The DH

[RchW]

More HBP data normalized to a 2430 game ie modern day schedule for the decade 2004-1995

This shows an average of 20 more HBP per year in the AL. That is 1 extra HBP every 121 games played. I'm confident that difference is insignificant statistically and does not support the claim,

that the numbers for hit batsmen are much higher in the AL ever since the DH

The data may be different for 1994-1972 but I've shown 2 decades of data showing no such evidence and can't be bothered to check further. Anyone who continues to make this bogus claim should go to BR and do the work themselves.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by RchW

The current FA compensation rule will also go away. It clearly suppresses the FA market and actually punishes mid-level teams.

I've often seen it stated the luxury tax is also a significant factor. And certainly the luxury tax payroll threshold has not kept up with the increase in average club revenue.

For 2012 the threshold was $178 million while the average club revenue was $226.9 million. Based on that ratio, the luxury tax threshold for 2014 would have been $205.6 million as a result of the growth in average club revenue. In reality the threshold was $189 million. (And that $189 million threshold stays in place through the 2016 season.)

One thing to expect in the next CBA is a large jump in the major league minimum salary. The MLBPA seems to try and maintain a relationship between the minimum and average salaries, and the average player salary surged in 2014 but the minimum salary increase is tied to cost-of-living adjustments. A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation suggests a new MLB minimum salary of at least $600,000 for the next CBA.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

Who doesn't enjoy watching pitchers "hit." Oh. I know. Adam Wainwright.

Actually, Wainwright was vociferous about saying that it was stupid to use his injury to advocate for the DH, that he could have injured himself in any number of equally freaky ways, including carrying his daughter up the stairs at home. He's also fairly famous for being a good hitter, at least before his 2011 injury; in his first full season (2007), he hit .290/.323/.387, and his career OPS is still over .500. The 0-for-10 this year is aberrational, not representative. In fact, IIRC, it was Wainwright who gave LaRussa the impetus to start hitting the pitcher 8th; he was clearly having a better year at the plate than Adam Kennedy (.572 OPS in '07) and so LaRussa started flipping them and then Tony began to see the logic in hitting the pitcher 8th, no matter whom.

Max Scherzer, OTOH, did whimper a bit about how perhaps the DH could protect his delicate little pitcher-body…and then was promptly shamed by his fellow players into walking those comments back. Indeed, I believe it was Adam Wainwright who noted that if Scherzer liked the DH so much, there was a perfectly good offer from the Tigers that he left on the table…

[RchW]

More data which I submit puts the HBP/DH increase claim to bed.

In the 4 years leading up to the DH the AL averaged 49 more HBP than the NL (normalized to 2430 games). While not statistically significant in itself, those who claim an increase in HBP in the AL due to the DH must account for some or part of that pre-existing difference in their claim.

One could speculate that the outside chest protectors worn by AL umpires at that time forced pitchers to throw "high" strikes and higher pitches generally. High pitches are more likely to hit batters in my opinion.

[rudel.dietrich]

Would not the AL have more PAs?

What is PAs per HBP?

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by RandyMyers

I have been reading this thread again and it just cracks me up.

It's a little gauche to laugh at your own jokes, I'd think. And your posts contain a good dose of (unintentionally?) humorous falsehoods.

There is no chance, none, zero, absolutely impossible, etc., etc. of ever getting rid of the DH.

Not many have predicted this, so you're arguing a straw man. DH-dislikers feel it should be eliminated, but don't predict it will be. It's the DH advocates who run around declaring that they are the "cool kids" and everybody is going to jump on their hot new trend…despite the fact that the NL has not done this in 43 years of the DH, hasn't even held a vote on the issue since 35 years ago. The last time the NL even seriously considered the DH, Jimmy Carter was in the White House and Tim McCarver was still playing.

And honestly, as a whole baseball fans prefer the DH game.

Except for the pesky fact about the NL consistently outdrawing the AL. And the AP/AOL poll from 2005, which found that the fans broke this way:

Get rid of DH in AL: 40%
Keep it as it is: 30%
Add DH to NL: 29%
(no answer, 1%)

Adding the DH to the NL was the least-popular of the three options with the fans, and getting rid of the DH was solidly the #1 choice. You could cut the support for repealing the DH by one-quarter, and it would still outpoll the support for expanding it.

