A poll about women's / mixed leagues

[Muzamba]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

...I played in co-ed hardball league with real mounds at the right distance and stealing allowed. Local businesses would sponsor us and we had real umpires. It was real baseball, just not professional. It had lots and lots of women players...

Eww! You played on a team with women? Weren't you worried what your friends would think of you? More importantly, don't you realize that women are crawling with cooties?!?

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Muzamba

Eww! You played on a team with women? Weren't you worried what your friends would think of you? More importantly, don't you realize that women are crawling with cooties?!?

Some of the women were downright fantastic players. We had one on our team who had been on a four year scholarship to Florida States to play softball.
She was 5'10 160 lbs and built like Venus Williams. She had a long looping all or nothing swing. She hit some of the hardest baseballs I have ever seen a non professional hit. In a 26 game season I think she hit 14 HRs and her slugging was probably .700 or so.
Instead of using nick names on our jerseys we all went with nicknames. Hers was Babe Ruthless
It was a really fun league. After I got my cooties vaccination of course.

[Carplos]

Nonsense! My question is straight up: Do you want A or do you want B? One or the other. His, on the other hand, is sneaky.

You're such a joke. Yours was just about getting another shot in that you don't want women in your baseball sim. It's another troll, just like your sig. You've been doing this crap for five years now.

Try to not let your support for his position disrupt your objectivity too much.

You complaining about someone else's objectivity? This thread is full of objective people and you're the least here. Also, I voted no, genius.

[jmm8356]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Women belong a lot of places. None of them involve playing in the MLB.

OOTP does not equal MLB exclusively.

... I want to say more, but... I'm trying to teach my son that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

I'm also teaching him that it's okay if other people hold an opinion or preference that conflicts with your own. He's nine weeks old, and he understands this better than Wolf does.

[The Wolf]

Here we go again. Personalization of the argument, meta-arguments, false assumptions, grade school silliness, uncalled-for insults. All of the usual nonsense. Quite sad, really.

The argument is about the issues, not the people having the argument.

Women don't belong in baseball. There are none in the majors. There are none in the minors. There never were any. There certainly is never going to be a women's baseball league. Based on the above, women clearly don't belong in a baseball simulation any more than hobbits, robots, trained bears or flying monkeys do.

Yet here you are, asking for that which never was or will be, and you can't understand people who are opposed to the concept? It's a silly idea, for reasons stated above, and there are ten thousand more important issues to address that aren't silly.

[jmm8356]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Here we go again. Personalization of the argument, meta-arguments, false assumptions, grade school silliness, uncalled-for insults. All of the usual nonsense. Quite sad, really.

The argument is about the issues, not the people having the argument.

Women don't belong in baseball. There are none in the majors. There are none in the minors. There never were any. There certainly is never going to be a women's baseball league. Based on the above, women clearly don't belong in a baseball simulation any more than hobbits, robots, trained bears or flying monkeys do.

Yet here you are, asking for that which never was or will be, and you can't understand people who are opposed to the concept? It's a silly idea, for reasons stated above, and there are ten thousand more important issues to address that aren't silly.

Silly is in the eye of the beholder...

... and since, jarhead, you are not my commanding officer (I sincerely hope you are not any type of officer, even an NCO)...

... and since this is still America (last I checked!)...

I will continue to ask for simple solutions (such as those previously posted in this thread) to allow the MAJORITY (or even a vocal minority) to be able to play this game in the manner of their choice.

You can be pro-choice AND anti-women... well, I'm not sure you can be, Wolf...

Pluralism is not a word taught by your typical military training officer...

because heaven forbid you have room in your head for two different thoughts.

Now you'll have to excuse me, as I have to watch Full Metal Jacket for the ninth time... Peace!

[MimesisBTG]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Women don't belong in baseball. There are none in the majors. There are none in the minors. There never were any. There certainly is never going to be a women's baseball league. Based on the above, women clearly don't belong in a baseball simulation any more than hobbits, robots, trained bears or flying monkeys do.

Again, with respect, I am not compelled by this argument. It doesn't seem to me that just because women haven't been in baseball yet and just because you personally can't conceive of a women's baseball league that we can then conclude that women "don't belong in baseball" at all.

Your argument reads to consist in two parts. In the first case, the fact that there has never been a women's baseball league doesn't automatically preclude it's possibility. By way of example, there hasn't been an Asian-American US president yet either, but that doesn't mean we'll never have one. In the second case, your certainty that there is never going to be a women's baseball league seems to have proved unconvincing to some in the thread, myself included, as you have yet to give a compelling reason for precluding this possibility (or at least one that has convinced me!).

Moreover, I'm not sure on what authority anyone can tell a woman who dreams of being a professional baseball player where she does and doesn't belong. Just my

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Here we go again. Personalization of the argument, meta-arguments, false assumptions, grade school silliness, uncalled-for insults. All of the usual nonsense. Quite sad, really.

The argument is about the issues, not the people having the argument.

Women don't belong in baseball. There are none in the majors. There are none in the minors. There never were any. There certainly is never going to be a women's baseball league. Based on the above, women clearly don't belong in a baseball simulation any more than hobbits, robots, trained bears or flying monkeys do.

