Do you have DH in both leagues - interesting blog and points - Page 3

jpeters1734 · 09-12-2014, 05:13 PM

A big reason I don't like the DH is because when a horrible hitting pitcher goes up to bat it's the equivalent to putting an average joe, like myself, in an ML batters box. I find it very intriguing. I'm willing to bet that I could hit better over 30 games than some ML pitchers.

I know for a lot of people that helps the argument for a DH, but I just thought I'd share.

rudel.dietrich · 09-12-2014, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

A big reason I don't like the DH is because when a horrible hitting pitcher goes up to bat it's the equivalent to putting an average joe, like myself, in an ML batters box. I find it very intriguing. I'm willing to bet that I could hit better over 30 games than some ML

I would be willing to bet your first born that in 30 games you could not even make contact.

Cryomaniac · 09-12-2014, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

I vote for a DH compromise.

Tango: Four hybrid DH solutions (vote) - Stats & Info Blog - ESPN

I personally love Solution 3: My Bodyguard

"An offshoot to Solution 2: As long as the starting pitcher remains in the game, so does his DH. Once the starter comes out of the game, so does the DH. In short, the DH becomes a pitcher's personal batter. If the starter is pulled for a reliever, the manager can pair a new DH for that reliever. But since relievers rarely come to bat more than once, this DH would become a de facto pinch hitter."

Compromise on the Designated Hitter - Beyond the Box Score

How about also allowing the DH for any position, not just the pitcher (but only one DH per lineup)?

chucksabr · 09-12-2014, 06:09 PM

Do any non-pitching starters hit poorly enough on a consistent basis to warrant a DH more than the pitcher?

pgjocki · 09-12-2014, 06:18 PM

Thanks for all the responses, this has been very interesting for me to gage how this community approaches this topic.

Cryomaniac · 09-12-2014, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucksabr

Do any non-pitching starters hit poorly enough on a consistent basis to warrant a DH more than the pitcher?

Perhaps not, but if you have a decent hitting pitcher and a guy who is maybe not 100% fit but can still field it would be useful to be able to do.

Ike348 · 09-12-2014, 09:47 PM

I play baseball for my high school team. Last year, as a freshman on the freshman team (yes I am 15), I would be DHed for every single game. I am a not a pitcher, but a great fielding second baseman who can't hit for anything. So, the guy who can't field but can hit really well DHed for me. Also, there was another freshman pitcher last year, Danny Boehmer, that was so good that he was the #1 pitcher on the varsity team. He was DHed for EVERY SINGLE GAME, which led to 3 plate appearances the entire year. I would assume the same is happening with guys across the country, and when the Danny Boehmers make the major leagues, they will have gone almost 10 years without hitting in a live game, give a few Pas here and there.

SO: Do I like the DH? No. Do I want in baseball? No. Should it be in baseball? Yes. The disaster that the implantation of the DH 40 years ago ruined player development so much that it can not be changed now. If pitchers continue to not hit until they play in the National League, then I see no reason why there shouldn't be a DH in the NL too.

jpeters1734 · 09-12-2014, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike348

I play baseball for my high school team. Last year, as a freshman on the freshman team (yes I am 15), I would be DHed for every single game. I am a not a pitcher, but a great fielding second baseman who can't hit for anything. So, the guy who can't field but can hit really well DHed for me. Also, there was another freshman pitcher last year, Danny Boehmer, that was so good that he was the #1 pitcher on the varsity team. He was DHed for EVERY SINGLE GAME, which led to 3 plate appearances the entire year. I would assume the same is happening with guys across the country, and when the Danny Boehmers make the major leagues, they will have gone almost 10 years without hitting in a live game, give a few Pas here and there.

