What will be your first expansion teams?

[Orioles1966]

I have decided that there will be no expansion draft when my Continental League expands by 4 teams. The ABA(6 expansion teams) will have an expansion draft.

The Albuquerque Gears(who previously were the New York Warriors) will send the new expansion New York Warriors 14 players.

My expansion teams form on March 15th so they only have about 2 weeks to get their teams ready for the regular season. I play regular season games 8-9 days before the official start of the regular season. During that time period I allow 40 player rosters.

[aquapong]

Honolulu would be a good place in theory, but in practice the long flights would wreck havoc. How about El Paso? It would draw in the west Texas, north Mexico, and New Mexico regions.

['94 EXPOS]

Originally Posted by Masson26

I will never understand why people believe so hard that Montreal needs a new teams. Do people not remember how terrible they're attendance records where? Even when the were dominating in 94 they barely broke 20k a game. And dont give me that crap about them just needing a new stadiums, fans go to games to see the game not the stadium.

Have to disagree with you there. Olympic Stadium: 1. Horrible location. 2. An unsafe embarrassment that was only recently paid off. 3. Horrible layout and sightlines. I hated the place. And I love my team.

The CFL's Alouettes left the Big O for a university stadium with less amenities but a much better atmosphere. They went from a franchise about to fold to a fixture in the city's core.

The 49,000 that come out to two meaningless Blue Jay exhibition games are also another strong indicator that the fans are there.

Expos merchandise is also still very popular.

Baseball can work in Montreal.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by '94 EXPOS

Have to disagree with you there. Olympic Stadium: 1. Horrible location. 2. An unsafe embarrassment that was only recently paid off. 3. Horrible layout and sightlines. I hated the place. And I love my team.

The CFL's Alouettes left the Big O for a university stadium with less amenities but a much better atmosphere. They went from a franchise about to fold to a fixture in the city's core.

The 49,000 that come out to two meaningless Blue Jay exhibition games are also another strong indicator that the fans are there.

Expos merchandise is also still very popular.

Baseball can work in Montreal.

Is there enough corporate support there now? I know the mayor is a huge supporter of the return of baseball and that's a big turnaround from the '00's when the team was relocated. Also need to get funding for a stadium and that might prove to be tricky after the SkyDome/Rogers Centre boondoggle. As for those that would say "One strike and your out": How many teams in the 145 year history of professional baseball has the city of Washington had again? Montreal's only ever had one. How about a second chance?

If Montreal can get all their ducks lined up (and that is admittedly a big if), they deserve another shot to make this thing work. MLB's never seen anything like baseball in Montreal, and it could use it again...Oompa bands, PA announcements in English and French, a tremendous, vibrant city that offers lots of fun for visiting players and fans alike. Get it done Montreal.

[Theory]

I haven't played ootp since 14 - can league expansion be automatic?
Will the game recommend locations or is that manual?

['94 EXPOS]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Is there enough corporate support there now? I know the mayor is a huge supporter of the return of baseball and that's a big turnaround from the '00's when the team was relocated. Also need to get funding for a stadium and that might prove to be tricky after the SkyDome/Rogers Centre boondoggle. As for those that would say "One strike and your out": How many teams in the 145 year history of professional baseball has the city of Washington had again? Montreal's only ever had one. How about a second chance?

If Montreal can get all their ducks lined up (and that is admittedly a big if), they deserve another shot to make this thing work. MLB's never seen anything like baseball in Montreal, and it could use it again...Oompa bands, PA announcements in English and French, a tremendous, vibrant city that offers lots of fun for visiting players and fans alike. Get it done Montreal.

It sure is a big IF.......but one (or many) can always dream!

['94 EXPOS]

Originally Posted by Theory

I haven't played ootp since 14 - can league expansion be automatic?
Will the game recommend locations or is that manual?

If you leave league evolution on it will expand automatically....both historical games and new games.


I find the OOTP expansion rules to work quite well but they are not authentic....you can make customize it to some extent though


Choosing to expand manually is also very user friendly now as well

[Masson26]

Originally Posted by '94 EXPOS

Have to disagree with you there. Olympic Stadium: 1. Horrible location. 2. An unsafe embarrassment that was only recently paid off. 3. Horrible layout and sightlines. I hated the place. And I love my team.

The CFL's Alouettes left the Big O for a university stadium with less amenities but a much better atmosphere. They went from a franchise about to fold to a fixture in the city's core.

The 49,000 that come out to two meaningless Blue Jay exhibition games are also another strong indicator that the fans are there.

