Suspension - Page 2

Fyrestorm3 · 06-01-2013, 01:39 PM

I feel like football's vastly different from baseball when it comes to players going to/returning from jail...

r0nster · 06-01-2013, 01:52 PM

Remember Steve Howe. He was suspended I think like 7 times. I think Baseball is very forgiving. I think now they have a 3 strike your out rule. I do not recall if anybody has hit that 3 strike yet ?

rudel.dietrich · 06-01-2013, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Mike Vick managed it in the NFL (but he was a bit younger than 35 when he was released).

He served 23 months in prison vs 60 for our fictional catcher. He was a pro bowl QB and younger.

Here we have a 30 year old catcher who is just barely above league average who is about to lose 5 years of his life.

Also, while dog fighting and violating NYC carry laws are repugnant. I believe that financial crimes are in a whole different territory when it comes to sports.

Financial crimes are considered to fall closely with gambling and throwing games. When the very core of professional athletics is threatened (i.e. competition) then players are dealt with much more harshly.

I don't see Mr. Adam getting another job in baseball.

But this is me trying to apply logic to a fictional digital baseball situation

rudel.dietrich · 06-01-2013, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

What about Plaxico Burress? He was in jail for what was it...2 years?

Just over 22 months

Questdog · 06-01-2013, 02:36 PM

Vick wasn't in jail for 5 years, however, he was in Federal Prison and came back to play....

The OP could reinstate the player in 5 days, if he wanted....or 5 minutes....

P.S. What is worse? Cheating with PED's or betting on your team to win? PED's get you 50 games, betting gets you life....kind of stupid...

P.S.#2: Ugueth Urbina was released from jail for attempted muder of his farm hands........let's see if he tries to come back.....he's 39....

rudel.dietrich · 06-01-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Vick wasn't in jail for 5 years, however, he was in Federal Prison and came back to play....

The OP could reinstate the player in 5 days, if he wanted....or 5 minutes....

P.S. What is worse? Cheating with PED's or betting on your team to win? PED's get you 50 games, betting gets you life....kind of stupid...

P.S.#2: Ugueth Urbina was released from jail for attempted muder of his farm hands........let's see if he tries to come back.....he's 39....

Betting on baseball is far far far worse. It's odd that people don't understand why.

While PED use is certainly cheating and should be monitored and punished.
Betting on a sport is the worst possible thing that can happen.

Once you introduce betting, you open up a wide range of possibilities that threaten the very core of the sport. Even if you bet on sports other than your own, or do not bet on your own team. It is a short distance between those possibilities and the possibility of betting against your own team.
And once your sport losses credibility with it's audience through creating doubt that what the audience is seeing is actually real, then that becomes the largest problem you can possibly have.

PED use is cheating, but ultimately it is trying to help yourself and your team win.
Betting can possibly lead to altering the outcome of the sport by throwing the results.

This is why you see sports organizations react so harshly to players betting. Reputation takes a lifetime to earn but can be lost in one day.

I think 50 games for PED use and a lifetime ban for connections to gambling sound about right.

Questdog · 06-01-2013, 03:51 PM

It was common practice for players in the 19th century to gather a pool that they'd stake against the other team on the outcome of the game........betting on your own team to win is no big deal......your argument is akin to those Reefer Madness movies of the old days where they claimed marijuana use was terrible, not because it was bad in and of itself, but because it would certainly lead to other, much worse, debauchery......

Show me a man willing to put his money on the line to back his own efforts and I see a man commited to winning.....

"And once your sport loses credibility with it's audience through creating doubt that what the audience is seeing is actually real, then that becomes the largest problem you can possibly have."

If you don't think the above statement pertains to PEDs, then you are not seeing things in the proper perspective.....

Postman · 06-01-2013, 04:01 PM

Even betting on your own team is bad. It represents a possible conflict of interest in that it makes winning a single game more important than it would be in the context of the entire season. For example, a manager with money on a particular game could be motivated to use up more relievers than he otherwise would if he were worried as much about subsequent games.

Questdog · 06-01-2013, 04:29 PM

I'm not saying it should be condoned......however, Leo the Lip always said you shouldn't save a pitcher for tomorrow, 'cause if you do, it's sure to rain......always go all out to win today and let tomorrow take care of itself........though Leo was probably bettin' on the games, too.....

I'm just saying PEDs are a worse crime, and it's laughable that players only get a slap on the wrist (50 games compared to a lifetime ban is a slap on the wrist).....

