Players not developing when..........

DrSatan · 07-23-2008, 01:16 PM

Has anyone noticed that when you switch a historical player from pitcher to hitter, that their ratings don't change? I changed Babe Ruth and Lefty O'Doul to outfielders and their ratings/potential never changed one bit. I noticed it with Ruth early, so I bumped up his ratings thinking he would start and everything would be fine. His ratings never changed after that. The same thing happend with O'Doul. I'm using the Lahman Database.

Spritze · 07-23-2008, 02:27 PM

Do you have recalc on or developement on or both or neither? Are you using the built in Lahman or some other external one? Scouting on or off?

Recalc only occurs after your current season and playoffs finish.

Development occurs willy-nilly as near as I can tell.

Just changing a players position will not change his ratings.

Bumping ratings doesn't change things visually until the player gets rescouted.

I only use Girl Scouts in my leagues! (No face-gen however)

DrSatan · 07-23-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Do you have recalc on or developement on or both or neither? Are you using the built in Lahman or some other external one? Scouting on or off?

Recalc only occurs after your current season and playoffs finish.

Development occurs willy-nilly as near as I can tell.

Just changing a players position will not change his ratings.

Bumping ratings doesn't change things visually until the player gets rescouted.

I only use Girl Scouts in my leagues! (No face-gen however)

Recalc off, Development on, no scouts, Lahman database. It only happens with players that I change from pitcher to hitter. All other players develop normally. Talent randomness is set to 100.

Spritze · 07-23-2008, 03:28 PM

How much "game" time has passed?

Do the ratings stay the same in subsequent years no matter how old the player gets? If so development is not functioning for some reason for these players.

DrSatan · 07-23-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

How much "game" time has passed?

Do the ratings stay the same in subsequent years no matter how old the player gets? If so development is not functioning for some reason for these players.

Yeah, the players ratings/talent do not change over their entire career, but only for these players. ALL other players are fine. It did it with Sam Rice also.

Simon_Nesbit · 07-24-2008, 06:23 AM

Same here. Batter to pitcher works fine. Pitcher to Batter doesn't.

A 'batter' with great pitching talent - change to a pitcher and he will develop. Leave as a batter, and he'll never develop his pitching - also can only pitch 50% as long.
A 'pitcher' with great batting talent - doesn't matter what you do, his ratings will never change.

Development needs to be based on AB/IP rather than primary positional rating.

This would also allow for "dual" players to be created - as the in-game engine can now handle this (I think - positional players on the field changing to pitcher like any other defensive position) - it's only a matter of the development/rating part catching up.

silentrob · 07-31-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon_Nesbit

Same here. Batter to pitcher works fine. Pitcher to Batter doesn't.

A 'pitcher' with great batting talent - doesn't matter what you do, his ratings will never change.

Have any of you folks found a solution to this dilemma? I am (very slowly) playing a league that begins in the 1800s where players changed positions from batter to pitcher and back all the time. It would be good to know if my league can handle the changes.

Would the other solution be to simply reimport the player when he changes positions and delete the old player? I guess that could work, though it would delete the career stats from the previous position. Maybe there is a utility that will put the stats back in the player file, or a way to do it manually, but I am not well-versed with doing such things to know how that would work.

Simon_Nesbit · 07-31-2008, 10:10 PM

I'm don't know, but I'm guessing the "recalc based on real stats" - if you set it to 1, it would import both batting and pitching ratings for that season?

Honestly don't know - i tend to have more fictional historical than a true historical.

silentrob · 08-01-2008, 12:52 AM

I am playing a real historical league, but without the recalc, so this is a real dilemma. Another solution I am considering, though a rather unscientific one, would be to just look at the remaining career of the player and change his ratings manually on a yearly basis. It would keep my busy for quite a while in the early years, later on not so much. Maybe not a very good solution, but better than never having the ratings change.

Spritze · 08-01-2008, 02:11 PM

The dilemma I am having is this does work for me.

Babe Ruth changes from a pitcher to a batter and his ratings change as he ages.

Martin DiHigo does the same.

So do Smokey Joe Williams and Smokey Joe Wood.

I have been trying a few settings to see if I can recreate this challenge but so far no go. There is nothing inherently different about a player who starts as a pitcher and then converts to a different position than any other player.

silentrob · 08-01-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

I have been trying a few settings to see if I can recreate this challenge but so far no go. There is nothing inherently different about a player who starts as a pitcher and then converts to a different position than any other player.

