trading difficulty

[Hoiles]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

No offense, and maybe I am cranky today (well, no doubt about it, really), but I wonder whether folks who are playing on Very Hard are really trying to trade very hard. Or whether they care about realistic gameplay, which this setting is not. Or whether they are masochists. Or whether they just say they are using the Very Hard setting.

I play GM only mode and trading is pretty much the biggest part of that mode so I figure I make it as hard as possible. As I don't spend any time on lineups, most of the time is scouring for players that are available, and for whatever reason (maybe an AI loophole?) you can make a one-sided trade in your favour when you need to if you search around. You just need to be very careful handing out long-term expensive contracts (even to legit stars) as you know they'll be impossible to dump. Also, it's still pretty easy to get free agents as long as they're within your budget. That said, I've only made it to the playoffs 1 time out of 5 with a IRL playoff contender so maybe I'm more of a masochist than I thought.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

No offense, and maybe I am cranky today (well, no doubt about it, really), but I wonder whether folks who are playing on Very Hard are really trying to trade very hard. Or whether they care about realistic gameplay, which this setting is not. Or whether they are masochists. Or whether they just say they are using the Very Hard setting.

I have done a lot of experimenting with these settings.

Very Hard is really hard. It serves to limit your trades while allowing the AI to trade freely (especially if you set AI trading frequency to normal or higher). I agree with you that it is not realistic. It is more like a handicap.

Hard is pretty fair in my opinion. I still think it is slightly unrealistic because it is difficult to make trades that look fair for both teams unless you hit the AI at its preferred time (which varies according to its circumstances but winter meetings and trade deadline are best).

Average is realistic but somewhat easy at times. I think it makes the best overall setting if you are willing to restrain yourself from the "dead veteran plus 3 mediocre prospects for Hall of Famer" trades that can be done on this setting. There is also more freedom to dictate the timing of your trade on this setting.

I prefer Neutral over Favor Prospects for normal play but I would switch to Favor Prospects if I wanted to increase the difficulty in a rebuilding scenario.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I have done a lot of experimenting with these settings.

Very Hard is really hard. It serves to limit your trades while allowing the AI to trade freely (especially if you set AI trading frequency to normal or higher). I agree with you that it is not realistic. It is more like a handicap.

Hard is pretty fair in my opinion. I still think it is slightly unrealistic because it is difficult to make trades that look fair for both teams unless you hit the AI at its preferred time (which varies according to its circumstances but winter meetings and trade deadline are best).

Average is realistic but somewhat easy at times. I think it makes the best overall setting if you are willing to restrain yourself from the "dead veteran plus 3 mediocre prospects for Hall of Famer" trades that can be done on this setting. There is also more freedom to dictate the timing of your trade on this setting.

I prefer Neutral over Favor Prospects for normal play but I would switch to Favor Prospects if I wanted to increase the difficulty in a rebuilding scenario.

I agree with this and use hard/neutral and while I still feel like I get a steal every now and then (which is good, just ask us Cardinals fans) it's not near how easy it is to ripoff the computer on average. Trust me, I've also been on the end of WTF did I just do?

And very hard.. too difficult unless I want to survey each team in the league.

[Westheim]

I will repeat that the trade AI in 16 is completely broken and even neutral/neutral makes it impossible to rebuild a crashed franchise. The AI won't trade with you - ever.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Hoiles

Is that even possible on very hard? I'm on very hard/neutral and it seems impossible to trade for any prospects at all. The computer even refuses trades of their random1 star prospects for my 5 star prospects.

Its possible. I also think higher trade difficulty is idiot proof so the AI probably blocked such a trade not to mention the AI may see the players differently then you if scouting is on.



If people are able to make trades on very hard then trading is not broken. Its ok to lower the difficulty...

I agree that the hardest setting is limiting the human to few trades (AI is more willing to trade during the offseason and near the deadline, impossible to take young players away from rebuilding teams, etc) which doesn't make it unrealistic as a human will likely attempt to trade more frequently than the AI and with a setting like average you are able to trade free will ripping off the AI. A common strategy I see on forums and youtube using default settings is buy low sell high, take the other team's prospects and flip them for players who can perform now while making the playoffs 90% of the time. Its too easy to have a competing team while building a top farm system on any trade difficulty other than hard.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I agree that the hardest setting is limiting the human to few trades (AI is more willing to trade during the offseason and near the deadline, impossible to take young players away from rebuilding teams, etc) which doesn't make it unrealistic as a human will likely attempt to trade more frequently than the AI and with a setting like average you are able to trade free will ripping off the AI. A common strategy I see on forums and youtube using default settings is buy low sell high, take the other team's prospects and flip them for players who can perform now while making the playoffs 90% of the time. Its too easy to have a competing team while building a top farm system on any trade difficulty other than hard.

Good points.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Good points.

If anything, I think the trading mechanics and options make a setting like very hard seem impossible.

You can make trades but you'll most likely have to manually survey every team for a possible trade on a weekly basis (depending how bad you need a move) which make things time consuming. Trade block consist of only aging vets with high contracts who are useless unless you lowered the aging settings.

Shop around if used as a sole source of trading rather than a tool will frustrate you.

