Historical MLB/Minors roster and db issues go here - Page 10

mgom27 · 03-30-2016, 09:10 PM

Maybe in the future.
Reds acquired Finnegan in the Cueto Traded but is still showed on Royals Roster that Cueto is also on. Ben Zobrist was Traded for Sean Meansa. Any chance Historical Rosters choose between Start of Season or End of Season?

Spritze · 03-31-2016, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgom27

Any chance Historical Rosters choose between Start of Season or End of Season?

For the MLB with historical transactions off no choices. MiLB the same plus no Transaction file exists at all. Rosters are set when the game is created. From there all moves are fictional when no transaction file is in use.

mgom27 · 03-31-2016, 08:15 AM

Cueto on 2015 Royals got Traded for Finnegan on 2015 Royals,Lamb and other.
Ben Zobrist not on Royals got Traded for Sean Meansa.
2014 Royals has the guys they acquired at Deadline on the Roster

Spritze · 03-31-2016, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgom27

They why is 2015 Royals half opening day and half Trade Deadline?

Stints - BBref does not have them. Stints have been added to the next full update.

progen · 04-01-2016, 01:28 PM

Tug McGraw

I'm in December of 1963, and doing the player draft and saw that the "Tugger" was just drafted by Milwaukee, and he's incorrectly listed as a right hander.

mywaydimag · 04-01-2016, 04:20 PM

Sorry for my ignorance, what do you mean by "a level up"?

Spritze · 04-01-2016, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mywaydimag

Sorry for my ignorance, what do you mean by "a level up"?

I think that is a Super Mario reference and it also means it is not a data issue so it ought to be in Bug Reports.

Autumn_Lion · 04-01-2016, 04:24 PM

I like to replay historical seasons. I tried replaying the 1922 season (for both the AL and NL) ten times. I encountered a number of problems, which I will detail below, but basically there are two significant issues. First, the hitting is out of control; in just ten replays I saw lots of all-time records tied or broken. Second, at least one team, the 1922 White Sox, is rated incorrectly ... the real 1922 White Sox went 77-77 and weren't actually even that good (they sank to 69-85 the next year), but in ten replays they only once had a mediocre record, and on three occasions they won the pennant (winning 98 games once, 95 another time, 91 a third time). No way this mediocre .500 team should win three pennants in ten years.

Now, for the out-of-control hitting ..

Jake Daubert once hit .403. Real life - .337.
Ross Youngs hit .400. Real life - .331.
Cotton Tierney hit .398. Real life - .345.
Ray Grimes hit .417. Real life - .354.
Hack Miller hit .418. Real life - .352.
Tris Speaker hit .426 and .428. Real life - .378.
Ty Cobb hit .440, .422, .422. Real life - .401. (He also had a 56-game hitting streak; move over, Joe DiMaggio.)
Ken Williams drove in 198 runs one year; in real life the all-time record is 190.

I could cite more examples, but I think these suffice. Way too many so-so players (Jake Daubert, Ray Grimes and Hack Miller) are hitting .400.

One last odd note ... Rogers Hornsby might be the one guy in OOTP whose hitting is NOT overrated. In real life he hit .424 in 1922; in my ten replays, he never hit that high even once.

Spritze · 04-01-2016, 04:33 PM

This is being fixed already. Hopefully in time for the next build. As of this moment it is still broken. Not a data error. Just a season progression error.

MightyVotto · 04-01-2016, 09:22 PM

This is a potential bug I've noticed for a few versions now. I thought it had something to do with importing a long term historical replay league for a few years. So, I didn't report it. However, I started a new replay league with 17, and the issue is still there.

When new players enter a league, they are one year older than they were in real life. This is according to their ages on Baseball Ref. For instance, Ty Cobb enters the league in 1905, and he is 19. His birthday is one year older than it should be according to BR. He was actually 18 in 1905.

This issue only happens with new players as they debut each year. The ages and birthdays are correct for those who are in the league for the year the sim is started.

In my previous league, I would go through each team's roster each year and adjust the new players so their ages matched what was shown in BR. They were always imported in as one year older than they should have been.

If I recall, this is an issue that started appearing in my league a couple of years ago but was not present the few years I ran that league prior to that.

Thanks!

Spritze · 04-01-2016, 10:34 PM

Ty Cobb birthday in the game is 12/18/1886 which is correct. If Mr. Cobb enters the league prior to 6/18/1905 he is rounded to 18 after that he is 19. For display porpoises only. His birthday is still 12/18/1886 which is when he is fully 19.0

MightyVotto · 04-02-2016, 11:34 AM

Well, that's not how it is working in game when you play with real historical transactions. All new players for the next year, enter the game when you advance to the date in which playoffs end.

Cobb (and all new players since the initial season of 1901) entered in Oct. 1904 with his birth year as 1885, which would make him one year older than he should have been going forward. I've already manually adjusted his year. But Donie Bush just entered my league as he should have in 1907 to appear in 1908. His birth year is set to 1886. BR shows it should be 1887. This is happening to all new players who are imported into the league. And it's been happening for a few game versions.

Why is the program changing the players' years when it imports them? It does it correctly when the sim is first started, which makes me think that the dates are initially correct and then, they are being changed by the program when importing the new players. This needs to be addressed. It's annoying to have to manually fix every new player's birth year when using real transactions.

Ravi · 04-03-2016, 01:56 PM

With the database update today, I've been checking out the PCL years that were added to the game (specifically 1924). Looks to me like there are no pitching stats for the PCL: batting and fielding stats are there, but not pitching.

That seems odd because the TL does have pitching stats. Is this something that will be added later?