Hopefully I'll have the same experience. As I mentioned above, I'm moving rather slowly in my league due to unfortunate responsibilities like work, so I'm just starting the 2nd year of the league. I guess I'll keep an eye on it and see how things go for me. Though at the rate I'm playing, this thread will be long dead before I have long enough careers to draw any conclusions from.

silentrob · 08-12-2008, 01:00 AM

Just as an update on this, the players who have changed from pitcher to batter that I am tracking have shown no development or changes so far for me. Though its only been 2 years, and all guys are in the prime of their careers. And with a ratings scale of 2-8, it may take a while for the changes to be significant enough to change the ratings. But so far I have seen no movement.

Spritze · 08-12-2008, 07:19 PM

I'm using the 1-100 scale and do see changes yearly so maybe it is just the scale you are using. A 10 point change on my scale can be a nothing on your scale.

bobfalconi · 08-13-2008, 01:15 PM

In my experience the Hold Runners rating acts as a flag to whether a player is a pitcher or batter. So if the Hold Runners rating is 0, he develops as a hitter and his pitching ratings (stuff, etc.) are frozen. If the rating is anything other than 0 he develops as a pitcher and his batting ratings (eye, power, gap, etc.) are frozen and do not develop.

I'm new to the game but I've done a lot of research into this because this was driving me crazy until I figured it out.

So if you want you can manually change a pitcher to a hitter by exporting the roster and changing the Hold Runners rating. You can't do it by editing the ratings as commissioner because you aren't allowed to set a rating to 0.

Hope that helps.

silentrob · 08-13-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

I'm using the 1-100 scale and do see changes yearly so maybe it is just the scale you are using. A 10 point change on my scale can be a nothing on your scale.

That just gave me the idea to temporarily change to the 1-100 scale just to get the numbers, return to 2-8 for gameplay, then check back later to see if there is any change on the larger scale.

Simon_Nesbit · 08-14-2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobfalconi

In my experience the Hold Runners rating acts as a flag to whether a player is a pitcher or batter. So if the Hold Runners rating is 0, he develops as a hitter and his pitching ratings (stuff, etc.) are frozen. If the rating is anything other than 0 he develops as a pitcher and his batting ratings (eye, power, gap, etc.) are frozen and do not develop.

I'm new to the game but I've done a lot of research into this because this was driving me crazy until I figured it out.

So if you want you can manually change a pitcher to a hitter by exporting the roster and changing the Hold Runners rating. You can't do it by editing the ratings as commissioner because you aren't allowed to set a rating to 0.

Hope that helps.

Good news for those who like to match up historical players if true. Can anyone verify (I'm away from my game computer atm)?

Doesn't help genuine 2-way players however. (My "Gladiator Ball" League - 12 players per team, all can bat, all can pitch, not in OOTP).

silentrob · 08-21-2008, 02:03 AM

Well, to report back on my league, after 4 seasons the players who switched from batter to pitcher have not developed in any way, even on the 100 point scale. So now I will attempt the roster export and change as suggested above. Have to hope this does the trick.

silentrob · 08-21-2008, 02:27 AM

Well, I made the attempt to export the rosters, make the changes, then re-import. Except the game crashes when I try to import the file. I've been running 9.1.2 because I hadn't had any crash issues until now. But this doesn't appear on the list of crashes the new patch is supposed to fix, unless I just missed it on the list somewhere. Any ideas on what to do now?

Bob Meta-Meusel · 08-28-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon_Nesbit

Same here. Batter to pitcher works fine. Pitcher to Batter doesn't.

A 'batter' with great pitching talent - change to a pitcher and he will develop. Leave as a batter, and he'll never develop his pitching - also can only pitch 50% as long.
A 'pitcher' with great batting talent - doesn't matter what you do, his ratings will never change.

Development needs to be based on AB/IP rather than primary positional rating.

This would also allow for "dual" players to be created - as the in-game engine can now handle this (I think - positional players on the field changing to pitcher like any other defensive position) - it's only a matter of the development/rating part catching up.

The engine can't handle it yet. I created a two-way player and tried to see what would happen with him, and on the days when he pitched, if it was a non-dh league he would occupy two spots in the batting order, and if it was a dh league there wouldn't be that problem, but the computer still wanted him in two positions when playing defense. I'm pretty sure the only way it could be made to work is to personally manage every game for the team.

Have people simming 1919 with Ruth noticed this?