SO: Do I like the DH? No. Do I want in baseball? No. Should it be in baseball? Yes. The disaster that the implantation of the DH 40 years ago ruined player development so much that it can not be changed now. If pitchers continue to not hit until they play in the National League, then I see no reason why there shouldn't be a DH in the NL too.

lol, leave it to a 15 year old to begin to change my mind. I am inclined to agree with you. However, I still wouldn't want a DH. This has been a very good thread. there's a lot of great points

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 09-12-2014, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike348

SO: Do I like the DH? No. Do I want in baseball? No. Should it be in baseball? Yes. The disaster that the implantation of the DH 40 years ago ruined player development so much that it can not be changed now. If pitchers continue to not hit until they play in the National League, then I see no reason why there shouldn't be a DH in the NL too.

I wouldn't go overboard in blaming the introduction of the DH in the AL for turning pitchers into bad hitters. Pitchers in the modern era, going back to basically the beginning of the 20th Century, have always been bad hitters, as chucksabr's chart shows -- sub-Mendoza Line. They've gotten worse, but they were never good. That's why the DH had been talked about long before 1973, going back to the 1920s and earlier.

eborix · 09-12-2014, 11:33 PM

To me its always been about making choices.

You want the great fielding SS, you have to put up with his poor hitting

You want the great hitter, you put up with his poor glove

for the person who handles the ball on every play on defense, you have to have a strategy for getting through his AB without destroying your offense.

To me, the DH is a specialization tool that is out of place in the generalization that is baseball. Specialization is for football where you can bring in someone who is great at handling a special situation but little else. In baseball, if you spend so much time working on 1 aspect of the game that you suck at the rest, you should have to pay a penalty for it.

When I play historical, I go with what they really used at the time. In my fantasy leagues I always have the DH off.

RchW · 09-13-2014, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eborix

To me its always been about making choices.

You want the great fielding SS, you have to put up with his poor hitting

You want the great hitter, you put up with his poor glove

for the person who handles the ball on every play on defense, you have to have a strategy for getting through his AB without destroying your offense.

To me, the DH is a specialization tool that is out of place in the generalization that is baseball. Specialization is for football where you can bring in someone who is great at handling a special situation but little else. In baseball, if you spend so much time working on 1 aspect of the game that you suck at the rest, you should have to pay a penalty for it.

When I play historical, I go with what they really used at the time. In my fantasy leagues I always have the DH off.

By that reasoning no relief pitcher should ever be allowed to pitch to one batter. Maybe the rule should be that he must pitch to at least one RH and LH batter before he can be taken out. No pinch hitters, no defensive replacements or pinch runners either.

It's too bad OOTP won't allow the use of courtesy runners in historical leagues.

http://retrosheet.org/courtesy.htm

Ike348 · 09-13-2014, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

I wouldn't go overboard in blaming the introduction of the DH in the AL for turning pitchers into bad hitters. Pitchers in the modern era, going back to basically the beginning of the 20th Century, have always been bad hitters, as chucksabr's chart shows -- sub-Mendoza Line. They've gotten worse, but they were never good. That's why the DH had been talked about long before 1973, going back to the 1920s and earlier.

Sure, but I'm blaming the the fact that pitchers are now being DHed for at such a young age, that now they don't get any oppurtunity to hit, therefore accelerating the downward spiral when they reach the NL. I don't know how long there have been DHs in high school or youth leagues, but I just assumed that the AL DH led to more youth DH leagues. I could be far from right, however.

chucksabr · 09-13-2014, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ike348

I play baseball for my high school team. Last year, as a freshman on the freshman team (yes I am 15), I would be DHed for every single game. I am a not a pitcher, but a great fielding second baseman who can't hit for anything. So, the guy who can't field but can hit really well DHed for me. Also, there was another freshman pitcher last year, Danny Boehmer, that was so good that he was the #1 pitcher on the varsity team. He was DHed for EVERY SINGLE GAME, which led to 3 plate appearances the entire year. I would assume the same is happening with guys across the country, and when the Danny Boehmers make the major leagues, they will have gone almost 10 years without hitting in a live game, give a few Pas here and there.

