Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[DeweyintheHall]

Have the 1979 YB image (and the YB, too). Yes - it is color. But, the true prize would be in the old red-hats! All I've ever seen is this, a black and white with Pawtucket and the Senior League card. When the TV recently released a lot of "La"s, I got my hopes up, only to have them dashed...

[FatJack]

Originally Posted by Terry D

I am once again looking for some 80's players, Mets in this case. The Metropolitans made a uniform change in '82, making it hard to find certain guys in one outfit or the other.

I am looking for the following players in the 1978-81 uniform:
1. Ed Lynch
2. Scott Holman

I am looking for the following players in the 1982 uniform:
1. Joel Youngblood (prior to his trade late that season to Montreal)
2. Tom Hausman (prior to his trade late that season to Atlanta)
3. Phil Mankowski (got into a few games that year--all the Mets pictures I have seen so far show him in the earlier uniform)
4. Tom Gorman (if it is DEFINITELY from the '82 or '83 seasons)
5. Ronn Reynolds (if it is DEFINITELY from the '82 season, his debut year)

Photos that have not appeared in major card issues are what I am looking for. Thanks a lot as always, guys.

[PS: Walt Terrell should be added, if the shot is DEFINITELY from the '82 or '83 seasons. Thanks.]

I agree with Merkle that a legitimate White Whale is a player you can't find a picture of with a given team, period. Here's a perfect illustration of where I have difficulty with the year specific uni definition. I can absolutely guarantee you that the Joel Youngblood picture, here, was taken in 1982. I could swear to it in court. ALL the pictures I bought from this particular vendor were from 1982. But the uniform doesn't say that (doesn't say much of anything). Meanwhile, the Tom Gorman...I haven't got a clue what year that was taken, but the uni looks like an '82. The Gorman (and the earlier Ed Lynch, btw) are from a Jim Rowe lot I purchased from eBay.

As a Mets fan, my own White Whale list is pretty much the same as any other Mets fan (and Merkle has done a terrific job of whittling it down). I also wish there were more pictures of the Seattle Pilots in circulation than the ones we've all seen a million times (I know Topps Vault and AP still have some they're sitting on). Like Dickie Bates. Really? All we get is that same B&W and the Galasso card (and the tiny YB pic that's too small to use). Then again, the team had a very short history, so it's hard to expect a lot.

That said, some of my White Whales are career minor leaguers who should have a decent picture outside of a team photo somewhere. Two Pilots and two Mets on my current wish list:
Ron Kotick (minor league pitcher with the Angels for years and one of the few from the Pilots' 40 man roster--if not the only--I've never seen ANY picture of)
Clarence "Chico" Vaughns (there's a guy who had a long minor league career and was always "on the verge"; I've got several very bad pictures of Chico from team photos and newspapers, but I figure Topps must have shot him when he was a Phillies prospect. Just sayin'.)
Paul Womble (I honestly don't expect there to be anything on this one-time Mets prospect beyond the seriously bad YB picture; he wasn't really a prospect, honestly, but he tore up the Instructional League one year and, for a second, everybody had to re-evaluate)
Randy Trapp (Trapp was the final spring cut of the Mets one year--can't remember which year--but still got nothing better than the team photo for his troubles)

You ask, that's my supplemental WW list (beyond the usual Mets suspects).

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by FatJack

...
Two Pilots and two Mets on my current wish list:
Ron Kotick (minor league pitcher with the Angels for years and one of the few from the Pilots' 40 man roster--if not the only--I've never seen ANY picture of)...

It's pretty awful but this is all I have for Kotick, from the 30-Mar-1969 Seattle Times. He is pictured during spring training with some of his Pilots teammates.

[FatJack]

Originally Posted by tnfoto

It's pretty awful but this is all I have for Kotick, from the 30-Mar-1969 Seattle Times. He is pictured during spring training with some of his Pilots teammates.

Hey, best I've seen. Of course, it's the "only" I've seen. Looks like he's pitching tunes rather than baseballs.

[pmac]

"Am I crazy, or is this Urbano Lugo (Senior), a star pitcher in Venezuela in the '60s and '70s whose son of the same name pitched for the Angels in the late '80s?