A separate poll in 2009 (the one Anyone was referring to upthread) by the Associate Press/Knowledge Networks focused on the question of using the DH in the World Series:

No DH: 38%
All DH: 34%
DH only in AL parks (current): 28%

Closer, but still no DH preference.

Most fans would rather see Ortiz bat than a guy who has as much chance of hitting the ball closing his eyes than leaving them open.

Your hyperbole aside (no pitchers are that poor at hitting), the poll disagrees with you:

"I'd just as soon not see it in either league," said Gary Hartwig, a Cubs fan who lives near Hudson, Iowa. "The manager has fewer decisions to make when there's no pitcher hitting. It makes the game more boring."

"Most fans" presumably watch athletic events to see athletes. Guys who don't actually compete, over-the-hill-fat-ass-fat-contract guys who hide in the dugout for virtually the entire game, are really not that popular and fans would prefer to see them go, already. Get out of here, Big Crappi! Take your needles and shove them, A-Roid! Fans of a particular team might still support their team's DH, but does anyone outside of Boston give a sh*t about Ortiz? Few, I'd wager. Mike Trout, OTOH…

The more strategy argument just does not hold the test of validity. In truth strategy is in many ways higher when you do not have an automatic out in the lineup.

Examples, please? I and others have given plenty of ours upthread. Logically, "strategy" involves coping with your weaknesses or exploiting those of others. A leveling mechanism, be it the DH or any other, reduces strategy, by definition.

Bottom line, the few remaining holdouts (NL) will adopt the DH within a short period of time.

Your "few remaining holdouts" comprise one-half of MLB's leagues and the majority of its teams, and the NL is the more-successful league, financially. (The second-biggest baseball-playing country, Japan, also has no DH in one of its two leagues, the Central. As in the US, the Central League is the more popular and more successful of the two.)

And people like you (perhaps including you) have been making predictions like this year after year after year. And they've been wrong… year after year after year. I guess I should commend your eternal, albeit completely unmerited, optimism…are you a Cubs fan, by any chance?

There are too many "discussion" taking place in MLB for this not to occur.

You're kidding, right? Somebody brings it up every year because it's an easy column, that's all. Nothing new under the sun.

Unfair advantages to the NL in interleague and world series games,

The AL has the interleague edge, 2375-2146. (.525 winning percentage.) The AL has had the better record in 14 of the 18 interleague seasons, including every season since 2004. I'd guess the "unfair advantage" is that in the AL parks, the AL gets to play a "professional hitter" who's used to taking his cuts everyday, and the NL has to try and match that with a scrub who might not have gotten a start that month.

As for the World Series, the record since 1976 (when the DH was introduced in the Series) is AL-20 wins, NL-18 wins. Again, no advantage, fair or otherwise, for the NL.

injury to pitchers who are vastly becoming an extremely protected commodity, etc.

Yeah, did you see how Mat Latos got hurt? A line drive hit him on the mound! That is SO unfair, pitchers are closer to the plate than anyone, they're practically defenseless out there! We've gotta do something about it! We need to put those pitcher-protecting cages from batting practice out there! What, you're going to protect some old guy tossing BP, but you're gonna let Latos and Jerry Blevins and so many others get hurt? That's crazy!

No, wait, why don't we just put two more players out there, kneeling on the grass on each side in front of the mound, and holding plexiglass shields they can use to protect both themselves and the pitchers? They don't have to bat or anything, it will help us keep Beloved Superstars like Chase Utley in the game even though they can't get around on the fastball any more. Why should a B.S. like Utley be forced to retire because he can't hit any more than B.S. David Ortiz should hang 'em up because he can't field? (Or run…) Let's face it, baseball needs all the B.S. it can get, right?

It's brilliant, the union will love it because more players get to start! I even have a name for them:

Designated Injury-Prevention Shield-Holding Infield Technicians! It's brilliant, I tell you! D.I.P.S.H.I.T.s now! We have to protect those poor, helpless, weak, brittle, tender, succulent, babies! I mean, pitchers! Save the pitchers!

Seriously, what are you…a traditionalist or something? Eww.

[Airdrop01]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

It's a little gauche to laugh at your own jokes, I'd think. And your posts contain a good dose of (unintentionally?) humorous falsehoods.