Funny story: I was at end of my cohort (born July 11, league cutoff July 31) so I was smaller than most kids in the cohort, and they got bigger faster, so I became afraid of a fast pitched ball. (I was an exclusively RH hitter against almost universally RH pitchers in Little League. I am now a switch hitter in an adult league.) But I was also a slick fielding 3B, the best in the league at the time. The DH was brand new and I lived in an AL town, so I asked to be DH'ed for, and the coach agreed to do it. I still made the All-Star team as a 3B.

The next year I had a new coach who was not going to put up with my nonsense and forced me to go to the plate--mind you, he wasn't going to coach me or anything, he was just going to make me go to bat--where I was frozen stiff, striking out looking constantly. One game, middle of the season, my oldest brother came up to me while I was on deck and offered me a 1/4 pound of M&Ms for every base I got, if I would get a hit. Lo and behold, I got a triple! After that I pushed down my fear and actually became one of the better hitters on the team.

And the moral of the story is: Never underestimate the power of the candy incentive.

BIG17EASY · 09-13-2014, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucksabr

Funny story: I was at end of my cohort (born July 11, league cutoff July 31) so I was smaller than most kids in the cohort, and they got bigger faster, so I became afraid of a fast pitched ball. (I was an exclusively RH hitter against almost universally RH pitchers in Little League. I am now a switch hitter in an adult league.) But I was also a slick fielding 3B, the best in the league at the time. The DH was brand new and I lived in an AL town, so I asked to be DH'ed for, and the coach agreed to do it. I still made the All-Star team as a 3B.

The next year I had a new coach who was not going to put up with my nonsense and forced me to go to the plate--mind you, he wasn't going to coach me or anything, he was just going to make me go to bat--where I was frozen stiff, striking out looking constantly. One game, middle of the season, my oldest brother came up to me while I was on deck and offered me a 1/4 pound of M&Ms for every base I got, if I would get a hit. Lo and behold, I got a triple! After that I pushed down my fear and actually became one of the better hitters on the team.

And the moral of the story is: Never underestimate the power of the candy incentive.

Everyone knows the green M&M's make you hit home runs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap6pAUBsl30

rudel.dietrich · 09-13-2014, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucksabr

And the moral of the story is: Never underestimate the power of the candy incentive.

So that is what the Braves were doing wrong with Dan Uggla for three years.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 09-13-2014, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Everyone knows the green M&M's make you hit home runs.

"So there I am, in St. Louis, at about 3 o'clock in the morning, looking for one thousand brown M&Ms to fill a brandy glass, or Ozzie wouldn't take the field that night. So, Whitey pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So - we go. And - it's closed. So there's me, and Keith Hernandez, and Lonnie Smith, breaking into that little sweets shop, eh. Well, instead of a guard dog, they've got this bloody great big mountain lion. I managed to take out the mountain lion with a can of mace, but the shopowner and his son... that's a different story altogether. I had to beat them to death with their own shoes. Nasty business, really. But, sure enough, I got the M&Ms, and Ozzie took the field and had a great game."

eborix · 09-13-2014, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

By that reasoning no relief pitcher should ever be allowed to pitch to one batter. Maybe the rule should be that he must pitch to at least one RH and LH batter before he can be taken out. No pinch hitters, no defensive replacements or pinch runners either.

It's too bad OOTP won't allow the use of courtesy runners in historical leagues.

Courtesy Runners

Not exactly. If you bring in a RP to pitch to one guy you do pay. The original pitcher is out, and this guy is out after only facing 1 guy. For that reasoning to carry out to this situation, you would have to be able to use that RP anytime a left handed batter comes up, while still able to use your starter for the right handers.

The Game · 06-09-2015, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucksabr

but after having been a Cubs season ticket holder for 16 seasons,

Sorry to hear that.

