Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[Terry D]

Originally Posted by Merkle923

I'm trying to remember why I dismissed Lavalliere as a candidate when that Topps image appeared several months ago. I still don't think it's him.

Firstly, Lavalliere was never on a Phillies' spring training roster - not to say he wasn't in camp - we're going to have to hit old media guides to check that out.

Secondly, there is a photo of Lavalliere with the Phils in '84, and though the build is similar I don't think the facial matchups are close. Freckles? Curly hair? The one advantage we have is, this second pose shows his uniform number. It's a starting point.

Lavalliere wore Number 10 in his few games with the Phillies in 1984. I don't know if that is necessarily an accurate guide to who this guy is, because numbers do get switched around between spring training and the season. No Phillie wore 52 in a major league game until 1984 (Francisco Melendez). The only other player who wore the number in the 80's (from when both these vault shots would seen to date) was Todd Frohwirth. So if it's not Spanky then it is still a mystery.

[UKBaseballfan]

Included on Detroit composite team photo for 1910 and identified as Perry IF.

Clay Perry a third baseman played for Detroit in 1908.
Hank Perry an outfielder played for Detroit in 1912.

Appearance and position suggest Clay Perry to be the better fit.

[Buccos]

If I may: The mystery Phillie is *not* Mike Lavaillere.

Because it's not his face, that's why.

[Terry D]

Originally Posted by Buccos.com

If I may: The mystery Phillie is *not* Mike Lavaillere.

Because it's not his face, that's why.

Any alternative theories?

[Terry D]

I am intrigued by the challenge. Maybe we need to look at minor league archives?

Here are the catchers the Phillies drafted between 1975 and 1985.

1975: Joe Jones, Roman Roberto, Dave Baker, Marc Thomas, Louis Reyes, Dave Van Gorder
1976: Eddie Williams, Ozzie Virgil Jr., George Bertstrom
1977: Dave Walker, Anthony Capps, Stuart Miller, Edward Cuervo
1978: Ed Hearn, Michael Henson, Jeff Ulrich, Derek Williams
1979: David Harrigan, Brian Henderson
1980: Henry Powell, Doug Maggio, Jerome Kovar, Darren Daulton
1981: Vin Soreca, Todd Smith, Adolph Crump, Todd Ezold, John Russell
1982: Kevin Walters, David Vernon
1983: Max Floyd, Timothy Meert
1984: Darren Loy, Robert Gsellman, Eric Bennett, Ray Roman
1985: Trey McCall, Jeff Kaye, Alex Alvarez

Don McCormack (a few games in 80-81) was drafted in 1974. Keith Moreland was drafted in '75 as a 3B. Lavalliere was also drafted as a 3B, converted to catching for or during the 1982 season.

Hmmm....maybe it's Ed Hearn? Some of the facial aspects (eyes) look a little similar to me. Does anyone have a good close up of Ed? Also...where in the Topps Vault alphabet does our mystery man fall?

[Jabez54]

[keonleafs]

Originally Posted by Terry D;3777007 [B

Also...where in the Topps Vault alphabet does our mystery man fall?[/B]

That's the knot of the problem to ID this guy. The alphabetical order for Topps Vault's HF series, particularly for numbers 468 to 559 is really "wicky wacky", in total disorder. Our catcher, at HF480-481 is sandwiched between Dave Thies, KC A's HF478-479 and Brian Buckley, Angels HF482-483. Just to show another example, a little bit further, at HF494, we have Valo, then Farkas, Doug Cook, Stephen Viefhaus, Sheffing...

But, at the moment, I think your guess may be the best...a very "young" Lavalliere.

[Merkle923]

I'm going to have access to Phillies' '70s-'80s media guides, probably after Thanksgiving. Should be solvable then based on the uniform number.

[UKBaseballfan]

Ernie Harwell collection

[UKBaseballfan]

1887 Detroit Wolverines

[Cusick]

Originally Posted by UKBaseballfan

Included on Detroit composite team photo for 1910 and identified as Perry IF.

Clay Perry a third baseman played for Detroit in 1908.
Hank Perry an outfielder played for Detroit in 1912.

Appearance and position suggest Clay Perry to be the better fit.

I found an article in the August 13, 1909 issue of the Chicago Tribune which indicated that Detroit had farmed Clayton Perry out to Little Rock. Baseball-reference.com indicates that Clayton played 140 games with Little Rock in 1909, so he must have been there all season, but the Tribune article at least provides evidence of a continuing affiliation with Detroit well into 1909. I agree that the appearance of your photo also looks like Clay, so I think you have the right identification.

[tnfoto]

Facepack upgrade and 1910 Boston Doves (Braves) uni.

[tnfoto]

Facepack upgrade and 1911 Boston Rustlers (Braves) uni.

[tnfoto]

1905 Giants.

[UKBaseballfan]

1908 Cleveland Naps

[UKBaseballfan]

1923 Detroit Tigers

[Merkle923]

...I don't want him to subsume the thread but since it started here, with any luck it ends here.

#52 on a Phillies' 1978 spring training program just shown to me is a non-roster catcher named John Hughes. There's a photo of him, sadly shielded by that mask, in the '78 Phillies yearbook - but the eyes, eyebrows, nose and mouth look like very similar - and the helmet clearly shows number 52.

Looks like a tentative match.

[UKBaseballfan]

1910 Chicago White Sox

[Terry D]

Originally Posted by Merkle923

...I don't want him to subsume the thread but since it started here, with any luck it ends here.

#52 on a Phillies' 1978 spring training program just shown to me is a non-roster catcher named John Hughes. There's a photo of him, sadly shielded by that mask, in the '78 Phillies yearbook - but the eyes, eyebrows, nose and mouth look like very similar - and the helmet clearly shows number 52.

Looks like a tentative match.

I think you may have nailed it.

[Cusick]

This is a photo of Dale Jones from 1958 when he was a scout with the Phillies. I verified with the scouting database on the HOF website that the date and place of birth for the scout matched those of the major league player.