Curious about lefties and defensive positions

[Lou Gehrig]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Maybe I'm mistaken but I don't think the "handedness" of the fielder determines where the catcher throws the ball to try and throw out a runner at a base. A right handed third baseman would have had the same difficulty if he caught the ball where it was thrown.

I think what Andy is alluding to is a right-handed 3rd baseman can lay down a tag in a sweeping motion a lot easier than a left-hander at that position which I agree. It's applying the tag that is the issue and not the location of the throw if I understand him correctly.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Lou Gehrig

I think what Andy is alluding to is a right-handed 3rd baseman can lay down a tag in a sweeping motion a lot easier than a left-hander at that position which I agree. It's applying the tag that is the issue and not the location of the throw if I understand him correctly.

Consider a straight steal of 3B

A RH 3B can run past the bag (or straddle it if time permits) to protect himself while extending his left hand glove to take the throw in front of the bag and do this with some fluidity. A LH 3B running past the bag must reach back across his body which is more difficult to do and may be slower.To straddle the bag a LH 3B has to make a big turn which would be even slower. Alternatives are worse. The LH 3B could head directly to the bag while extending his right hand glove in a mirror image of the RH 3B. That would risk a collision with the runner and perhaps an interference call should his body or legs block the runner before the ball arrives.

Even an exceptional LH athlete would be at a competitive disadvantage in high level baseball.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by RchW

Consider a straight steal of 3B

A RH 3B can run past the bag (or straddle it if time permits) to protect himself while extending his left hand glove to take the throw in front of the bag and do this with some fluidity. A LH 3B running past the bag must reach back across his body which is more difficult to do and may be slower.To straddle the bag a LH 3B has to make a big turn which would be even slower. Alternatives are worse. The LH 3B could head directly to the bag while extending his right hand glove in a mirror image of the RH 3B. That would risk a collision with the runner and perhaps an interference call should his body or legs block the runner before the ball arrives.

Even an exceptional LH athlete would be at a competitive disadvantage in high level baseball.

A left handed third baseman would straddle third with his right shoulder facing home plate in much the same way a middle infielder might straddle second to take a throw from the catcher. I agree with you on the throwing stuff but don't see it in terms of applying tags.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

A left handed third baseman would straddle third with his right shoulder facing home plate in much the same way a middle infielder might straddle second to take a throw from the catcher. I agree with you on the throwing stuff but don't see it in terms of applying tags.

How does he get to that position without being late for the throw? It's the mechanics of getting into position that play badly.

It continues to be a nonsensical argument.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by RchW

How does he get to that position without being late for the throw? It's the mechanics of getting into position that play badly.

It continues to be a nonsensical argument.

That question makes no sense. That's like asking how a 2nd baseman or shortstop gets into a similar position at second base without being late for the throw.

[Lou Gehrig]

Originally Posted by RchW

Consider a straight steal of 3B

A RH 3B can run past the bag (or straddle it if time permits) to protect himself while extending his left hand glove to take the throw in front of the bag and do this with some fluidity. A LH 3B running past the bag must reach back across his body which is more difficult to do and may be slower.To straddle the bag a LH 3B has to make a big turn which would be even slower. Alternatives are worse. The LH 3B could head directly to the bag while extending his right hand glove in a mirror image of the RH 3B. That would risk a collision with the runner and perhaps an interference call should his body or legs block the runner before the ball arrives.

Even an exceptional LH athlete would be at a competitive disadvantage in high level baseball.

Sounds like you agree with Andy and me.

[joefromchicago]

It might be instructive to imagine what would have happened if Abner Doubleday, as he was inventing baseball in that Cooperstown cow pasture in 1839, decided that runners would go clockwise around the bases instead of counter-clockwise. 176 years later, I wonder if we'd be saying that right-handers can't play 2B, 3B, or shortstop. Given the relative paucity of left-handed throwers, it would be highly unlikely that no team would have a right-hander at one or more of those positions. My guess is that the traditional wisdom would soon hold that right-handers have an advantage over left-handers at those infield positions.

[Lou Gehrig]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

It might be instructive to imagine what would have happened if Abner Doubleday, as he was inventing baseball in that Cooperstown cow pasture in 1839, decided that runners would go clockwise around the bases instead of counter-clockwise. 176 years later, I wonder if we'd be saying that right-handers can't play 2B, 3B, or shortstop. Given the relative paucity of left-handed throwers, it would be highly unlikely that no team would have a right-hander at one or more of those positions. My guess is that the traditional wisdom would soon hold that right-handers have an advantage over left-handers at those infield positions.

Of course there would be right-handed infielders in "clockwise baseball" based on the numbers game. I believe the leftys would be the premium fielders if that were the case.

But there's a reason that the best minds in baseball for over a century play right-handers in the infield (exception 1B) and it's not based on perception.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Lou Gehrig

Of course there would be right-handed infielders in "clockwise baseball" based on the numbers game. I believe the leftys would be the premium fielders if that were the case.

But there's a reason that the best minds in baseball for over a century play right handers in the infield (exception 1B) and it's not based on perception.

