging on into their 40s with some effectiveness; a lot of them lefties like Pizzaro.