More DH Discussion

jpeters1734 · 09-02-2015, 11:24 AM

An At-the-Plate Anomaly: Madison Bumgarner and the Rapid Decline of the Hitting Pitcher «

Interesting article about the DH. Neal Huntington says it best,

“At my core, I am opposed to the DH,” Huntington says. “However, given the increase in the overall number of injuries in the game — I like the ability to distribute DH at-bats among all of a club’s regulars to help keep guys sharp and fresh — and the risk that we expose most professional pitchers to by asking them to do something that they are not equipped to do because they lack the experience and/or skill development, I have begun to see the benefits of the DH in both leagues.”

I am very opposed to the DH, but with the NL being one of a handful of leagues around the world that doesn't use the DH, fewer pitchers can hit. I sure do like watching Mad Bum and Grienke go to bat. It's cool to think that even I could probably bat .100 in the bigs if given the chance.

kq76 · 09-02-2015, 05:00 PM

SP-only DH, please MLB!

Every time I watch an AL game I'm frustrated that something more interesting doesn't happen in the late innings. Commentators constantly point that all that really matters for a manager now is managing the bullpen. Well, it wouldn't be that way with the SP-only DH or no DH at all. Sure, it's usually not rocket science, but it's something, just like managing a bullpen is something.

MorseMoose · 09-02-2015, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

SP-only DH, please MLB!

Every time I watch an AL game I'm frustrated that something more interesting doesn't happen in the late innings. Commentators constantly point that all that really matters for a manager now is managing the bullpen. Well, it wouldn't be that way with the SP-only DH or no DH at all. Sure, it's usually not rocket science, but it's something, just like managing a bullpen is something.

Interesting, but I'm not sure I like it. For starters, the home team is at a disadvantage with this rule.

kq76 · 09-02-2015, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

Interesting, but I'm not sure I like it. For starters, the home team is at a disadvantage with this rule.

?

MorseMoose · 09-02-2015, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

?

I assume you're asking why the home team is at a disadvantage? Here's a couple reasons:

Away team comes up in the first inning, they bat around knocking the starting pitcher out of the game in the first inning. The DH on the away team got up once or maybe even twice. The home team, with the starting pitcher out, now must take their starting DH out of the game without that DH even batting.

Another reason I don't think I like it (and where the home-team is at a disadvantage), the starting pitcher gets hurt in the first inning. Boom, the starting DH is gone without an at bat.

Questdog · 09-02-2015, 06:29 PM

No DH....just no DH.

It is artificial and contrived. If you are hell-bent on not having pitchers hit (dunno why), just skipping their spot in the order would be more natural. And if the AL had never adopted the DH, none of the other leagues in the world would have. So, killing it there may kill it everywhere eventually.

MorseMoose · 09-02-2015, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

No DH....just no DH.

It is artificial and contrived. If you are hell-bent on not having pitchers hit (dunno why), just skipping their spot in the order would be more natural. And if the AL had never adopted the DH, none of the other leagues in the world would have. So, killing it there may kill it everywhere eventually.

All rules are artificial and contrived.

I love the designated hitter rule. I'd much rather see David Ortiz hit than Henry Owens.

Questdog · 09-02-2015, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

All rules are artificial and contrived.

I love the designated hitter rule. I'd much rather see David Ortiz hit than Henry Owens.

That statement is wrong.

And variety is the spice of life. If every woman was drop-dead gorgeous, they'd all be mediocre looking......

By your logic, we would be better off not having a lineup at all and just designate the best hitter on the team to do all the batting..........

Jason Moyer · 09-02-2015, 08:21 PM

The NL-purist in me hates the DH, but if I have to accept interleague play (which pretty much ruined the all-star game and world series) I'll be ok with having the DH in both leagues. On the plus side, as has been mentioned before, it adds more strategy to the game.

RchW · 09-02-2015, 08:21 PM

The tuck rule.

Courtesy runners.

Courtesy Runners

Questdog · 09-02-2015, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

The NL-purist in me hates the DH, but if I have to accept interleague play (which pretty much ruined the all-star game and world series) I'll be ok with having the DH in both leagues. On the plus side, as has been mentioned before, it adds more strategy to the game.

