Basketball 1-on-1 -- need help and encouragement

For some time I am nurturing the idea of creating a basketball simulator similar to Title Bout (but I don't like box). In the game a player would choose two NBA players (I'd get stats from basketball-reference) and then there will be a simulation of 1-on-1 till 11 (or other number) points. With comments OOTP style. An addition of tactics is possible.

I am a rookie in programming but understand Delphi. Do you have any ideas what to add in the game or how to implement something? And what's more important: would you like to see this game if I'd make it?


Would you like to match Michael Jordan circa 1991 and LeBron James circa 2013? Or Chamberlain and Abdul-Jabar?

[slic1149]

Originally Posted by dmytron

For some time I am nurturing the idea of creating a basketball simulator similar to Title Bout (but I don't like box). In the game a player would choose two NBA players (I'd get stats from basketball-reference) and then there will be a simulation of 1-on-1 till 11 (or other number) points. With comments OOTP style. An addition of tactics is possible.

I am a rookie in programming but understand Delphi. Do you have any ideas what to add in the game or how to implement something? And what's more important: would you like to see this game if I'd make it?


Would you like to match Michael Jordan circa 1991 and LeBron James circa 2013? Or Chamberlain and Abdul-Jabar?

If you are interested in doing this I would recommend you get Bill Simmons The Book of Basketball to help select the players for your game. It seems to me you would only want to put star players into a one on one game, but you need at least a thousand or so from throughout history to give the game some replay value. Simmons book along with your current interest in the game should give you a good player base. By the way, if you have the knowledge to place great Olympians, from all over the world, in your game, that could also be of interest.

[rudel.dietrich]

To be perfectly honest. I would have no interest in a 1 on 1 game.

Basketball is a team game and many skills like passing, playing in a defensive system and off the ball movement would be wasted.

And while a player like Bill Russell is one of the greatest 5 players of all time. He would fair poorly in a 1 on 1 game.
Someone like Vince Carter or Allen Iverson (who are top 50 but not on Russells level) would dominate.
Russel cannot score outside of 10 feet and much of his value was locked up in being the greatest defensive player of all time and rebounding.
Much of his defensive value was wrapped in bolstering his teams defense.


Not to crush your dream. I admire you for wanting to program your own game.
But since you asked my opinion. I think a 3 on 3 basketball sim would be a much better idea.
It would offer something different than standard 5 on 5 play but would allow a player to use his full range of skills.

I have always wondered how a team of say Michael Jordan, Bill Russell and Lebron James would do against Hakeem Olajuwon, Oscar Robertson and Kevin Durant.

A 3 on 3 game with all time greats would be incredibly interesting.

Thanks for the answers. In a prospect I would like to add all significant players from basketball-reference.com ().

I'd like to create not 1-on-1, but complete 5-on-5 with substitutions and overtime, but is this possible with stats from b-r.com? If somebody helped me with algorithms or ideas how to implement it would be perfect. Programming alone is hard.

1-on-1 is good 'cause all you need is stats for FGA, FG%, 3PA, 3P%, blocking and stealing. That's all.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by dmytron

Thanks for the answers. In a prospect I would like to add all significant players from basketball-reference.com ().

I'd like to create not 1-on-1, but complete 5-on-5 with substitutions and overtime, but is this possible with stats from b-r.com? If somebody helped me with algorithms or ideas how to implement it would be perfect. Programming alone is hard.

1-on-1 is good 'cause all you need is stats for FGA, FG%, 3PA, 3P%, blocking and stealing. That's all.

Michael Jordan was an exceptional defender. Kobe Bryant claims to be the best one on one basketball player in the world.

Pete Maravich had extraordinary one on one skills, that didn't translate well into the NBA game.

Rudel is right..better a 3 on 3 game..better still, if you are looking at a statistical game, just go to PC Action Sports, and buy Dave Koch's excellent basketball game. It's been done.

[slic1149]

I agree that a 3 on 3 would be better. However, I also like the 1 on 1 because of the ability to PLAY not sim a game in just 5 or 10 minutes. I suspect that figuring how to cross the time barrier might be a challenge. While I want George Mikan in the game I also want him to be able to compete with Tim Duncan, otherwise why play the game.

I don't know whether this is of interest to you but how about putting in a game of Horse. Maravich vs. Bird could be a lot of fun. The way you implement the gameplay is actually going to be more important than just getting stats from Basketball Reference. If you want this project to be of interest to gamers the most important task is creating a fun game.