Is catcher just based upon perception? I mean it is the same "best minds in baseball".

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Lou Gehrig

I think what Andy is alluding to is a right-handed 3rd baseman can lay down a tag in a sweeping motion a lot easier than a left-hander at that position which I agree. It's applying the tag that is the issue and not the location of the throw if I understand him correctly.

Exactly. You just worded it better than I did.

[Lou Gehrig]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Is catcher just based upon perception? I mean it is the same "best minds in baseball".

C'mon Dyz, you know we're not talking about the battery here.

[majesty95]

Originally Posted by RchW

Nah it would be easy. LH playing 2B, SS 3B and C should not not develop experience. Realistic in that no RL team would allow a LH to play enough to get experience because they would be so bad.

Experience drives position ratings in conjunction with skills. That way they should never achieve a position rating. The only downside is that there may not be sufficient penalties for playing with no position rating.

I don't think C is near as important as 2B, SS and 3B. RH catchers still have to deal with LH batters 1/3 of the time.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Lou Gehrig

C'mon Dyz, you know we're not talking about the battery here.

I'm just applying the same logic. You can't make an argument that left handed infielders don't work and the evidence is that "the best minds in baseball" have never tried it but then dismiss that same logic when applied to catchers.

[majesty95]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I'm just applying the same logic. You can't make an argument that left handed infielders don't work and the evidence is that "the best minds in baseball" have never tried it but then dismiss that same logic when applied to catchers.

How do you know they haven't tried it? Are you telling me that in 144 years of MLB that no manager has ever thought to try a lefty at any of those positions? Or, could they maybe have tried in practice and realized how ridiculous it was?

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by majesty95

How do you know they haven't tried it? Are you telling me that in 144 years of MLB that no manager has ever thought to try a lefty at any of those positions? Or, could they maybe have tried in practice and realized how ridiculous it was?

You are arguing with the wrong person. I never made such statements. I simply accepted the premise of a poster for the sake of argument and applied the logic of that premise to another position. If you disagree with the original premise then argue with the guy that stated it.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

That question makes no sense. That's like asking how a 2nd baseman or shortstop gets into a similar position at second base without being late for the throw.

No you are wrong. The positions needed for LH throwers require contortions unlike what is required for RH throwers. The move for a RH 2B requires a steeper angle of approach than that of a RH 3B. That is nothing compared to what a LH 2B would have to do. The path for a RH SS going to his left is very easy. It would be somewhat easier for a LH SS but that is immaterial as a LH SS could not compete on balls hit to his right.

This entire argument is nonsense and I should probably stop feeding the troll posts. I just can't stop myself.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by RchW

No you are wrong. The positions needed for LH throwers require contortions unlike what is required for RH throwers. The move for a RH 2B requires a steeper angle of approach than that of a RH 3B. That is nothing compared to what a LH 2B would have to do. The path for a RH SS going to his left is very easy. It would be somewhat easier for a LH SS but that is immaterial as a LH SS could not compete on balls hit to his right.

This entire argument is nonsense and I should probably stop feeding the troll posts. I just can't stop myself.

I have no idea what you are arguing now. I thought we were talking about a third baseman taking a throw at third from the catcher. The act of him straddling third to take the throw is no more difficult then the similar act of a middle infielder straddling second to take a throw from the catcher.

[Lou Gehrig]

Originally Posted by Lou Gehrig

But there's a reason that the best minds in baseball for over a century play right-handers in the infield (exception 1B) and it's not based on perception.

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I'm just applying the same logic. You can't make an argument that left handed infielders don't work and the evidence is that "the best minds in baseball" have never tried it but then dismiss that same logic when applied to catchers.

Originally Posted by majesty95

How do you know they haven't tried it? Are you telling me that in 144 years of MLB that no manager has ever thought to try a lefty at any of those positions? Or, could they maybe have tried in practice and realized how ridiculous it was?

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

You are arguing with the wrong person. I never made such statements. I simply accepted the premise of a poster for the sake of argument and applied the logic of that premise to another position. If you disagree with the original premise then argue with the guy that stated it.

Dyz, you have put words in my mouth. Please read again what I said and admit I never said they haven't tried it. Those were your words not mine.

Once again I think you are just looking for an argument.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I have no idea what you are arguing now. I thought we were talking about a third baseman taking a throw at third from the catcher. The act of him straddling third to take the throw is no more difficult then the similar act of a middle infielder straddling second to take a throw from the catcher.

Now I know you are trolling. You brought it up. See below and also see Lou Gehrig's post.

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

That question makes no sense. That's like asking how a 2nd baseman or shortstop gets into a similar position at second base without being late for the throw.

You brought 2B into the discussion.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Lou Gehrig

Dyz, you have put words in my mouth. Please read again what I said and admit I never said they haven't tried it. Those were your words not mine.

Once again I think you are just looking for an argument.

Remove the "have never tried" it from my post and the logic of the argument is still valid. I made a poor assumption of what you meant but it doesn't change the fact that applying your logic to the case of the catcher seems to throw a wrinkle into the soundness of that logic.