Stats Only

[smithtm]

The Wolf and others, I'm working on putting a Stats Only league of my own together and, although I'm not sure how exactly I'm going to set this up, I was hoping some of you that play could answer a few questions for me. I looked through this thread as well as the other that The Wolf put a link to on page one. Hopefully these are easy to answer.

1. With your fictional stats only league, do you have your game set up to generate International Free Agents? I'm leaning towards no and just using my feeder leagues for players.

2. When it comes to feeder leagues, do you normally have more high school than college teams? Or doesn't it matter and it's my preference.

3. Storylines.... I'm thinking of turning these off, as I really don't want an "outside influence" to mess with my league. I'm also disabling league evolution.

4. Minor leagues...I'm going with AAA, AA, A, and Rookie Leagues, and currently have the roster limits at 25, 25, 30 and 35. I've seen some set to no limit for all levels, some set to 25 for each level except rookie that's no limit. Wondering what most of you go with here.

5. I'm thinking of keeping my league "time" constant at 1972 stats rather than changing with history, since it's fictional and I'm disabling evolution. Is this what most of you do or do you let the stats evolve over time like in real life?

6. And finally, I see that when the league creates the minors, the default is for DH in both leagues. Is there any reason to keep the DH in the minors if I plan on not using it at the Major League level?

Any info anyone would like to share, I'd appreciate. I've been playing OOTP for several versions now and although I enjoy the game, I've mainly played historical and usually end up giving up somewhere along the line. I've decided to go full into stats only and see if this is the spark that keeps me coming back day after day.

Thanks all and I look forward to hearing what all of your thoughts are.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by smithtm

The Wolf and others, I'm working on putting a Stats Only league of my own together and, although I'm not sure how exactly I'm going to set this up, I was hoping some of you that play could answer a few questions for me. I looked through this thread as well as the other that The Wolf put a link to on page one. Hopefully these are easy to answer.

1. With your fictional stats only league, do you have your game set up to generate International Free Agents? I'm leaning towards no and just using my feeder leagues for players.

2. When it comes to feeder leagues, do you normally have more high school than college teams? Or doesn't it matter and it's my preference.

3. Storylines.... I'm thinking of turning these off, as I really don't want an "outside influence" to mess with my league. I'm also disabling league evolution.

4. Minor leagues...I'm going with AAA, AA, A, and Rookie Leagues, and currently have the roster limits at 25, 25, 30 and 35. I've seen some set to no limit for all levels, some set to 25 for each level except rookie that's no limit. Wondering what most of you go with here.

5. I'm thinking of keeping my league "time" constant at 1972 stats rather than changing with history, since it's fictional and I'm disabling evolution. Is this what most of you do or do you let the stats evolve over time like in real life?

6. And finally, I see that when the league creates the minors, the default is for DH in both leagues. Is there any reason to keep the DH in the minors if I plan on not using it at the Major League level?

Any info anyone would like to share, I'd appreciate. I've been playing OOTP for several versions now and although I enjoy the game, I've mainly played historical and usually end up giving up somewhere along the line. I've decided to go full into stats only and see if this is the spark that keeps me coming back day after day.

Thanks all and I look forward to hearing what all of your thoughts are.

1. No.

2. I use the recommended number and balance them.

3. I turn them off.

4. I do full minors, standard size. I have done it at 35 for all except the Rookie League, that works too.

5. I pick an era and stick with it.

6. I have turned DH off and had DH for all. Either works. It's a personal preference.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by 84Hammy

I'm with the wolf on this one. I think the biggest challenge is the fictional set up. You very well may have a Willie Randolph on your bench, but if you give him three cracks at the lineup and he can't hit better than .230, you aren't going to keep him in, no matter if your scout tells you he is the next Willie Randolph. But since he is a fictional dude named Glenn Moffatt, you won't feel so bad.

Which is exactly how fictional works with stats only, and why you should only do SO with fictional.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by marc5477

You are sort of right. But there is nothing you can do about the AI core if you make it use stats only. You are seriously handicapping the AI because it does not seem to have the ability to think "an extra move ahead." Here is how I broke my league.

When evaluating players, what do humans do? Sure, we look at stats but we also look at player size, strength, speed, etc. In an all stats league, you obviously cannot do most of that since you are depending entirely on their historic stats. So if you are smart, you basically assume right from the front that you will never pay top dollar to anyone and you will play based on probabilities. So how do you build a great team in an all stats league? Simple. Play the numbers.