Not many have predicted this, so you're arguing a straw man. DH-dislikers feel it should be eliminated, but don't predict it will be. It's the DH advocates who run around declaring that they are the "cool kids" and everybody is going to jump on their hot new trend…despite the fact that the NL has not done this in 43 years of the DH, hasn't even held a vote on the issue since 35 years ago. The last time the NL even seriously considered the DH, Jimmy Carter was in the White House and Tim McCarver was still playing.

Except for the pesky fact about the NL consistently outdrawing the AL. And the AP/AOL poll from 2005, which found that the fans broke this way:

Get rid of DH in AL: 40%
Keep it as it is: 30%
Add DH to NL: 29%
(no answer, 1%)

Adding the DH to the NL was the least-popular of the three options with the fans, and getting rid of the DH was solidly the #1 choice. You could cut the support for repealing the DH by one-quarter, and it would still outpoll the support for expanding it.

A separate poll in 2009 (the one Anyone was referring to upthread) by the Associate Press/Knowledge Networks focused on the question of using the DH in the World Series:

No DH: 38%
All DH: 34%
DH only in AL parks (current): 28%

Closer, but still no DH preference.

Your hyperbole aside (no pitchers are that poor at hitting), the poll disagrees with you:

"I'd just as soon not see it in either league," said Gary Hartwig, a Cubs fan who lives near Hudson, Iowa. "The manager has fewer decisions to make when there's no pitcher hitting. It makes the game more boring."

"Most fans" presumably watch athletic events to see athletes. Guys who don't actually compete, over-the-hill-fat-ass-fat-contract guys who hide in the dugout for virtually the entire game, are really not that popular and fans would prefer to see them go, already. Get out of here, Big Crappi! Take your needles and shove them, A-Roid! Fans of a particular team might still support their team's DH, but does anyone outside of Boston give a sh*t about Ortiz? Few, I'd wager. Mike Trout, OTOH…

Examples, please? I and others have given plenty of ours upthread. Logically, "strategy" involves coping with your weaknesses or exploiting those of others. A leveling mechanism, be it the DH or any other, reduces strategy, by definition.

Your "few remaining holdouts" comprise one-half of MLB's leagues and the majority of its teams, and the NL is the more-successful league, financially. (The second-biggest baseball-playing country, Japan, also has no DH in one of its two leagues, the Central. As in the US, the Central League is the more popular and more successful of the two.)

And people like you (perhaps including you) have been making predictions like this year after year after year. And they've been wrong… year after year after year. I guess I should commend your eternal, albeit completely unmerited, optimism…are you a Cubs fan, by any chance?


You're kidding, right? Somebody brings it up every year because it's an easy column, that's all. Nothing new under the sun.

The AL has the interleague edge, 2375-2146. (.525 winning percentage.) The AL has had the better record in 14 of the 18 interleague seasons, including every season since 2004. I'd guess the "unfair advantage" is that in the AL parks, the AL gets to play a "professional hitter" who's used to taking his cuts everyday, and the NL has to try and match that with a scrub who might not have gotten a start that month.

As for the World Series, the record since 1976 (when the DH was introduced in the Series) is AL-20 wins, NL-18 wins. Again, no advantage, fair or otherwise, for the NL.

Yeah, did you see how Mat Latos got hurt? A line drive hit him on the mound! That is SO unfair, pitchers are closer to the plate than anyone, they're practically defenseless out there! We've gotta do something about it! We need to put those pitcher-protecting cages from batting practice out there! What, you're going to protect some old guy tossing BP, but you're gonna let Latos and Jerry Blevins and so many others get hurt? That's crazy!

No, wait, why don't we just put two more players out there, kneeling on the grass on each side in front of the mound, and holding plexiglass shields they can use to protect both themselves and the pitchers? They don't have to bat or anything, it will help us keep Beloved Superstars like Chase Utley in the game even though they can't get around on the fastball any more. Why should a B.S. like Utley be forced to retire because he can't hit any more than B.S. David Ortiz should hang 'em up because he can't field? (Or run…) Let's face it, baseball needs all the B.S. it can get, right?

It's brilliant, the union will love it because more players get to start! I even have a name for them:

Designated Injury-Prevention Shield-Holding Infield Technicians! It's brilliant, I tell you! D.I.P.S.H.I.T.s now! We have to protect those poor, helpless, weak, brittle, tender, succulent, babies! I mean, pitchers! Save the pitchers!