Expos merchandise is also still very popular.

Baseball can work in Montreal.

the 49,000 thats showed up to those exhibitions games proves very little as theres a HUGE differnce for showing up to a game once a year and showing up 81 times a year, which was proven over and over again and they wont do.

['94 EXPOS]

Originally Posted by Masson26

the 49,000 thats showed up to those exhibitions games proves very little as theres a HUGE differnce for showing up to a game once a year and showing up 81 times a year, which was proven over and over again and they wont do.

I understand your reservations but I honestly believe - from following the franchise very closely - that the attendance problems were more linked to incredibly bungled ownership and the worst stadium in the history of MLB.


The team has been gone for more then10 years but if you check out 'Expos Nation', the 'Montreal Baseball Project' and Facebook you might come around to the idea that the fan support is significant.


And drawing close to 100,000 fans to two (each year) Grapefruit League games to support a team that we used to hate is not meaningless when considering the amount of fan support in the city.


The Canadian dollar and corporate support are the biggest obstacles to another franchise in Montreal.


On a side note, with Macier Izturis' retirement we are left with only Bartolo Colon as the only MLB player left to have worn the Expos jersey.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Ugh. Four-team divisions. A thousand times no!

Ten thousand times yes! And no wild cards ever again! Win your division or go home!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Masson26

I will never understand why people believe so hard that Montreal needs a new teams. Do people not remember how terrible they're attendance records where? Even when the were dominating in 94 they barely broke 20k a game. And dont give me that crap about them just needing a new stadiums, fans go to games to see the game not the stadium.

I remember. Outside of Toronto, baseball in Canada is a terrible idea.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Ten thousand times yes! And no wild cards ever again! Win your division or go home!

Four-team divisions are for the minor leagues and football, not major league baseball. Minimum five teams in a division; ideally, six. (Seven or eight is all right, but tends to fall on the 'too large' side.)

[Orioles1966]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Four-team divisions are for the minor leagues and football, not major league baseball. Minimum five teams in a division; ideally, six. (Seven or eight is all right, but tends to fall on the 'too large' side.)

Too many cheap champions in the NFL. It's like winning an IQ test against the Three Stooges. Someone has too win no matter how bad the division(Jets,Dolphins and Bills are a good example).

['94 EXPOS]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I remember. Outside of Toronto, baseball in Canada is a terrible idea.

Please explain

[Masson26]

Originally Posted by '94 EXPOS

Please explain

they had it, no one cared when the stadium was brand new, no one cared under any management/ownership, nobody showed up in 94 when they dominated. And facebook has ZERO relevance to someone supporting a teams, once again huge difference from "liking" a page then actually shelling out money and going to the game.

As far as the stadium, show me one time...one...that a new stadium had any change in attendance for more than one season.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Masson26

they had it, no one cared when the stadium was brand new, no one cared under any management/ownership, nobody showed up in 94 when they dominated.

The year-by-year per game average attendance of the Expos compared to the MLB per game average. Ratio is the Expos figure divided by the MLB figure.

Year     MON      MLB   Ratio
-----------------------------
1969   14,970   13,993   1.07
1970   17,809   14,788   1.20
1971   16,137   15,064   1.07
1972   14,643   14,507   1.01
1973   15,393   15,496   0.99
1974   12,739   15,437   0.83
1975   11,213   15,403   0.73
1976    8,084   16,152   0.50
1977   17,701   18,407   0.96
1978   17,838   19,332   0.92
1979   25,953   20,748   1.25
1980   27,602   20,434   1.35
1981   27,403   19,042   1.44
1982   28,621   21,162   1.35
1983   28,650   21,593   1.33
1984   19,834   21,256   0.93
1985   18,549   22,266   0.83
1986   14,112   22,590   0.62
1987   22,844   24,709   0.92
1988   18,255   25,238   0.72
1989   22,019   26,198   0.84
1990   16,952   26,045   0.65
1991   13,746   27,003   0.51
1992   20,607   26,529   0.78
1993   20,265   30,964   0.65
1994   24,543   31,256   0.79
1995   18,189   25,022   0.73
1996   19,959   26,510   0.75
1997   18,489   27,877   0.66
1998   11,295   29,054   0.39
1999    9,547   28,888   0.33
2000   11,435   29,378   0.39
2001    7,935   29,881   0.27
2002   10,025   28,007   0.36
2003   12,662   27,831   0.45
2004    9,369   30,075   0.31

The 1979-83 period looks pretty good; 1987 is also good (the club was competitive that season, finishing 91-71). Olympic Stadium was undeniably a problem for the club; recall that in 1992 a structural problem forced the club to play 13 home games on the road. The 1994-95 strike also hit the club hard.

