How much does work ethic matter?

[Mr. Baseball]

Just how much emphasis does OOTP actually put on work ethic?

I've always wondered just how much it matters. I know it has an impact, but should it really be a deciding factor? Does anyone have research on this?

[MrDov]

I hope at least some because I use that as a tool when drafting players

[rpriske]

I considered putting some effort into finding the answer to this, but I couldn't be bothered.

[RchW]

My impression is that work ethic has an effect somewhat proportional to talent. So for a highly talented player it may have little effect, but for a medium or low talent player it may be a tie breaker.

[Déjà Bru]

Take a look at the online manual. I believe it mentions work ethic (and intelligence) have an effect on player development. Maybe not on someone with outstanding ratings otherwise (I'm talking blue, not green) but surely on lesser players as Rich says.

I have a bit of empirical evidence to offer. I have noticed that the AI will pass up decently rated players in the amateur draft who have low or very low marks in work ethic (and intelligence). It appears to me that the AI avoids this type of player for the reason stated above.

[HolyCow98]

After the first round I start to look at work ethic (and intelligence) a lot more. Even in the first round I'll use it as a tie breaker if everything else is pretty much equal.

I hope it helps...but I just like to know that as a organization I'll have very few lazy dumb guys.

[Mr. Baseball]

I did some digging. This isn't very factual based but still might interest some.

Though I can't calculate exact percentages because OOTP won't let me filter players by work ethic, I eye-balled each level in my league to see if there were more players with higher work ethics at higher levels. I discovered that as I went down from the major league all the way to Single-A, the lower levels I went to, the more 'very low' or 'low' work ethic players occupied roster spots. The difference was actually pretty significant.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

I did some digging. This isn't very factual based but still might interest some.

Though I can't calculate exact percentages because OOTP won't let me filter players by work ethic, I eye-balled each level in my league to see if there were more players with higher work ethics at higher levels. I discovered that as I went down from the major league all the way to Single-A, the lower levels I went to, the more 'very low' or 'low' work ethic players occupied roster spots. The difference was actually pretty significant.

I think the reason for that is, as has been pointed out, Work Ethic directly affects Player Development. I'm not sure how; maybe it's used as a coefficient or raises/lowers the TCR, but it definitely factors in. So, low Work Ethic players have a greater chance of not getting a Player Development bump, and therefore tend to remain in A or AA.

Which really helps to prove that yes, Work Ethic should be a factor in your draft decisions - though it likely won't matter as much if the low Work Ethic guy you're thinking of acquiring is already a proven big leaguer.

[injury log]

There is the possibility that players with bad Work Ethic are worse (lower potential) players to begin with than players with good Work Ethic.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by injury log

There is the possibility that players with bad Work Ethic are worse (lower potential) players to begin with than players with good Work Ethic.

True, there's a ton of variables. Either way, I think we can safely agree that Work Ethic does matter, to some degree, and should factor into personnel decisions.

[Cowboys3356]

The way I have always understood it is that players with a higher work ethic are more likely to get positive player development bumps and they also get them more frequently. Players with low work ethic are more likely to get no bumps or to get negative hits to their ratings.

Players with a higher intelligence rating are more likely to learn a new pitch or to learn a new position much faster. I have seen the position learning thing a lot as I often use the Force Start option on my minor leaguers to teach them new positions (making them more useful in the MLB as bench players) and the ones with the higher Intelligence ratings always learn the new position faster.

[nebradska]

Something I've been curious about lately is if work ethic affects longevity. That is, are hard working players more likely to have long careers before they start to decline significantly?

[Isryion]

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

Just how much emphasis does OOTP actually put on work ethic?

I've always wondered just how much it matters. I know it has an impact, but should it really be a deciding factor? Does anyone have research on this?

Some very general numbers for my own online league, which began in 13. 20 team league, 4 minors, 0.40 Random Talent Development.

We found that things were neatly split into 1/3s. Of all players generated by the game file 1/3 were normal, another 1/3 was below normal, and the final 1/3 above normal.

When looking at just the majors, roughly 20% of the players there had a below normal work ethic. Because the data was about a specific point made, we didn't look at it beyond that, unfortunately.

For example, as someone else mentioned, were there fewer low work ethic players in the majors because they didn't make it, or because they flame out earlier?

However, our conclusion was that work ethic mattered, but not as much as people thought (or would like, maybe), and I don't know that it should be. If it all high work ethic players became stars and no low work ethic players did, the rest of the information about a player would be worthless.

For me, there are two times I consider work ethic:
1) When a player is very close to another player in other respects.
2) When I'm adding very young players to my minors in FA, especially when they don't have potential ratings that would project them to be big leaguers anyway.

[Mr. Baseball]

So here's another question for you guys.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, do older players with higher work ethic remain dominant longer as they age while lower work ethic players tend to fade quicker? Just a thought.

I always factor in work ethic when I'm thinking about signing an older player to a longer deal.

[pjh5165]

Originally Posted by Isryion

However, our conclusion was that work ethic mattered, but not as much as people thought (or would like, maybe), and I don't know that it should be. If it all high work ethic players became stars and no low work ethic players did, the rest of the information about a player would be worthless.

For me, there are two times I consider work ethic:
1) When a player is very close to another player in other respects.
2) When I'm adding very young players to my minors in FA, especially when they don't have potential ratings that would project them to be big leaguers anyway.

Completely agree. I'm very relieved that work ethic does not seem to have a very large effect on players. I think it should matter to a small degree (basically just players with very similar ratings), but anything more would make it start to seem like a small exploit for the human players to me.

[Isryion]

Originally Posted by pjh5165

Completely agree. I'm very relieved that work ethic does not seem to have a very large effect on players. I think it should matter to a small degree (basically just players with very similar ratings), but anything more would make it start to seem like a small exploit for the human players to me.

Right. And it would be ridiculous if it were too telling or more important than potential ratings (because what would be the point of them then).

To clarify, it can affects all players, but I think it's just one of many factors in a player's development. My point with it with similar players was that all other things being equal, I choose the high work ethic guy, but that doesn't guarantee he'll develop more for sure. I'm just trying to maximize the things I am aware of and can control.

[Isryion]

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

So here's another question for you guys.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, do older players with higher work ethic remain dominant longer as they age while lower work ethic players tend to fade quicker? Just a thought.

I always factor in work ethic when I'm thinking about signing an older player to a longer deal.

One way to test it for your league is look at players over 32 or 33. How many of them have higher than normal work ethic? Is it in greater proportion than the rest of your major league?

I haven't looked, but I take it into account when looking at the length of the contract. In general, though, it is a gain a minor factor because any kind of player can suddenly drop, so I prefer not to give long term deals (4-5 years and I don't go beyond that) to anyone over 33 except for the absolute best players.

[pjh5165]

Originally Posted by Isryion

To clarify, it can affects all players, but I think it's just one of many factors in a player's development. My point with it with similar players was that all other things being equal, I choose the high work ethic guy, but that doesn't guarantee he'll develop more for sure. I'm just trying to maximize the things I am aware of and can control.

Yeah I understand that it can affect all players and is just a small factor. What you described doing is exactly how I use work ethic in player evaluation and in my opinion that is basically all it should be used for.

I was trying to say that in my last post but I may not have used the best word choice.

[FlyTheW1104]

Originally Posted by rpriske

I considered putting some effort into finding the answer to this, but I couldn't be bothered.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

rather profound