Well, that Purist fella in you must be a little bitty bugger......

When the NL adopts the DH, I will quit paying attention.

RchW · 09-02-2015, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

The NL-purist in me hates the DH, but if I have to accept interleague play (which pretty much ruined the all-star game and world series) I'll be ok with having the DH in both leagues. On the plus side, as has been mentioned before, it adds more strategy to the game.

Interestingly I hate inter-league play way more than the DH. For the next version I expect to expand my fictional leagues to 16 by 16 and 4X4 divisions with no WC teams.

Edit:

We can all be upset about something.

Jason Moyer · 09-02-2015, 08:35 PM

I always run 1980's league structure/rules, but whenever I finally get v16 I plan on doing an MLB league and quickly realigning it/adding the DH to the NL/getting rid of interleague & WC (assuming that's possible with the licensed starter league).

I think interleague play is the worst thing that baseball has ever done, as it completely destroyed interest in the all-star game. I used to watch the all-star game and the world series every year regardless of the teams because I liked the novelty of seeing AL players. Now they might as well just realign as 4 conferences because the entire concept of a "league" is meaningless.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 09-02-2015, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

No DH....just no DH.

It is artificial and contrived. If you are hell-bent on not having pitchers hit (dunno why), just skipping their spot in the order would be more natural. And if the AL had never adopted the DH, none of the other leagues in the world would have. So, killing it there may kill it everywhere eventually.

I tend to think that the DH was inevitable. Pitchers in baseball have, in general, been the weakest hitter on the team since the early 20th century. Since then pitchers only became more and more specialized. After all, it's not like Charlie Finley came up with the idea by himself. Nor was the '69-'73 period the first time it was proposed.

kq76 · 09-02-2015, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorseMoose

I assume you're asking why the home team is at a disadvantage? Here's a couple reasons:

Away team comes up in the first inning, they bat around knocking the starting pitcher out of the game in the first inning. The DH on the away team got up once or maybe even twice. The home team, with the starting pitcher out, now must take their starting DH out of the game without that DH even batting.

Another reason I don't think I like it (and where the home-team is at a disadvantage), the starting pitcher gets hurt in the first inning. Boom, the starting DH is gone without an at bat.

How often does the SP for the home team, or either team for that matter, get knocked out in the first inning? Once or twice a year? Besides, what happens when that happens in the NL? You lose your batter there too. Finally, I think you missed the part where the DH can be subbed into the field if you want to keep him. I could go with or without that last rule, but I imagine most would want it.

Really, the only advantage goes to the team with the better SP and I have zero problem with that because, in addition to seeing more of the bench players getting into the game, I want to see the extra incentive of keeping your SPs in the game. As it is now, in the NL there's actually a disincentive to keeping your SP in the game, which is terribly unfortunate, and in the AL there's no incentive or disincentive, but the AL is still reliever crazy.

The biggest drawback to it, and I think it's a minor one, is probably that with the DH you're using an extra roster spot, which already happens in the AL, but with late inning NL rules it could become problematic with so few bench players. I'm convinced, however, that sooner or later MLB is going to up the roster size to 26 or 27 (there's just too many teams insisting on such a large bullpen to the detriment of their bench). And to balance that they could go to a scratch system like in hockey where you scratch a few players from being eligible to play in that game. In baseball you could easily have a 27 man roster, but scratch yesterday and tomorrow's starting pitchers and still really only have 25 eligible players for the game. That would have to be bargained of course, but I think they could justify it based on being good for the game. I miss the pinch hitter and stolen base specialists of yesteryear and this would help bring them back.

Jason Moyer · 09-03-2015, 12:57 AM

I don't see why the DH would require additional roster spots. If anything, it should add roster flexibility since it removes the automatic substitutions from the NL game.

swoboda · 09-14-2015, 12:19 PM

No DH.
Baseball = 9 guys in the lineup not 10

Questdog · 09-14-2015, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

I tend to think that the DH was inevitable. Pitchers in baseball have, in general, been the weakest hitter on the team since the early 20th century. Since then pitchers only became more and more specialized. After all, it's not like Charlie Finley came up with the idea by himself. Nor was the '69-'73 period the first time it was proposed.