Questions you might want to ask yourself. How can I implement tactics into the program? How can I standardize playing style so historical players can compete against bigger and more athletic modern players? Would Horse offer a different and interesting gameplay mode? It seems to me that creating a game with dozens of different types, difficulties, and lengths of shots, where a game could be played in a few minutes might generate some interest.

Creating the type of sim you are talking about could generate some interest. You might even want to take a look at doing this as a tablet app. Playing a quick game of 1 on 1 while waiting in an airport or a Doctor's office might be able to reach an interested market.

[Goody]

I think Gary Payton would be very good 1 on 1. Better defense than some of the star offensive players nowadays.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Goody

I think Gary Payton would be very good 1 on 1. Better defense than some of the star offensive players nowadays.

A Kobe-MJ game, with each in their prime, would be something. Both have massive egos, and are very tough competitors.

Thanks. In this case, I have a list of question that help me continue working on the game (don't forget that it will be as awesome as awesome a rookie game can be). The questions:

1. What game modes would you like to see in the game?
2. What tactics can be used in 1-on-1? And how they can be connected with stats? For the current moment I think of 2pt/3pt shots frequency slider and stealing/blocking frequency slider.
3. How to calculate season normalization? I mean, how to "correct" stats of older players so they will be on level with current, as slic1149 said, athletic players? Maybe, use something like season average?
4. How by using stats from b-r.com calculate stealing percentage?
5. What are the most significant players to be added in the database?

This is my current work on interface of the game. You can see a screenshot of the "Game" tab.

The commentary text is dummy. Name, last name and season are loading from the classes Player1 and Player2. Tabs above will be hidden; I keep them now 'cause it's easier to program this way.

Interface is far from complete but it will make you visualise how I see the game in my mind.

[slic1149]

Originally Posted by dmytron

Thanks. In this case, I have a list of question that help me continue working on the game (don't forget that it will be as awesome as awesome a rookie game can be). The questions:

1. What game modes would you like to see in the game?
2. What tactics can be used in 1-on-1? And how they can be connected with stats? For the current moment I think of 2pt/3pt shots frequency slider and stealing/blocking frequency slider.
3. How to calculate season normalization? I mean, how to "correct" stats of older players so they will be on level with current, as slic1149 said, athletic players? Maybe, use something like season average?
4. How by using stats from b-r.com calculate stealing percentage?
5. What are the most significant players to be added in the database?

I think the crux of the game has to be player ratings. Obviously you will be basing your ratings on stats, to some degree. Using ratings seems to be the only viable way to achieve player normalization. My advice would be to look at all different sports sim rating systems and then try to develop a rating system that makes sense for your program.

From a fun factor standpoint the questions I would ask myself would be things like, can Jordan's agility make up for Chamberlains size, would Havilicek's endurance be able to wear down Barkley's strength, and so on. The advantage of doing a 1 on 1 game is player comparison and time invested. The disadvantage is the effort you would have to expend on rating each individual player.

Once again, I would strongly urge you to investigate doing this as an app instead of a program. A full blown computer program would have to have at least a thousand players to be viable. OTOH, you might be able to get by with 50 to a 100 players with an app. A 1 on 1 game would be considered a 10 minute time waster instead of an afternoon long sim. In addition your audience might be a little more forgiving of your ratings system.

EDIT: I would suggest you start with the top 10 players at each position as rated by Simmons in his basketball book. Set up a series of ratings at different basketball skills. Things like ball handling, dunks, shooting etc. the more ratings you can develop for each player, the more interesting and individual you can make them. It seems to me this is all about creating interesting players whose gameplay skills, as accurately as possible, measure their real life skills.

I upload the first raw version of BONOM.

ATTENTION: Work is still in progress!

It's very raw but to some extent playable. Test it and tell me your thoughts about it.

Here is the link: Download BONOM-181013.rar from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way Unpack the archive to a created folder and run an executable. I devloped it on Windows but maybe it runs on other systems with emulators (Wine etc.).

[yougo1000]

Just downloaded. My AV said since it was so new it was a virus. It deleted it but I restored it. Did 2 Michael Jordan vs Magic Johnson matchups and Johnson is 2-0. Really enjoying it so far.

Here's new IN PROGRESS version of BONOM: Download BONOM-111113.zip from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

Changes:

• no more play-by-play, just simulation;
• ability to simulate till 10000 points;
• player stats viewable with charts;
• almost complete game stats;
• player screen name can be changed.

There is a nasty bug that occasionally shows 'Access Violation' after simulation. In this case shut the program down in Task Manager.