Pigmustachegamr · 06-20-2015, 10:28 PM

Honestly, I prefer having a DH. While no DH puts spice in the game. There is a reason that pitchers shouldn't hit, and that's because they suck at it.

I personally think the MLB should put a DH in both leagues because it makes it easier for teams to be able to sign extra players that can hit well and still be able to use them with the DH spot.

In OOTP, the DH spot helps me in so many ways, as in if I have 2 good 1B prospects coming up, I can trade my currect 1B and DH for some nice pitching and bring up my prospects, and all of a sudden I have a better lineup and a better pitching staff.

Kilborn · 01-16-2016, 11:36 PM

Frankly, I like the DH for the opportunity it gives guys who otherwise could not continue to play. Paul Molitor, Eddie Murray, Vladimir Guerrero and even Mickey Tettleton eventually reached a point in their careers where their bodies could not hold up in the field, but they were able to continue their careers as DH because it created less wear and tear on their bodies.

09-12-2014, 05:13 PM	#41
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 5,911	A big reason I don't like the DH is because when a horrible hitting pitcher goes up to bat it's the equivalent to putting an average joe, like myself, in an ML batters box. I find it very intriguing. I'm willing to bet that I could hit better over 30 games than some ML pitchers. I know for a lot of people that helps the argument for a DH, but I just thought I'd share. __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

09-12-2014, 06:09 PM	#44
chucksabr Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: In the canyons of your mind Posts: 3,181	Do any non-pitching starters hit poorly enough on a consistent basis to warrant a DH more than the pitcher? __________________ The (English) Baseball League (est. 1888): A History The 1932 Season is Underway Dynasty Mission \| Creation Story \| Subscribe 1888 1889 1890 1891 1892 1893 1894 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903 1904 1905 1906 1907 1908 1909 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914 (Great War Hiatus) 1919 1920 1921 1922 1923 1924 1925 1926 1927 1928 1929 1930 1931 The OOTP Interview about the Baseball League

09-12-2014, 06:18 PM	#45
pgjocki All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Maryland - just outside DC Posts: 1,574 Blog Entries: 1	Thanks for all the responses, this has been very interesting for me to gage how this community approaches this topic. __________________ - - - World Series championships: 1926, 1931, 1934, 1942, 1944, 1946, 1964, 1967, 1982, 2006, 2011

09-12-2014, 11:33 PM	#50
eborix Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Shepherdsville KY Posts: 228	To me its always been about making choices. You want the great fielding SS, you have to put up with his poor hitting You want the great hitter, you put up with his poor glove for the person who handles the ball on every play on defense, you have to have a strategy for getting through his AB without destroying your offense. To me, the DH is a specialization tool that is out of place in the generalization that is baseball. Specialization is for football where you can bring in someone who is great at handling a special situation but little else. In baseball, if you spend so much time working on 1 aspect of the game that you suck at the rest, you should have to pay a penalty for it. When I play historical, I go with what they really used at the time. In my fantasy leagues I always have the DH off.

06-20-2015, 10:28 PM	#59
Pigmustachegamr Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 10	Honestly, I prefer having a DH. While no DH puts spice in the game. There is a reason that pitchers shouldn't hit, and that's because they suck at it. I personally think the MLB should put a DH in both leagues because it makes it easier for teams to be able to sign extra players that can hit well and still be able to use them with the DH spot. In OOTP, the DH spot helps me in so many ways, as in if I have 2 good 1B prospects coming up, I can trade my currect 1B and DH for some nice pitching and bring up my prospects, and all of a sudden I have a better lineup and a better pitching staff.

01-16-2016, 11:36 PM	#60
Kilborn Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 26	Frankly, I like the DH for the opportunity it gives guys who otherwise could not continue to play. Paul Molitor, Eddie Murray, Vladimir Guerrero and even Mickey Tettleton eventually reached a point in their careers where their bodies could not hold up in the field, but they were able to continue their careers as DH because it created less wear and tear on their bodies.