--------------- Spoilers ----------------

Rule #1 - Your farm is the key. Spend on dev and coaching. NEVER bring a player up before they are 24 years old. Reason? 1st you want the stats. 2nd, in their second major league year they will be 26 and you will have huge leverage over contracts since they are on the see-saw of make or break in their careers. You will be able to lock them into 10 year contracts for about 30%-50% of their asking price. Its important to keep them under control (see #2 below). Dont worry about being locked into long term deals. Remember, you are paying them peanuts anyway and if they ever start to stink badly, place on waivers or trade away for fodder.

Rule #2 - Do not overplay rookies and young players until you lock them into long term deals. Always bench them if one looks like they are breaking away into super stardom. Wait till they are 26 and see #1 above.

Rule #3 - Play the numbers.

Batters: Look for players with at least 600 AB, .250 BA (or slightly below your league average), .320 OBA, < 80 SO, & good fielding stats (fielding is very important). Dont worry about any other stat like HR, RBI, Runs, etc (though injuries is important). These guys will always be super cheap and odds are, since they have a good eye, they will have break out years often (50% of the time). In break out years, they will hit .275/.350 which is what you want. If you hire 10 of these guys (including bench), usually 5 will break out every season and 5 will be the same or slump. Bench the slumpers, keep the breakout guys at the top of the lineup. You will need 2 power guys at #4 and #5. You can hire 1 super star if you want or just do what I do. .250/.320 player with 20+ HR, and (most importantly) < 60 SO. Yes, low SO's is very important.

Pitching: RELIEVERS ARE THE KEY! Yes, you read that right. Why? Because they are very cheap. You can hire the best of the best for peanuts. There is no excuse for not having the best relievers money can buy on your team. Further, you can always convert these guys to closers and they will cost you very little compared to a developed closer. Relievers are your bread and butter. That said, dont bother wasting high draft picks on them because they are plentiful.

For starters: Ignore wins, & losses (they are meaningless in stats league). Here is what you want. Low number of injuries, a lot of losses, few wins, 220+ IP, 3.50-4.50 ERA, < 4 BB/9. Why? Because these guys, again, will be super cheap and odds are they were just on a very bad team. Since you are loading up on good fielders, they will be a lot better on your team and their ERA will drop to around 3.00-4.00.

Thats it. If you do all the above, you will be so flushed with money, you wont know what to do with it so:

Rule #4 - Abuse your money. Use it on the draft and development. You know all those impossible draftees that the AI ignores due to demands? Yep, you should take them. Raise your development budget, and in 5-6 seasons your AAA team will be better than some AI major league teams. You will pump out one super star caliber player almost every year and if you follow #1 and #2 above, you will have them in their prime, and locked into 10 year contracts. (remember to give young ones minor league extensions to keep them on till 24ish). As you can see, it snowballs after that.

With this makeup, you will play about .500 the 1st 3-4 seasons (1st season usually sucks for me). In breakout years, you will go up as high as .600. Once your farm is pumping out stars in 4-5 years, the game will be over.

--------------- End Spoilers ----------------

There are a few work-arounds if you want to give the AI a chance in stats only mode.

#1, You can basically give the AI unlimited money. In this case, it really does not matter if they over pay for a mediocre players. (does not solve the AI farm disadvantage)

#2 Cut your total income to about 1/2 of league average. There are many ways to do this. (probably needs to be closer to 1/3).

#3 No minor leagues or feeders... kinda lame for an all stats league but since the AI sucks at drafting, contracts, and minor league management, it evens out the playing field... actually this is probably still not enough.

My 2 cents

This post has me interested!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

This post has me interested!

It shouldn't. It does not work unless you have foreknowledge of who the good players are going to be. In a fictional stats only league, it's impossible to do.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by smithtm

The Wolf and others, I'm working on putting a Stats Only league of my own together and, although I'm not sure how exactly I'm going to set this up, I was hoping some of you that play could answer a few questions for me. I looked through this thread as well as the other that The Wolf put a link to on page one. Hopefully these are easy to answer.

1. With your fictional stats only league, do you have your game set up to generate International Free Agents? I'm leaning towards no and just using my feeder leagues for players.