Originally Posted by Masson26

As far as the stadium, show me one time...one...that a new stadium had any change in attendance for more than one season.

New ballparks tend to result in boosted attendance for a team for about three seasons on average. This 'new stadium' effect has been looked at in several studies.

['94 EXPOS]

Originally Posted by Masson26

they had it, no one cared when the stadium was brand new, no one cared under any management/ownership, nobody showed up in 94 when they dominated. And facebook has ZERO relevance to someone supporting a teams, once again huge difference from "liking" a page then actually shelling out money and going to the game.

As far as the stadium, show me one time...one...that a new stadium had any change in attendance for more than one season.

My point wasn't just about the stadium....but it certainly played a significant role in the franchise's struggles...I could elaborate but this is just going in a pointless circle

[Masson26]

Originally Posted by '94 EXPOS

My point wasn't just about the stadium....but it certainly played a significant role in the franchise's struggles...I could elaborate but this is just going in a pointless circle

the figures just prove that Montreal had fair weather fans that gave up on the team. And no it generally increases for one season (look into it) and what are they gonna do after that first season when they have an expansion team big on young talents that they have to let walk in the prime of their careers (sounds familiar?), they will stop showing up just like every other time the team went through a downward period.

And what does the strike have to do with fans not showing up BEFORE it happened when they were fielding and all time great team that year?

And for anyone whos been to stadiums like Wrigley, Fenway and the old Yankee stadium, once you got past the historical value of them, they are dumps that in most case are or had fallen apart. The fans are what makes the environment. Plus you have teams like Miami, Houston, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, etcc....all small market teams that got new stadiums to "Save them", all still small markets teams because it made no difference in the long term, because the fans just dont care. Putting another team in Montreal would be just like putting another team in Tampa, its just not going to work not matter you do.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Masson26

the figures just prove that Montreal had fair weather fans that gave up on the team.

That's like a lot of clubs—there are plenty of econometric studies which have looked at the connection between on-the-field performance and attendance, and the correlation is strong.

Recall also that in 2001 MLB began to openly talk about contraction—with the Expos named as one of the two clubs targetted for elimination. That's not exactly going to draw fans to the ballpark.

Originally Posted by Masson26

And no it generally increases for one season (look into it) and what are they gonna do after that first season when they have an expansion team big on young talents that they have to let walk in the prime of their careers (sounds familiar?), they will stop showing up just like every other time the team went through a downward period.

Will it be any worse than the Marlins or Rays?

Originally Posted by Masson26

And what does the strike have to do with fans not showing up BEFORE it happened when they were fielding and all time great team that year?

Attendance increases often lag a year. That is, while performance in the current season will often result in an attendance boost, it is also the performance the season prior which also affects attendance. (Again, see the various studies that have been done on the subject. There are plenty of MLB examples of a club winning during a season, but the attendance not really going up substantially until the next season.)

Originally Posted by Masson26

And for anyone whos been to stadiums like Wrigley, Fenway and the old Yankee stadium, once you got past the historical value of them, they are dumps that in most case are or had fallen apart.

Please provide citations that your view of those parks as "dumps" was widely shared by others.

Originally Posted by Masson26

The fans are what makes the environment. Plus you have teams like Miami, Houston, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, etcc....all small market teams that got new stadiums to "Save them", all still small markets teams because it made no difference in the long term, because the fans just dont care.

New stadiums were about revenue generation. As in the newer parks were much better at generating revenue than the parks they replaced.

The Pirates, incidentally, have seen their attendance go from 1.6 million in 2010 (when the club was 57-105) to a hair under 2.5 million in 2015. That's an average of 30.845 per game—an entirely healthy figure (the MLB average was 30,517). The Twins drew over 3 million in 2010 and 2011; it dipped to 2.2 million last year, the fifth consecutive season the club has not been competitive.

[kungfupandacam]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The Pirates, incidentally, have seen their attendance go from 1.6 million in 2010 (when the club was 57-105) to a hair under 2.5 million in 2015. That's an average of 30.845 per game—an entirely healthy figure (the MLB average was 30,517). The Twins drew over 3 million in 2010 and 2011; it dipped to 2.2 million last year, the fifth consecutive season the club has not been competitive.

Wait, the Pirates only had 30.845 people per game. Gosh, I thought they were only a little below MLB average.