Death is inevitable too, but that does not mean I have to embrace it......

stl jason · 09-14-2015, 12:58 PM

heck if we want to specialize everything, might as well have 'designated fielders' so the defensive people who can hit worth a damn get to play, and 'designated batters' to fill their spots when it comes time to hit.

Questdog · 09-14-2015, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stl jason

heck if we want to specialize everything, might as well have 'designated fielders' so the defensive people who can hit worth a damn get to play, and 'designated batters' to fill their spots when it comes time to hit.

Do not forget the 'designated base runners'.....and someone to stand out in left field next to Lonnie Smith to make his throws for him......

09-02-2015, 11:24 AM	#1
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 6,216	More DH Discussion An At-the-Plate Anomaly: Madison Bumgarner and the Rapid Decline of the Hitting Pitcher « Interesting article about the DH. Neal Huntington says it best, “At my core, I am opposed to the DH,” Huntington says. “However, given the increase in the overall number of injuries in the game — I like the ability to distribute DH at-bats among all of a club’s regulars to help keep guys sharp and fresh — and the risk that we expose most professional pitchers to by asking them to do something that they are not equipped to do because they lack the experience and/or skill development, I have begun to see the benefits of the DH in both leagues.” I am very opposed to the DH, but with the NL being one of a handful of leagues around the world that doesn't use the DH, fewer pitchers can hit. I sure do like watching Mad Bum and Grienke go to bat. It's cool to think that even I could probably bat .100 in the bigs if given the chance. __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

09-02-2015, 05:00 PM	#2
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,755	SP-only DH, please MLB! Every time I watch an AL game I'm frustrated that something more interesting doesn't happen in the late innings. Commentators constantly point that all that really matters for a manager now is managing the bullpen. Well, it wouldn't be that way with the SP-only DH or no DH at all. Sure, it's usually not rocket science, but it's something, just like managing a bullpen is something. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

09-02-2015, 08:21 PM	#9
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,074	The NL-purist in me hates the DH, but if I have to accept interleague play (which pretty much ruined the all-star game and world series) I'll be ok with having the DH in both leagues. On the plus side, as has been mentioned before, it adds more strategy to the game. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

09-02-2015, 08:21 PM	#10
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	The tuck rule. Courtesy runners. Courtesy Runners __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

09-02-2015, 08:35 PM	#13
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,074	I always run 1980's league structure/rules, but whenever I finally get v16 I plan on doing an MLB league and quickly realigning it/adding the DH to the NL/getting rid of interleague & WC (assuming that's possible with the licensed starter league). I think interleague play is the worst thing that baseball has ever done, as it completely destroyed interest in the all-star game. I used to watch the all-star game and the world series every year regardless of the teams because I liked the novelty of seeing AL players. Now they might as well just realign as 4 conferences because the entire concept of a "league" is meaningless. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech Last edited by Jason Moyer; 09-02-2015 at 08:37 PM.

09-02-2015, 06:29 PM	#6
Questdog Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases...... Posts: 16,142	No DH....just no DH. It is artificial and contrived. If you are hell-bent on not having pitchers hit (dunno why), just skipping their spot in the order would be more natural. And if the AL had never adopted the DH, none of the other leagues in the world would have. So, killing it there may kill it everywhere eventually.

09-03-2015, 12:57 AM	#16
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 5,074	I don't see why the DH would require additional roster spots. If anything, it should add roster flexibility since it removes the automatic substitutions from the NL game. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech

09-14-2015, 12:19 PM	#17
swoboda All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Guarding The Line Posts: 1,220	No DH. Baseball = 9 guys in the lineup not 10 __________________ "...If you want to look ahead to the bottom of the ninth, the Mets will be sending up Buddy Harrelson, Jerry Buchek , and Don Bosch, we'll be right back after this word from Rheingold Beer" The late great Lindsey Nelson

09-14-2015, 12:58 PM	#19
stl jason Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 10,112	heck if we want to specialize everything, might as well have 'designated fielders' so the defensive people who can hit worth a damn get to play, and 'designated batters' to fill their spots when it comes time to hit.