Gambling is not bad in and of itself.....if I am playing poker and betting on my hand to win, then it is a legitimate contest....if I'm playing poker and betting that the fellow across the table is going to win, then we have something shady going on....

byzeil · 06-01-2013, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

I'm not saying it should be condoned......however, Leo the Lip always said you shouldn't save a pitcher for tomorrow, 'cause if you do, it's sure to rain......always go all out to win today and let tomorrow take care of itself........though Leo was probably bettin' on the games, too.....

I'm just saying PEDs are a worse crime, and it's laughable that players only get a slap on the wrist (50 games compared to a lifetime ban is a slap on the wrist).....

Gambling is not bad in and of itself.....if I am playing poker and betting on my hand to win, then it is a legitimate contest....if I'm playing poker and betting that the fellow across the table is going to win, then we have something shady going on....

I think the reasoning that even betting on your own team to win is so bad is that if you end up loosing enough bets and end up in debt to the bookie you could then be pressured into throwing games for the bookies benefit.

Cryomaniac · 06-02-2013, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

He served 23 months in prison vs 60 for our fictional catcher. He was a pro bowl QB and younger.

Here we have a 30 year old catcher who is just barely above league average who is about to lose 5 years of his life.

Also, while dog fighting and violating NYC carry laws are repugnant. I believe that financial crimes are in a whole different territory when it comes to sports.

Financial crimes are considered to fall closely with gambling and throwing games. When the very core of professional athletics is threatened (i.e. competition) then players are dealt with much more harshly.

I don't see Mr. Adam getting another job in baseball.

But this is me trying to apply logic to a fictional digital baseball situation

IIRC the majority of Vick's sentence was for money laundering / illegal gambling.

06-01-2013, 02:36 PM	#25
Questdog Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases...... Posts: 16,142	Vick wasn't in jail for 5 years, however, he was in Federal Prison and came back to play.... The OP could reinstate the player in 5 days, if he wanted....or 5 minutes.... P.S. What is worse? Cheating with PED's or betting on your team to win? PED's get you 50 games, betting gets you life....kind of stupid... P.S.#2: Ugueth Urbina was released from jail for attempted muder of his farm hands........let's see if he tries to come back.....he's 39.... Last edited by Questdog; 06-01-2013 at 02:48 PM.

06-01-2013, 03:51 PM	#27
Questdog Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases...... Posts: 16,142	It was common practice for players in the 19th century to gather a pool that they'd stake against the other team on the outcome of the game........betting on your own team to win is no big deal......your argument is akin to those Reefer Madness movies of the old days where they claimed marijuana use was terrible, not because it was bad in and of itself, but because it would certainly lead to other, much worse, debauchery...... Show me a man willing to put his money on the line to back his own efforts and I see a man commited to winning..... "And once your sport loses credibility with it's audience through creating doubt that what the audience is seeing is actually real, then that becomes the largest problem you can possibly have." If you don't think the above statement pertains to PEDs, then you are not seeing things in the proper perspective..... Last edited by Questdog; 06-01-2013 at 03:53 PM.

06-01-2013, 01:39 PM	#21
Fyrestorm3 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts Posts: 2,928	I feel like football's vastly different from baseball when it comes to players going to/returning from jail...

06-01-2013, 01:52 PM	#22
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,047	Remember Steve Howe. He was suspended I think like 7 times. I think Baseball is very forgiving. I think now they have a 3 strike your out rule. I do not recall if anybody has hit that 3 strike yet ?

06-01-2013, 04:01 PM	#28
Postman Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Evergreen, CO Posts: 322	Even betting on your own team is bad. It represents a possible conflict of interest in that it makes winning a single game more important than it would be in the context of the entire season. For example, a manager with money on a particular game could be motivated to use up more relievers than he otherwise would if he were worried as much about subsequent games.

06-01-2013, 04:29 PM	#29
Questdog Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases...... Posts: 16,142	I'm not saying it should be condoned......however, Leo the Lip always said you shouldn't save a pitcher for tomorrow, 'cause if you do, it's sure to rain......always go all out to win today and let tomorrow take care of itself........though Leo was probably bettin' on the games, too..... I'm just saying PEDs are a worse crime, and it's laughable that players only get a slap on the wrist (50 games compared to a lifetime ban is a slap on the wrist)..... Gambling is not bad in and of itself.....if I am playing poker and betting on my hand to win, then it is a legitimate contest....if I'm playing poker and betting that the fellow across the table is going to win, then we have something shady going on....