19th Century Pitching speeds+

sflcat61 · 12-24-2011, 09:58 AM

Started a historical season in 1871 and noticed that most of the pitchers have velocities of 90+. I realize that even though pitchers still threw underhand at this point, the game had evolved to the point it resembled fast-pitch softball, but I'm thinking 90+ is a little extreme. Do you historical players try to tweak the ratings to get this down, or do you just leave it alone?

Spritze · 12-24-2011, 12:25 PM

There are a bazillion things like this sprinkled throughout the game. Ignoring or fiddle withing depends on personal preference. Makes pretty much no nevermind to how the game plays out.

prodgers · 12-24-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflcat61

Started a historical season in 1871 and noticed that most of the pitchers have velocities of 90+. I realize that even though pitchers still threw underhand at this point, the game had evolved to the point it resembled fast-pitch softball, but I'm thinking 90+ is a little extreme. Do you historical players try to tweak the ratings to get this down, or do you just leave it alone?

I just leave it alone. Not sure when overhand pitching became the norm, but I do know the first guy to throw a curve was from back then. I also happen to know it's very difficult to throw an underhand curveball. Also it wasn't until the late 1930s (Bob Feller to be exact) that the pitching speeds were actually measured (or attempts made along those lines) so no real evidence to my knowledge exists on how fast any pitcher threw back in the day. Also and again I not sure of this but I believe the pitching speeds from a game perspective are simply window dressing. They might have something to do with a pitchers Stuff rating but I'm not sure. If they do I wouldn't want to tweak them anyway.

Lee · 12-24-2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflcat61

Started a historical season in 1871 and noticed that most of the pitchers have velocities of 90+. I realize that even though pitchers still threw underhand at this point, the game had evolved to the point it resembled fast-pitch softball, but I'm thinking 90+ is a little extreme. Do you historical players try to tweak the ratings to get this down, or do you just leave it alone?

The mound or pitching box, was closer back then too, so I just kind of equate to modern fast pitch softball, where a pitch travelling 70 mph from 45 feet away, is comparable to a 90 mph fastball from 60

Curve Ball Dave · 12-26-2011, 11:37 PM

Underhand pitching did not last very long. All restrictions on the pitcher's delivery were lifted beginning in 1884. The pitcher's box was replaced with the rubber in 1893 and the distance was moved back to 60' 6" the same year. The move was due in large part to the fact the pitchers had become too fast. Amos Rusie in particular is believed to the pitcher that prompted the change.

Biggio509 · 01-02-2012, 08:53 AM

One thing to note is the delivery did not have to be underhand. Tommy Bond was known for stretching the rule that the hand below the waist when delivering the ball. He used a low side arm movement that came just below the top of his belt. There were complaints he was releasing too high.

Velocity and pitch are not historically matched. The DB has no data no on it. They are just there to determine stuff. I am surprised with as bad as stuff in this year high velocities show up. The compensation is crappy individual pitch quality.

12-24-2011, 09:58 AM	#1
sflcat61 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 117	19th Century Pitching speeds+ Started a historical season in 1871 and noticed that most of the pitchers have velocities of 90+. I realize that even though pitchers still threw underhand at this point, the game had evolved to the point it resembled fast-pitch softball, but I'm thinking 90+ is a little extreme. Do you historical players try to tweak the ratings to get this down, or do you just leave it alone?

12-24-2011, 12:25 PM	#2
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	There are a bazillion things like this sprinkled throughout the game. Ignoring or fiddle withing depends on personal preference. Makes pretty much no nevermind to how the game plays out. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

12-26-2011, 11:37 PM	#5
Curve Ball Dave Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,330	Underhand pitching did not last very long. All restrictions on the pitcher's delivery were lifted beginning in 1884. The pitcher's box was replaced with the rubber in 1893 and the distance was moved back to 60' 6" the same year. The move was due in large part to the fact the pitchers had become too fast. Amos Rusie in particular is believed to the pitcher that prompted the change. __________________ "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing"-Warren Spahn.

01-02-2012, 08:53 AM	#6
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	One thing to note is the delivery did not have to be underhand. Tommy Bond was known for stretching the rule that the hand below the waist when delivering the ball. He used a low side arm movement that came just below the top of his belt. There were complaints he was releasing too high. Velocity and pitch are not historically matched. The DB has no data no on it. They are just there to determine stuff. I am surprised with as bad as stuff in this year high velocities show up. The compensation is crappy individual pitch quality. Last edited by Biggio509; 01-02-2012 at 08:55 AM.