Fixing the earned runs legacy bug should be OOTP's number one priority! - Page 2

statfreak · 07-14-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

That begs the question of what you are doing out of OT.

I'm starting my campaign for head to head again. Mr Kuffrey assured me it would be in OOTP 3 and I'm still waiting... patiently.

As to the topic of this thread, I agree, but am not stark raving mad about it.

statfreak · 07-14-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Sign me up General MD. This is a war worth fighting.

MD has disciples.

silvam14 · 07-14-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statfreak

I'm starting my campaign for head to head again. Mr Kuffrey assured me it would be in OOTP 3 and I'm still waiting... patiently.

As to the topic of this thread, I agree, but am not stark raving mad about it.

I'm still waiting for OOTP online

Killing Time · 07-14-2010, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Sign me up General MD. This is a war worth fighting.

Sign me up too.

actionjackson · 07-14-2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killing Time

Sign me up too.

Alright, the man with the blood spattered circular saw avatar has joined our army.

We're invincible now!

Malleus Dei · 07-14-2010, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statfreak

MD has disciples.

And I shall send them to crush you!

Markus Heinsohn · 07-15-2010, 02:39 AM

It's not a bug. It is a matter of getting every weird scoring rule handled correctly, and 99% are handled correctly. The other 1% is very hard to reproduce and frankly I haven't succeeded yet. By the way, the scoring engine was completely rewritten in OOTP 11 and it is much better than before.

Malleus Dei · 07-15-2010, 08:52 AM

Well, that's honesty.

Markus, I hate to say it, but you need to do some serious work on that last 1%.

In a stats-based game the stats need to correct and reliable.

Cryomaniac · 07-15-2010, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Well, that's honesty.

Markus, I hate to say it, but you need to do some serious work on that last 1%.

In a stats-based game the stats need to correct and reliable.

I'm aware that this wont placate you, but I always rationalise that the MLB rules is overly complex and OOTP's makes more sense.

Malleus Dei · 07-15-2010, 09:41 AM

Placate me? No. Face it, if Diamond Mind can get it right, then OOTP can get it right. It's just a function of focus and effort.

OldFatGuy · 07-15-2010, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

It's not a bug. It is a matter of getting every weird scoring rule handled correctly, and 99% are handled correctly. The other 1% is very hard to reproduce and frankly I haven't succeeded yet. By the way, the scoring engine was completely rewritten in OOTP 11 and it is much better than before.

If the game needs to characterize a run as either earned or unearned the moment it is scored, then you're never going to get that 1% done.

Many instances of earned vs unearned remain open until the end of the inning. It seems (although I haven't paid as close attention to this in OOTP11 so maybe it's different), but it seems as though the game insists on characterizing a run as earned or unearned when it is scored.

Cryomaniac · 07-15-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

If the game needs to characterize a run as either earned or unearned the moment it is scored, then you're never going to get that 1% done.

Many instances of earned vs unearned remain open until the end of the inning. It seems (although I haven't paid as close attention to this in OOTP11 so maybe it's different), but it seems as though the game insists on characterizing a run as earned or unearned when it is scored.

I'm not Markus, but that's my understanding is that the game does indeed need to characterize a run as earned or unearned as soon as it is scored. This is probably due to the way the database is written to.

elmerlee · 07-15-2010, 11:53 AM

For Markus to say that this is a 1% problem is to insult the the brains of people on this board. The example below, which comes from another post is a
common problem in the game. And it should not be hard to fix no matter what some may think.

True, there are 1% or so of the scoring rules that are hard to make work. So forget them. They don't cause such mistakes enough to matter. Fix they simple things and no one will expect perfection.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Top of the inning - no outs

Batter Abel hits a triple - man on third, no outs

Batter Baker hits a single to center, centerfielder misplays the ball allowing Baker to reach second, runner Abel scores - scored 1b, RBI + E8 - man on second, no outs

Batter Charlie hits a home run, Baker and Charlie scores - bases empty, no outs

Batters Dog, Echo and Foxtrot make outs - end of inning

Official scorer charges the pitcher with 3 runs, 0 earned.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

And I have no doubt the ER computation was rewritten in OOTP11.
It is now a complete mess....and it was not previously.