Seriously, what are you…a traditionalist or something? Eww.

r e l a x

Also, in an edit bound to send you into a crazed fit, your own post states that 59 of every 100 fans favor the DH in some form and the percentage of fans who do not want the DH at all are in what in pretty much any election would be a landslided minority.

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

r e l a x

Also, in an edit bound to send you into a crazed fit, your own post states that 59 of every 100 fans favor the DH in some form and the percentage of fans who do not want the DH at all are in what in pretty much any election would be a landslided minority.

But the vast majority do not want it in the NL. You can't count those who like the status quo as pro-DH, or we get to count them as anti-DH, which would make for a huge anti-DH landslide.

[Airdrop01]

Venn diagram.

And I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not even sure what the fight has to do with the post.

But it is entertaining I will say that.

[RandyMyers]

It is very typical when someone tries so hard to force their argument, even if it is without merit, that they eventually turn to insults.

My opinions come from following baseball for over 50 years. I have wrote graduate level papers on baseball strategy, computer software for statistics tracking, etc.

I don't consider myself an expert, but I also don't consider myself an idiot.

I was a pitcher through college level competition. I enjoy a good pitching dual, but I also want a fair competition. With a vast majority of pitchers throughout baseball history, this has not been fair. Yes there are exceptions; for every Catfish Hunter there are 100 who have no business standing at the plate against major league pitchers.

The DH has been used in most baseball leagues for over 40 years now and no matter how much some people stomp their feet and throw fits it is not going to change. Eventually all of baseball will use the DH as another important position, not some "over-the-hill-fat-ass-fat-contract guys who hide in the dugout for virtually the entire game, are really not that popular and fans would prefer to see them go". In actuality, professional DH players are very popular with their respective teams.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by RandyMyers

It is very typical when someone tries so hard to force their argument, even if it is without merit, that they eventually turn to insults.

Hey, you're the one who said the thread made you laugh. If you can't stand the gibes, stay out of the giggles, or some such.

My opinions come from following baseball for over 50 years.

And yet they're still just opinions. They're not supported by the facts, nor do they make your predictions of imminent DH-ing in the NL any more relevant. (Nor do they make your insistence that we all bow before your opinions and predictions any less offensive.)

(Facts you got wrong last time:

• Most fans don't support expanding the DH to the NL
• The non-DH league is not a "few remaining holdouts", but rather the majority of the clubs, and the more successful league.
•*The NL doesn't have an advantage in interleague play
• The NL doesn't have an advantage in World Series play)

I have wrote graduate level papers on baseball strategy, computer software for statistics tracking, etc.

Damn, I hope you used better English than "have wrote", or I'm worried for the future of academia. (Also "graduate-level" takes a hyphen, as noted here.)

I don't consider myself an expert, but I also don't consider myself an idiot.

Nobody called you an idiot. You were wrong on the facts, unsupported in your opinions, and persistent in predicting The Coming of the DH to the NL, Really Soon, This Time, We Swear, Get With the Program, You Jerks! without any regard to how people such as you have been wrong in their bullying ways for decades, but no one called you an idiot.

I was a pitcher through college level competition.

"Well, here's an interesting angle: who cares?"

I enjoy a good pitching dual, but I also want a fair competition. With a vast majority of pitchers throughout baseball history, this has not been fair.

It's fair by definition; both teams have to follow the same set of rules.

And it's fair that the pitcher has to make up for his inability at the plate by being more valuable through his pitching, just as Oritz should have to make up for his uselessness in the field by being valuable at the plate. (Did you catch Pedroia's comments in 2011 when the Sox were in Philadelphia and Francona tried putting Adrian Gonzalez in RF and Ortiz at 1B to get both those bats in the line-up? I think Dustin nearly walked back to Boston in disgust.) That's as fair as it gets.

Yes there are exceptions; for every Catfish Hunter there are 100 who have no business standing at the plate against major league pitchers.

The A's pitcher who hit the crap out of the ball in the 1973-1974 World Series was Ken Holtzman, not Catfish. Weren't you following the game back then? Maybe MLB just needs more Jewish pitchers.

(Sandy Koufax, 1955: 0-for-12, 12 Ks. So maybe not.)

The DH has been used in most baseball leagues for over 40 years now

And the NL is currently in its 140th DH-free season. History really isn't on your side here, trust me.

and no matter how much some people stomp their feet and throw fits it is not going to change.