07-23-2008, 01:16 PM	#1
DrSatan All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 588	Players not developing when.......... Has anyone noticed that when you switch a historical player from pitcher to hitter, that their ratings don't change? I changed Babe Ruth and Lefty O'Doul to outfielders and their ratings/potential never changed one bit. I noticed it with Ruth early, so I bumped up his ratings thinking he would start and everything would be fine. His ratings never changed after that. The same thing happend with O'Doul. I'm using the Lahman Database.

08-01-2008, 02:11 PM	#10
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	The dilemma I am having is this does work for me. Babe Ruth changes from a pitcher to a batter and his ratings change as he ages. Martin DiHigo does the same. So do Smokey Joe Williams and Smokey Joe Wood. I have been trying a few settings to see if I can recreate this challenge but so far no go. There is nothing inherently different about a player who starts as a pitcher and then converts to a different position than any other player. Last edited by Spritze; 08-01-2008 at 06:20 PM.

07-23-2008, 02:27 PM	#2
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Do you have recalc on or developement on or both or neither? Are you using the built in Lahman or some other external one? Scouting on or off? Recalc only occurs after your current season and playoffs finish. Development occurs willy-nilly as near as I can tell. Just changing a players position will not change his ratings. Bumping ratings doesn't change things visually until the player gets rescouted. I only use Girl Scouts in my leagues! (No face-gen however)

07-23-2008, 03:28 PM	#4
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	How much "game" time has passed? Do the ratings stay the same in subsequent years no matter how old the player gets? If so development is not functioning for some reason for these players.

07-24-2008, 06:23 AM	#6
Simon_Nesbit Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 260	Same here. Batter to pitcher works fine. Pitcher to Batter doesn't. A 'batter' with great pitching talent - change to a pitcher and he will develop. Leave as a batter, and he'll never develop his pitching - also can only pitch 50% as long. A 'pitcher' with great batting talent - doesn't matter what you do, his ratings will never change. Development needs to be based on AB/IP rather than primary positional rating. This would also allow for "dual" players to be created - as the in-game engine can now handle this (I think - positional players on the field changing to pitcher like any other defensive position) - it's only a matter of the development/rating part catching up.

07-31-2008, 10:10 PM	#8
Simon_Nesbit Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 260	I'm don't know, but I'm guessing the "recalc based on real stats" - if you set it to 1, it would import both batting and pitching ratings for that season? Honestly don't know - i tend to have more fictional historical than a true historical.

08-01-2008, 12:52 AM	#9
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 230	I am playing a real historical league, but without the recalc, so this is a real dilemma. Another solution I am considering, though a rather unscientific one, would be to just look at the remaining career of the player and change his ratings manually on a yearly basis. It would keep my busy for quite a while in the early years, later on not so much. Maybe not a very good solution, but better than never having the ratings change.

08-12-2008, 01:00 AM	#12
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 230	Just as an update on this, the players who have changed from pitcher to batter that I am tracking have shown no development or changes so far for me. Though its only been 2 years, and all guys are in the prime of their careers. And with a ratings scale of 2-8, it may take a while for the changes to be significant enough to change the ratings. But so far I have seen no movement.

08-12-2008, 07:19 PM	#13
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	I'm using the 1-100 scale and do see changes yearly so maybe it is just the scale you are using. A 10 point change on my scale can be a nothing on your scale.

08-13-2008, 01:15 PM	#14
bobfalconi Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6	In my experience the Hold Runners rating acts as a flag to whether a player is a pitcher or batter. So if the Hold Runners rating is 0, he develops as a hitter and his pitching ratings (stuff, etc.) are frozen. If the rating is anything other than 0 he develops as a pitcher and his batting ratings (eye, power, gap, etc.) are frozen and do not develop. I'm new to the game but I've done a lot of research into this because this was driving me crazy until I figured it out. So if you want you can manually change a pitcher to a hitter by exporting the roster and changing the Hold Runners rating. You can't do it by editing the ratings as commissioner because you aren't allowed to set a rating to 0. Hope that helps.

08-21-2008, 02:03 AM	#17
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 230	Well, to report back on my league, after 4 seasons the players who switched from batter to pitcher have not developed in any way, even on the 100 point scale. So now I will attempt the roster export and change as suggested above. Have to hope this does the trick.

08-21-2008, 02:27 AM	#18
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 230	Well, I made the attempt to export the rosters, make the changes, then re-import. Except the game crashes when I try to import the file. I've been running 9.1.2 because I hadn't had any crash issues until now. But this doesn't appear on the list of crashes the new patch is supposed to fix, unless I just missed it on the list somewhere. Any ideas on what to do now?