Yet here you are, asking for that which never was or will be, and you can't understand people who are opposed to the concept? It's a silly idea, for reasons stated above, and there are ten thousand more important issues to address that aren't silly.

Ok I see your point on this, but the same could have been said about the negro player prior to 1947, yet they r among the all time leaders.

Why do people keep arguing this thread? this place died 5 days ago.

[jmm8356]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Ok I see your point on this, but the same could have been said about the negro player prior to 1947, yet they r among the all time leaders.

Why do people keep arguing this thread? this place died 5 days ago.

Ooookay, I quit, if you insist.

Wolf can have the last 1000 words until the powers that be lock the thread... *cough*blowhard*cough*

Peace! Deuces!

[The Wolf]

More insults, more personalization, more meta-arguments. Even a whole post full of total, invented falsehood. Sad.

Of course, when your argument consists of "I want women in the game, even though they aren't, never have been, and never will be in the real game, because, dammit, I just want women in the game" then your best strategy probably DOES consist of trying to shut down any and all opposition by insults, attempts to degrade your opposition personally and making meta-arguments. Just like they tell rookie lawyers to yell and pound on the table when the law and the facts are against them and they have no real case to make.

If your excuse for an argument prevails, though, do realize that you're setting a valid precedent for demanding that aliens, robots, hobbits, trained bears, wombats, midgets, honey badgers, etc. be added to the game.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

If your excuse for an argument prevails, though, do realize that you're setting a valid precedent for demanding that aliens, robots, hobbits, trained bears, wombats, midgets, honey badgers, etc. be added to the game.

Hobbits have been in the game since 2003....at least in one league.

And with that, this thread is looking way too familiar to this thread, and this thread, and it's probably time to have it share their fates.

[Muzamba]

All I can say is I feel sorry for any little Wolf cubbies out there. They're probably never allowed to have an imagination and play make believe.

PSUColonel showed a lot of class and earned my respect, not by changing his opinion, but by acknowledging that others have a right to their own opinion and don't deserve to be ridiculed for it.

Wolf, on the other hand, continues to definantly provoke and insult those he disagrees with. That's why, to me, this is personal. There have probably been a dozen different people in this thread who have expressed their opposition to the idea laid out in the poll/OP. Yet Wolf is the only one who insists on continuing to disrespect his fellow board members. Of course, none of this should come as any surprise, as he's demonstrate a history of this sort of behavior in other threads.

I think it says something, though, when a person is so determined to show their arrogance and contempt that they manage to alienate others who are on the same side of the debate.

Not that someone like this particularly cares what I - or anyone else for that matter - think, but it's this antipathy that has made me lose all respect for Wolf as a person.

I will continue to support many of his ideas and suggestions and will even offer a "thanks" when he posts something I agree with in regards to the game, but I have no respect for someone who shows such impudence toward others and their opinions.

(Btw, +1 on the idea of closing this thread, because as long as it remains open and certain people are allowed to keep insulting others, I'll continue to feel compelled to offer my perspective.)

[Le Grande Orange]

I think it's somewhat silly to say, "No! OOTP must never have that option!"

MLB doesn't have restricted and unrestricted free agent classes, but I'd like to see it in the game someday because the other pro sports leagues use that system and I think it would add a different and interesting way of structuring one's OOTP league.

The question is really, as always, one of priority—what potential features should be worked on first before other potential features. That's where the debate really lies.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I think it's somewhat silly to say, "No! OOTP must never have that option!"

Agreed. As I've always made clear in this thread, this option should never be considered a high priority, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it.

[Carplos]

Yet Wolf is the only one who insists on continuing to disrespect his fellow board members. Of course, none of this should come as any surprise, as he's demonstrate a history of this sort of behavior in other threads.

This. I was trying to find a couple old (as in pre-OOTP 2006) threads that had some old info LGO posted so I was going through my subscribed threads from back then and they're full of the exact same stuff from Wolf. Five years he's been doing it.

That's where the debate really lies.

But that's the silly thing--that part isn't even a debate. Nobody is suggesting women should be a high or even medium priority.

[The Wolf]

[QUOTE=canadiancreed;3133369]Hobbits have been in the game since 2003....at least in one league. [\QUOTE]

That's a mod. Those who oppose to women being officially in the game don't appear to oppose a private women's mod. The problem is that the people who want women in the game don't want a mod. They want women to be part of the main game, which means dev time and support, which means that the actual baseball game suffers for the sake of their fantasy.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Carplos

But that's the silly thing--that part isn't even a debate. Nobody is suggesting women should be a high or even medium priority.

Agree to them only being in the game as part of a mod, like hobbits, and not as part of the official game and the argument will be over.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Agreed. As I've always made clear in this thread, this option should never be considered a high priority, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it.

Cry, what's your problem with it being done as a mod?

[Carplos]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Agree to them only being in the game part of a mod, like hobbits, and not as part of the official game and the argument will be over.

Nah.

Mods can't add FaceGen support or add a new name set so people don't have to override others.

LOL SUX4U.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Carplos

Nah.

Mods can't add FaceGen support or add a new name set so people don't have to override others.

LOL SUX4U.

Then we fight. Forever.