Except that YOU are the one "stomp[ing] [your] feet" and "[throwing] fits" and demanding that everyone just accept the DH even though you and your fellow "it's inevitable!" screamers have been wrong on this before.

Every.Single.Frickin'.Time.

Koufax kept going to the plate when he was batting .000 because Walter Alston made him. What's your excuse?

Eventually all of baseball will use the DH as another important position, not some "over-the-hill-fat-ass-fat-contract guys who hide in the dugout for virtually the entire game, are really not that popular and fans would prefer to see them go".

Eventually, all of baseball will be played by androids manufactured on the planet Zorgon, playing in anti-gravity fields to allow for true four-dimensional strategy (gotta know when to use that time-travel to cut off rallies before they start!) and the androids will all be exactly identical, so it's impossible to tell who is playing any "position" at any time.

See, I can make up unjustified "predictions" just as easily as you. Aren't you proud of me?

In actuality, professional DH players are very popular with their respective teams.

In actuality, the only DH who sold any merchandise, even for fans of his own team, was Ortiz in 2014 because of his 2013 post-season, and even then he was barely ahead of Pedroia, as Sawx Nation split their merchandise "vote" pretty evenly. In 2013, Ortiz wasn't on the list of top-selling jerseys at all.

But Matt Harvey was in the Top 5. I guess Mets fans don't mind seeing Matt "embarrass" himself at the plate, after all.

ETA: I keep mentioning that Ortiz is a liability on the basepaths, so why aren't you campaigning for a Designated Runner to chug around so Papi doesn't have to? Bring back Herb Washington!

(Yes, Herb is currently 63 years old. I think he's still faster than Ortiz, though.)

[RandyMyers]

Another diatribe.... insulting grammar in a baseball forum, really, on and on doing nothing but insult after non-sense...

btw- yes Ken Holtzman had a good series... woot woot... Catfish was known for and year after year proved that he was a great hitter as pitchers go... .226 lifetime... Holtzman was .163, so actually better than many pitchers...

Anyway, I am done with this thread, you obviously see nothing better than throwing insults instead of good discussions...

[RchW]

Well at least people seem to have backed off on the AL HBP claim. Anyone care to man up and say they were wrong? Not holding my breath.

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

And it's fair that the pitcher has to make up for his inability at the plate by being more valuable through his pitching, just as Oritz should have to make up for his uselessness in the field by being valuable at the plate.

Outside of the fact that real baseball rather than DH-ball has added strategic tradeoffs (leave him in vs. pinch hit, when and with whom to double switch), this is my other major reason for being strongly anti-DH.

Want Ortiz' bat in the lineup? There should be no way to do that without putting up with his glove. That's another tradeoff (besides the "leave Clemens in or pinch hit" type mentioned well up-thread) the DH rule removes from the game.

On strategy, no one pro-DH ever has truly addressed the examples of cases where it made for strategic dilemmas for Davey Johnson and John McNamara in famous games, dilemmas that there is no one obvious way to handle.

In OOTP play when I manage a game, at least half the times that I have to stop and think for a bit over what I want to do would not make me stop to think if I used the DH. Strategic tradeoffs are interesting, and are a large part of what makes sports, including baseball, interesting.

The pro-DH crowd more or less tries to make its case based on inevitability, which is not a case for what should be done, even if it were true. Even if it were "inevitable" that the NL would eventually adopt the DH, I'd say (as Bill Maher said on an unrelated subject) "Then we need to find a way to make it 'evitable.'"

[RandyMyers]

I was wrong..... sowwie.....

Oh wait, I agreed with you on the AL HBP thingy... can I take my sorry back?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Anyone

The pro-DH crowd more or less tries to make its case based on inevitability, which is not a case for what should be done, even if it were true. Even if it were "inevitable" that the NL would eventually adopt the DH, I'd say (as Bill Maher said on an unrelated subject) "Then we need to find a way to make it 'evitable.'"

You're confused. No pro-DH case is being made or needs to be made. The DH is not going anywhere and no amount of sneering invective will change that fact. Most of this thread seems to revolve around comparing how much you guys hate the DH as a substitute for a pissing contest. It's funny and sad at the same time.

[aquapong]

NL = chess, AL = checkers.

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by RchW

You're confused. No pro-DH case is being made or needs to be made. The DH is not going anywhere and no amount of sneering invective will change that fact. Most of this thread seems to revolve around comparing how much you guys hate the DH as a substitute for a pissing contest. It's funny and sad at the same time.