Perhaps this is Manuel Lugo who was acquired along with Francisco Barrios from Jalisco 12/4/73

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by FatJack

Hey, best I've seen. Of course, it's the "only" I've seen. Looks like he's pitching tunes rather than baseballs.

Sure enough. Here's the full photo, with Gerry Schoen (on the phone), Buzz Stephen (on guitar), Kotick and Dick Bates.

[Cusick]

Originally Posted by FatJack

That said, some of my White Whales are career minor leaguers who should have a decent picture outside of a team photo somewhere. Two Pilots and two Mets on my current wish list:

[B

Randy Trapp[/B] (Trapp was the final spring cut of the Mets one year--can't remember which year--but still got nothing better than the team photo for his troubles)

Randy Trapp was on the Mets' 1976 and 1977 spring rosters. I purchased this photo of him from a photographer named John Spear some years ago. Don't know what the uniform was.

[Cusick]

Originally Posted by FatJack;3843607


That said, some of my White Whales are career minor leaguers who should have a decent picture outside of a team photo somewhere. Two Pilots and two Mets on my current wish list:

[B

Clarence "Chico" Vaughns[/B] (there's a guy who had a long minor league career and was always "on the verge"; I've got several very bad pictures of Chico from team photos and newspapers, but I figure Topps must have shot him when he was a Phillies prospect. Just sayin'.)

You ask, that's my supplemental WW list (beyond the usual Mets suspects).

This is another John Spear photo, and not a very good one of Clarence Vaughns. Clarence was on the Pilots' spring roster in 1970 before they became the Brewers, and on the Brewers' spring roster in 1972.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by rico43

The Braves were, of course, largely horrible the entire decade of the 70s, but many of the obscure big leaguers (LaCorte, Collins, Autry) are starting to see the light of day. These haven't. Not looking exclusively for Topps Vault, but want big league color images that aren't airbrushed Richmond or colorized:

1968: Angel (Remy) Hermoso (not called Remy in Atlanta)
1970: Aubrey Gatewood
1973: Wenty Ford (the ultimate quest)
1977: Duane Theiss (color), Mike Marshall (didn't even pose for yearbook)
1978: Hank Small (Atlanta born, one game)
1981: Matt Sinatro
1981-82: Bob Porter
1985: Dave Schuler

Also seeking Tommy Davis in Angels' uniform (1976)
Also ghost MLB player Davis (or Dave) May, Twins 1976-78

Not sure if this is close enough, but here's a spring training photo of Sinatro with the 1981-86 style hat.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by DeweyintheHall

...
Would it be possible to create some sort of index of needed player images by year and team, so that all of us could provide our want lists once? It could be shortened by not allowing duplicates (no 2 1978 John Laroses) because a single positive response could help many people.
Just curious.

Again, thanks to all who make this forum such an invaluable source of information and images.

[Long-winded history warning...]

That was my original intent in hosting the Pegasus UIN list. Eight-or-so years ago, when the project that led to this thread began, there were two distinct photo packs, the Pegasus Batters/Pitchers packs and the Facepack. The Batters/Pitchers packs include photos of players with each team on which they played, focusing on those who debuted between 1925 and 1990 while the Facepack consists of a single image for each player, manager, coach and umpire. The images in the Facepack and B/P packs were sized for in-game play, generally 90x135 or 180x270 pixels.

Over the past several years many new participants have joined the OOTP forum and participated in this thread, expanding the scope beyond the original projects. One of the primary trends I've noticed with added participation (and one that I'm fully in favor of) is the desire for larger images. 90x135 or 180x270 just doesn't seem as large today as it did a decade ago. As a group we also have many different focus areas now, whether it be eras, teams or specialties such as colorizations.

That being the case, it is probably time to consider whether it's possible and worthwhile to create a tool that will collectively track the group's "white whales." I'm open to pro/con arguments and suggestions on how best to track these, either in this thread or by PM. If enough people want to move forward with such a project, once we have a system in place I'll be happy to host and manage the list(s) much like I do the UIN list and missing player/manager/umpire lists.


To answer the earlier question about personal unicorns and white whales, my unicorns are the subjects included in the missing player, manager or umpire lists and my white whales are the players for whom I have only a single image with no primary source (original publication) information, mostly players who debuted pre-1920.