Common OOTP, give the people complaining some credit. Adimit it is FUBAR and fix the d*mn thing right now so the game is playable as a simulation.

Cryomaniac · 07-15-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmerlee

True, there are 1% or so of the scoring rules that are hard to make work. So forget them. They don't cause such mistakes enough to matter. Fix they simple things and no one will expect perfection.

Notice what Markus actually said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

It's not a bug. It is a matter of getting every weird scoring rule handled correctly, and 99% are handled correctly. The other 1% is very hard to reproduce and frankly I haven't succeeded yet. By the way, the scoring engine was completely rewritten in OOTP 11 and it is much better than before.

He didn't say he wasn't going to fix it. He said that he hadn't identified the problem yet.

Malleus Dei · 07-15-2010, 12:10 PM

Elmerlee, it's not Abel, it's Able.

Able, Baker, Charlie, Dog...

Trust me on this, I was both Able Three and Baker Five.

Bahgoon · 07-15-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Elmerlee, it's not Abel, it's Able.

Able, Baker, Charlie, Dog...

Trust me on this, I was both Able Three and Baker Five.

That was my fault, not Elmer's. He just copied and pasted.

I blame lack of sleep or possibly insufficient blood caffeine levels.

elmerlee · 07-15-2010, 01:59 PM

malleus (no caps was on purpose) :

Try not being such a smart mouth.

CommishJoe · 07-15-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

Elmerlee, it's not Abel, it's Able.

Able, Baker, Charlie, Dog...

Trust me on this, I was both Able Three and Baker Five.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elmerlee

malleus (no caps was on purpose) :

Try not being such a smart mouth.

Ok, time to get back to the topic before this slides any lower.

Thanks

BusterKing · 07-15-2010, 04:23 PM

shhhhhhhhhhh,

they are busy with new features for the game.

Important stats stuff is secondary, it doesn't sell the game.

In all seriousness, we shouldn't even bring this up. Should have been priority #1 from the get go.

Le Grande Orange · 07-15-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

The other 1% is very hard to reproduce and frankly I haven't succeeded yet.

So, folks, if you are able to reproduce these incorrect scoring incidents, keep a copy of your league files handy so you can send them to Markus for analysis if requested.

07-15-2010, 02:39 AM	#27
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,806	It's not a bug. It is a matter of getting every weird scoring rule handled correctly, and 99% are handled correctly. The other 1% is very hard to reproduce and frankly I haven't succeeded yet. By the way, the scoring engine was completely rewritten in OOTP 11 and it is much better than before. __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

07-15-2010, 04:23 PM	#39
BusterKing Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,416	shhhhhhhhhhh, they are busy with new features for the game. Important stats stuff is secondary, it doesn't sell the game. In all seriousness, we shouldn't even bring this up. Should have been priority #1 from the get go. __________________ No money spent on PT

07-15-2010, 11:53 AM	#33
elmerlee Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 215	For Markus to say that this is a 1% problem is to insult the the brains of people on this board. The example below, which comes from another post is a common problem in the game. And it should not be hard to fix no matter what some may think. True, there are 1% or so of the scoring rules that are hard to make work. So forget them. They don't cause such mistakes enough to matter. Fix they simple things and no one will expect perfection. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Top of the inning - no outs Batter Abel hits a triple - man on third, no outs Batter Baker hits a single to center, centerfielder misplays the ball allowing Baker to reach second, runner Abel scores - scored 1b, RBI + E8 - man on second, no outs Batter Charlie hits a home run, Baker and Charlie scores - bases empty, no outs Batters Dog, Echo and Foxtrot make outs - end of inning Official scorer charges the pitcher with 3 runs, 0 earned. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: And I have no doubt the ER computation was rewritten in OOTP11. It is now a complete mess....and it was not previously. Common OOTP, give the people complaining some credit. Adimit it is FUBAR and fix the d*mn thing right now so the game is playable as a simulation.

07-15-2010, 01:59 PM	#37
elmerlee Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 215	malleus (no caps was on purpose) : Try not being such a smart mouth.