So your "case" is, "I don't care if it's an awful rule, but hahahahaha it's not going anywhere!"

That's no argument for it. And obviously, if it had 0% support among fans (to be clear, I'm not claiming anything like that as the actual level) it would be gone next season.

Arguments over sports rules are arguments over what should happen. Anything else is pointless. If you have to resort to "Well, it's not going away!" then that seems to show you can't justify it as something others should want, just as something they can't get rid of, and just sort of mocking those like me who'd love to get rid of it with "Hahahaha, but you won't!" Then the pro-DHers throw in the inevitability rhetorical technique about "drop your opposition to expanding it to the NL, because that's inevitable, too." And that part is BS. The DH would even be gone from the AL already if the MLBPA had been willing to allow it.

I don't see any realistic chance to be gone from the AL in the foreseeable future because the MLBPA would require much more in return than the owners would offer. But again, that's no reason to say its existence is good.

Analogy: I don't want to age. Most people don't. None of us can stop it. I don't think many would try to argue that aging is good on the basis we can't stop it, though. Some might argue it as good in terms of clearing room for new generations, or something, but even when you take something truly 100% unavoidable, unavoidability is no argument.

[chucksabr]

The "inevitability rhetorical technique" is a valid response for when an anti-DHer lays out a plan, usually half-baked, as to how the American League, all the minor leagues, the NCAA, et al., can comfortably drop the DH, the conceit of which is that all those leagues, all the colleges, all the international organizations, and everybody else on the planet—except for fifteen lumbering American League batters and the MLBPA—wants to make that happen.

There's really only one response rooted in reality there can be to that: dream on, because that's never going to happen. Because not only is there no movement afoot to remove the DH from the American League or any other league that utilizes it, but in fact all the serious discussion within the game today is about whether, when and how to install the DH in the National League.

It's not simply rhetorical. It is truly inevitable.

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

The "inevitability rhetorical technique" is a valid response for when an anti-DHer lays out a plan, usually half-baked, as to how the American League, all the minor leagues, the NCAA, et al., can comfortably drop the DH, the conceit of which is that all those leagues, all the colleges, all the international organizations, and everybody else on the planet—except for fifteen lumbering American League batters and the MLBPA—wants to make that happen.

Did I claim that? Nope.

I will cite the above polls as proof that (a) more fans would rather see the DH eliminated in the AL than added to the NL, and (b) the vast majority of fans do not want to see it added to the NL.

I'll cite my own link that, at least as of 2009, the MLB owners wanted to eliminate the DH from the AL, and it would have been eliminated, except that the MLBPA blocked it, a move that I conceded was probably in the best interest of their members because they were not offered enough to make it in the players' financial interests.

I also offered a plan that I never claimed would be adopted, that was an emotional response to the inevitability argument, because if something horrible (by the standards of sports; nothing can happen in sports that's as horrible-- or as good-- as things that can happen in real life, but the forcing of the DH into the NL would be one of the worst things that has ever happened in sports that lacked outside-of-sports implications) were inevitable, you have to "make it evitable."

But rather than argue the merits, because for pro-DHers that is unwinnable, you perpetuate the myth that it's inevitable that the DH will be universal, which has a bandwagon effect if people believe it, because some people are shallow enough not to evaluate the merits but rather will join any side they feel certain will win.

The owners do not want to add the DH rule to the NL, and in fact probably, as in 2009, would strip it from the AL if they could. The fans don't want the DH in the NL also. The MLBPA wants to force it in-- in this case, not rationally evaluating its members interest (the responding dip in baseball revenues, even though I admit it would probably almost all be a temporary dip, would mean owners would spend less money on player contracts due to lesser revenue until revenue rebounded).

The MLBPA has outmaneuvered the owners before, which I usually have applauded. I particularly don't like the salary cap owners would also like, because I think it should be possible to keep a great team together. Is it possible the MLBPA will outmanuever the owners and get it in? It's possible. It's more likely the MLBPA will extract other concessions (ones I might well like) instead. It's far from inevitable.

And if you're for the DH, you should be able to argue why less strategy and more one-dimensional beer leaguers make for a better game.

Edited to add: Yes, I realize Chuck and others on this topic are largely trolling at this point just to get people who prefer real baseball to DH-ball riled up, but I guess I lack the self-control not to respond despite that.