[Terry D]

Originally Posted by tnfoto

Not sure if this is close enough, but here's a spring training photo of Sinatro with the 1981-86 style hat.

Baseball reference says that Sinatro wore No. 14 throughout his playing career with the Braves. He is wearing 63 here, a high number. That suggests to me that the shot may be from spring training 1981 before final cuts had been made and final numbers assigned.

[Cusick]

Originally Posted by FatJack

That said, some of my White Whales are career minor leaguers who should have a decent picture outside of a team photo somewhere. Two Pilots and two Mets on my current wish list:

Paul Womble (I honestly don't expect there to be anything on this one-time Mets prospect beyond the seriously bad YB picture; he wasn't really a prospect, honestly, but he tore up the Instructional League one year and, for a second, everybody had to re-evaluate)

You ask, that's my supplemental WW list (beyond the usual Mets suspects).

Paul Womble led the Big Eight Conference in hitting in 1971 while playing for the University of Kansas Jayhawks. This photo is from a KU publication.

[FatJack]

Originally Posted by Cusick

Randy Trapp was on the Mets' 1976 and 1977 spring rosters. I purchased this photo of him from a photographer named John Spear some years ago. Don't know what the uniform was.

That would be the Texas League Victoria Toros (that's a T-shirt they all liked to wear--they did have a legitimate uniform top). Much appreciated. I can work with that.

Originally Posted by Cusick

This is another John Spear photo, and not a very good one of Clarence Vaughns. Clarence was on the Pilots' spring roster in 1970 before they became the Brewers, and on the Brewers' spring roster in 1972.

Loved the Evansville uni. That'll fit right in with the rest of the poor shots I've got. Best I've got, so far, is this from the Evansville team picture. Doesn't suck.

BTW, I DO check the Minor League thread regularly, so (and I know this is my fault for wish listing here, rather than there) feel free to post any such wish fulfillment over there from now on. I didn't mean to clutter up the major league thread (I, frankly, didn't think anybody would come up with anything).

Again, big thanks for your efforts Cusick (and the rest of y'alls).

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by Terry D

Baseball reference says that Sinatro wore No. 14 throughout his playing career with the Braves. He is wearing 63 here, a high number. That suggests to me that the shot may be from spring training 1981 before final cuts had been made and final numbers assigned.

True, and that's the way I was leaning, but at least in theory it could be from 1985 or 1986, when Sinatro was in AAA and Andres Thomas wore 14 for the Braves.

[rrb77]

1976-77 KC Royals ... off ebay

[baseball-birthdays.com]

I recently purchased this photo of Joe (Joseph Patrick) Walsh from eBay seller fedexit... as you can see, the blurb on the reverse dates the image to spring training 1938, but I can't seem to find anything to indicate that the Bees/Braves ever wore this cap or jersey. I've seen other pics from this general time frame of other players in similar attire... can anyone shed light on this particular uniform, especially regarding what colors were featured? You can click the pics for larger views.

[Terry D]

"Very like a whale."--Shakespeare

I suppose everyone has their own definition of a unicorn or a whale. Mine fall into several categories.

1. Guys who can't be found with a given club at all (Dave Hostetler, Bob Owchinko, Houston Jimenez, Wayne Nordhagen with the Pirates).
2. Players who can be found with a certain club, but not in a given year. This often boils down to uniform numbers and uniform variations (Phil Manowski with the '82 Mets, for example).
3. Players who have been found, but whose images are marginal or completely unusable for my purposes--too small, too badly photographed or colorized, too heavily autographed, etc. (Steve Dillard with the White Sox, Bernie Carbo with the Pirates, Barry Evans with the Yankees).
4. Players who have been found in minor league outfits that are identical or purty darn close to the major league uniform, but still aren't strictly major league shots (Randy Stein with the Iowa Cubs, Steve Jeltz with the Portland Beavers).
5. Players who have been photoshopped into major league uniforms, often poorly or in the wrong year, etc. An example I saw here is an image of Steve Owchinko as an Expo, which is actually (poorly) photoshopped from an early 80's photo of him with the A's.

As you see, my various classes of baseball fauna may not be the same the rest of you use.

[Ctrane]

Herm Holshouser - 1930

[Ctrane]

Bernie Hungling - 1922

[Ctrane]

Rollie Stiles - 1930