Some features like having a rumor mill to see what players may be up for grabs could really help. The option to easily negotiate trades with teams. The option to offer up a player to teams and see what will come back or in other words a reworked shop a player feature that doesn't only bring back 1 for 1 deals. AI using features that are available to the user like untouchable and interested tags could really make trading less frustrating and more immersive.

[Hoiles]

While I use "shop around" on very hard there are some definite caveats; if you shop a player multiple times they will get angry at you. Not sure of the effect of this but don't want to push things.

A way to get around this is to pick on a backup or (better yet) AAA player, whose performance isn't that vital to your team, and shop him around constantly to see which teams have players available for a feasible trade. Then, you might make a realistic, even one-sided, package for a good player. I find that on the default quickstart, players from Washington, St Louis and the Yankees are easier to pry for whatever reason.

I think it's a way to get more out of GM-only mode but I wouldn't do it if I were playing out the games.

[smiller]

Sir Michael, Your suggestions are exactly what I've been wanting to see, especially being able to get multiple players as a reply when you shop one of your own. Right now negotiation is a one-way street with the AI never making an attempt to bargain with you to work something out.

[CBL-Commish]

I have my universe set on Average and Favor Prospects and it's essentially impossible to trade relievers. I have a team pretty well stocked in the bullpen, to the point where I have more out-of-options relievers than I have roster spots. So I'm trying to trade some fairly highly-rated, minimal-salaried relievers and getting no love at all.

Like a 24-year-old pitcher with 70/50/50 (on 80 scale) ratings, at league minimum salary, and essentially finding no takers. Shop him around and I get a list of 27-year-old utility players with 30 ratings across the board. Add in money to cover his salary, and I can't get other teams to part with 25-year-olds in A ball.

I don't want to game the system by lowering the difficulty, but I'm trying to trade legitimately good prospects for someone of lesser value with options and that seems totally impossible.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

I don't want to game the system by lowering the difficulty, but I'm trying to trade legitimately good prospects for someone of lesser value with options and that seems totally impossible.

... hence my use of the term "broken" to describe the system in short. "Neutral" *by definition* means that a trade with players of equal value for either team MUST be possible. And it is not. It is so badly not.

[darkcloud4579]

AI doesn't use the trade block, at all. That doesn't help, but I suppose that feature is really only for online leagues?!

Also, I alternate depending on what I'm doing re: difficulty between hard/average but one of the tricks i just read here the other day that I liked is turning off the potential ratings and playing stats only on prospects. It's nice to have that complete blindness to what they could become, except the AI evaluation and having to go on stats and decide whether to trade a kid or not.

All of the years of playing OOTP and that's the closest I've come to feeling like playing that way making dealing prospects feel way more real.

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

AI doesn't use the trade block, at all. That doesn't help, but I suppose that feature is really only for online leagues?!

Also, I alternate depending on what I'm doing re: difficulty between hard/average but one of the tricks i just read here the other day that I liked is turning off the potential ratings and playing stats only on prospects. It's nice to have that complete blindness to what they could become, except the AI evaluation and having to go on stats and decide whether to trade a kid or not.

All of the years of playing OOTP and that's the closest I've come to feeling like playing that way making dealing prospects feel way more real.

That's fine, but I still have a 2-star seemingly MLB-ready prospect that the AI laughs when I try to trade him straight up for a 26-year-old non-prospect stuck in A ball.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

That's fine, but I still have a 2-star seemingly MLB-ready prospect that the AI laughs when I try to trade him straight up for a 26-year-old non-prospect stuck in A ball.

Any room on their 40 man roster? (if using one)

RP are not a hot commodity in the game. and especially not a 2 star rated one. Does he at least have SP potential?

[mking55]

Here's my problem. My trading is set to very hard and I have no problem with that. Anything else is too easy.

The problem (and I have no idea how to fix it or how to fix it) is free agency. I have free agency always on and if I have the cash, I get the players I want. If I have a good team, I will go for the best and lose my upcoming picks because having the 16th pick is no great thrill.

So, it's not trading that lets me win, but free agency. I started my current league in 1903 (with free agency on) and have finished 29 seasons. I've made the playoffs 21 times and won it all 16 times.

I have my owner set to cheap and meddling and yet my payroll is more than 2 times higher than anyone else's. All teams are in the black (or green in the game), so why aren't other teams fighting me for the free agents?

I don't use house rules because I buy the game to play the game. I have no idea how to get around this conundrum. If I turn free agency off and I start off with a crappy team, I'm going nowhere. I think the teams with money need to be competitve in free agency.

So I guess I answered my own question. The AI teams need to be more aggressive in free agency if they have the money.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally Posted by Westheim

... hence my use of the term "broken" to describe the system in short. "Neutral" *by definition* means that a trade with players of equal value for either team MUST be possible. And it is not. It is so badly not.

Quibble: there is no "neutral" trading difficulty setting. There is "average." There is a "neutral" setting for AI preference of prospects vs. veterans.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

Quibble: there is no "neutral" trading difficulty setting. There is "average." There is a "neutral" setting for AI preference of prospects vs. veterans.

Further more the neutral setting for prospects vs Vets does not have anything to do with the AI accepting "even" trades or not.

[Westheim]

You may have your quibble, but on average/neutral I still can not get a single fair deal done. It is close to impossible to deal any major leaguer for a half-decent prospect, and all trade offers the AI gives you are utter garbage, and they won't move from that offer a single blip.

Very average.