2. When it comes to feeder leagues, do you normally have more high school than college teams? Or doesn't it matter and it's my preference.

3. Storylines.... I'm thinking of turning these off, as I really don't want an "outside influence" to mess with my league. I'm also disabling league evolution.

4. Minor leagues...I'm going with AAA, AA, A, and Rookie Leagues, and currently have the roster limits at 25, 25, 30 and 35. I've seen some set to no limit for all levels, some set to 25 for each level except rookie that's no limit. Wondering what most of you go with here.

5. I'm thinking of keeping my league "time" constant at 1972 stats rather than changing with history, since it's fictional and I'm disabling evolution. Is this what most of you do or do you let the stats evolve over time like in real life?

6. And finally, I see that when the league creates the minors, the default is for DH in both leagues. Is there any reason to keep the DH in the minors if I plan on not using it at the Major League level?

Any info anyone would like to share, I'd appreciate. I've been playing OOTP for several versions now and although I enjoy the game, I've mainly played historical and usually end up giving up somewhere along the line. I've decided to go full into stats only and see if this is the spark that keeps me coming back day after day.

Thanks all and I look forward to hearing what all of your thoughts are.

Yes - to give your fielders more playing time (hitting) When it comes to minor league players, you need to play them if you want them to develop. If you have a log jam at a certain position you can always DH one of them so he at least develops his bat. Once the log jam clears (either he or others move up/down) you can start playing him in the field again to help that development. It doesn't make sense to not be playing kids in the minors.

Note - this is only my preference/opinion.

[Trebro]

I realize this is going to vary a bit from person to person, but how much of a world do you set up? Generally 1 MLB-style league, with 30 teams? Do you add any international leagues or indie leagues for flavor/addl stats opportunities?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Trebro

I realize this is going to vary a bit from person to person, but how much of a world do you set up? Generally 1 MLB-style league, with 30 teams? Do you add any international leagues or indie leagues for flavor/addl stats opportunities?

Set up either an MAL or a custom fictional league, with full minors and the correct number of feeder leagues. Nothing else.

[saturn2187]

Originally Posted by marc5477

You can use historic rookies and there is an option that has the AI valuate the historical rookies higher to balance the things out. But after the draft... the AI has no clue. Thus you will see a lot of HOFers in FA at low prices and the AI will not pick them up. The problem is, you, a human, knows these guys are super stars, while the AI only sees stats. I actually made a request that the AI use the same custom draft filter on free agents to insure some big stars dont get undervalued. There was a season in one of my games where I had a real stupid team. Ken Griffey Jr (off a injury plagued season), Frank Thomas (after he had a so so season), Edmonds, Glavine and bunch of others (i think I had 9 or 10 super stars on that team) and none of them made much money at all. It was a laughable season and I started a new league after that.

Sorry to go back to this theme. I hear and understand everything that's been said about the Historical Players in a Stats Only league. I'm considering setting up a house rule for myself not to draft them and only acquire them after they've been in MLB for a couple seasons. Should be enough time for the CPU to at least give them a somewhat more reasonable valuation. Think this might eliminate some of the advantage?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by saturn2187

Sorry to go back to this theme. I hear and understand everything that's been said about the Historical Players in a Stats Only league. I'm considering setting up a house rule for myself not to draft them and only acquire them after they've been in MLB for a couple seasons. Should be enough time for the CPU to at least give them a somewhat more reasonable valuation. Think this might eliminate some of the advantage?

No. You will always know what their potential is. Use pure fictional. Otherwise you are far better off playing a vanilla game.

[Go Middies]

I've started an MLB stats-only league. It's now 2019, I expanded to 32 and took an expansion team (The Idaho Vandals (I'm a Navy fan but the Vandals are cool)). Did the expansion draft after one season at the Cubs and drafted only via stats and history.

It's awesome.

Seriously, if you've never done S.O., try it. Now, I've left fielding ratings on since you need something to grade fielding on (scouts process fielding in their reports so why can't I have it?) and I've left the stars on using only my scout's and not OSA at all with teh 50-33-17 system.

It's awesome.

The rookie draft is truly hit or miss and when one of your picks hits it's pure elation. My first pick as the GM of the Vandals just won the ERA crown in 2018 as we hit our first playoff season.

When you can pick up an All Star from a salary dump using only stats and history and turn him into the franchise leader in just about every offensive category except SB (Brandon Belt), it's just great.

I'll never go back to ratings. You've won another over, Wolf.

[mmarra82]

Playing stats only, in the off season, need to free up some cash for free agency, you think it is ok to gain some cash by reducing scouting spending? Or, do you still need to invest in scouting to get the international players and have a sense of how a player is along with his stats?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Go Middies

It's awesome.

Seriously, if you've never done S.O., try it....I'll never go back to ratings. You've won another over, Wolf.

Welcome aboad!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by mmarra82

Playing stats only, in the off season, need to free up some cash for free agency, you think it is ok to gain some cash by reducing scouting spending? Or, do you still need to invest in scouting to get the international players and have a sense of how a player is along with his stats?

I wouldn't reduce money from scouting, no. But it's your game, play it your way.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by mmarra82

Feeder Leagues

Want to do 30 rounds for real MLB type draft instead of 35. Is 3 college and 2 high school enough feeder leagues?

I believe a real MLB draft has 40 rounds

[PSUColonel]

Part of the problem with stats only (also ratings play for that matter), and also using less than normal accuracy (I have at times even wondered if higher accuracy should be used) is because the player development depth charts, as well as the top prospect lists are based on actual ratings, so you automatically know which players the AI values.

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Damn, you guys can be persistent. Okay. Turn off ratings and stars and be sure to check the box for the AI not to use ratings in its player evaluations. Set your AI evaluation criteria to 0% ratings, 50% current year, 33% last year, 17% two years ago. Set scouts on and to average accuracy or lower if you dare. Use feeder leagues, both HS and college. If it's a fictional league, sim ahead for five years or so, that cycles the feeder leagues and gives every player a statistical history that you can use for evaluation.

Hey, when you set the AI settings like that, does the AI take into account the league? For example will it judge a guy that hit 25 HRs in an indy league the same as a guys that hit 25 in a ML?

[The Wolf]

The game appears to me to always make player judgements in context.

But I'm not Markus. You should ask him.

[mmarra82]

began the stats only, simmed 2014 season using feeder leagues and took over for a team that fired their GM and finished under .500. Ended up with the A's who are in financial hell. Can't unload any of the high contracts and their prospects were unloaded for help during the 2014 season when they were still in it. Going to be some tough sledding here to get them to be competitive.

Early May in 2015, team is 5-13 with an ERA over 6. The only positive is that we are hitting homeruns, the obvious is we are giving up a ton of home runs.

[NYM Fan 31]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Damn, you guys can be persistent. Okay. Turn off ratings and stars and be sure to check the box for the AI not to use ratings in its player evaluations. Set your AI evaluation criteria to 0% ratings, 50% current year, 33% last year, 17% two years ago. Set scouts on and to average accuracy or lower if you dare. Use feeder leagues, both HS and college. If it's a fictional league, sim ahead for five years or so, that cycles the feeder leagues and gives every player a statistical history that you can use for evaluation.

Now take over a team. Do not be in Commissioner mode. Do not be unfireable. Start making decisions about players based on stats and scouting reports. Suddenly discover that the game is far, far harder than when you could see ratings and potentials.

You will either love the uncertainty or you will hate it. You will make some great trades and some awful ones. Some of your draft choices will be crap, and some will be golden. You will find yourself agonizing over player decisions - is your third baseman just in a slump or is this the beginning of the end for him? Is your catcher ever going to return to his pre-DL form, or will he be a shadow of what he was from now on? Why does your bullpen suck so badly? Should you draft this guy or that guy? Damn, you're thinking like a real-life GM.

And that's because without ratings and without potentials, you will actually have to make decisions just like a real GM does, and not like an all-knowing video gamer. And you will suddenly find yourself thinking like a GM and dealing with limited information like GM's do.

To me, it's the best way to play OOTP. But it's not for everybody, and you may not like it. But there is a hard core of stats only players who do think it's the best way to play, and if you try it you may find out you are one of us. Or not. But what have you got to lose by trying it? You already bought the game.

"It's your game, play it your way." My way is stats only. Maybe it's your way, too. Maybe it's not. Try it and see.

I'm gonna try this out. The game is too easy for me. I don't see a "box" to check for the AI not to use ratings in player evaluations. I did set the AI evaluation ratings to your percentages though.