Spritze · 04-03-2016, 02:46 PM

1921-1931 PCL Pitching stats are included in the files sent to Markus. I checked 1924 and it is there. I'll test that out today.

That file was not used in this build accidently. It happens.

I let Markus know and sent him another copy of it.

Markus Heinsohn · 04-03-2016, 04:05 PM

Here you go:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...available.html

Ravi · 04-03-2016, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Here you go:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...available.html

Man you guys work fast! That is awesome, thanks Markus & Spritze.

Autumn_Lion · 04-03-2016, 07:31 PM

This is a follow-up to my post of April 1. I posted at that time that I replayed the 1922 season and that (a) the hitting stats were way too high, and (b) some teams, such as the Chicago White Sox, appeared to have incorrect ratings. Well, I just applied the new patch and reran the 1922 season five times. I'm happy to report that the hitting stats are much better (Ken Williams drove in 182 runs once, which raised a red flag, but by and large things looked good --- guys were no longer hitting 75 points above their real-life batting average). But there are two AL teams that clearly have some rating problems. In real life, the Cleveland Indians won 78 games in 1922; I replayed the season five times and they averaged only 63 wins. The Chicago White Sox in real life won 77 games; in my five replays they averaged 87 wins. Other teams in the simulations had occasional oddities; for example, the St. Louis Cardinals, winners of 85 games in real life, had a replay season in which they won only 62. But in the other replays their win total was more in line with real life, so that 62-win season was probably just a fluke. For the Indians and White Sox, however, the results were consistent; not once did the Indians get very close to the 78 wins they had in real life, and not once did the White Sox fail to exceed (often by large amounts) their real-life win total of 77. Something is wrong here.

Hoiles · 04-03-2016, 08:05 PM

Using the newest historical minors DB uploaded to dropbox today, it looks like the duplicate initialed players issue is still around. In a 1994 league, there's a separate J T Snow (major league stats only) and lowly rated J.T. Snow (minor league stats only), similarly major league B J Surhoff and minor league B. J. Surhoff. Though, I started a 1991 league and this issue wasn't there.

pstrickert · 04-03-2016, 08:07 PM

Autumn Lion, I'm glad to hear you're into historical replays. I just imported the 1922 season using 1-yr recalc with real lineups and transactions. When I compare results, I tend to look at the Pyth W-L record, since this (supposedly) eliminates luck. So, here's what happened in my 1922 sim. The first figure is their W-L record, the second their Pyth W-L record:

CHW: 82-72 (81-73)
CLE: 70-84 (78-76)
SLN: 85-69 (85-69)

In real life, this is what happened:

CHW: 77-77 (77-77)
CLE: 78-76 (73-81)
SLN: 85-69 (81-73)

As you can see, the Pyth W-L records are comparable between sim and real life. I could re-run the sim several more times. But I'm left wondering if you're using single-season replay mode (1-yr recalc) with real lineups and transactions.

NOTE: I've noticed in my many different simmed seasons that some season results are harder to replicate in OOTP. I'm thinking of 1959, for example. The Dodgers benefited from some luck that season. Plus, they were phenomenal in 1-run games. I also imagine they used the stolen base more effectively in real life than OOTP tends to use it. That might've helped a team like the Dodgers, too.

pstrickert · 04-03-2016, 08:12 PM

I just simmed the 1922 season again. Very similar results to the first sim.

03-30-2016, 09:10 PM	#181
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,529	Maybe in the future. Reds acquired Finnegan in the Cueto Traded but is still showed on Royals Roster that Cueto is also on. Ben Zobrist was Traded for Sean Meansa. Any chance Historical Rosters choose between Start of Season or End of Season? __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

03-31-2016, 08:15 AM	#183
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,529	Cueto on 2015 Royals got Traded for Finnegan on 2015 Royals,Lamb and other. Ben Zobrist not on Royals got Traded for Sean Meansa. 2014 Royals has the guys they acquired at Deadline on the Roster __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!! Last edited by mgom27; 03-31-2016 at 05:43 PM.

04-01-2016, 04:33 PM	#189
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	This is being fixed already. Hopefully in time for the next build. As of this moment it is still broken. Not a data error. Just a season progression error. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

04-01-2016, 09:22 PM	#190
MightyVotto Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 125	Historical Players Importing 1 year older than Baseball Ref Indicates This is a potential bug I've noticed for a few versions now. I thought it had something to do with importing a long term historical replay league for a few years. So, I didn't report it. However, I started a new replay league with 17, and the issue is still there. When new players enter a league, they are one year older than they were in real life. This is according to their ages on Baseball Ref. For instance, Ty Cobb enters the league in 1905, and he is 19. His birthday is one year older than it should be according to BR. He was actually 18 in 1905. This issue only happens with new players as they debut each year. The ages and birthdays are correct for those who are in the league for the year the sim is started. In my previous league, I would go through each team's roster each year and adjust the new players so their ages matched what was shown in BR. They were always imported in as one year older than they should have been. If I recall, this is an issue that started appearing in my league a couple of years ago but was not present the few years I ran that league prior to that. Thanks!

04-01-2016, 10:34 PM	#191
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	Ty Cobb birthday in the game is 12/18/1886 which is correct. If Mr. Cobb enters the league prior to 6/18/1905 he is rounded to 18 after that he is 19. For display porpoises only. His birthday is still 12/18/1886 which is when he is fully 19.0 __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

04-01-2016, 01:28 PM	#185
progen All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 1,530 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Tug McGraw I'm in December of 1963, and doing the player draft and saw that the "Tugger" was just drafted by Milwaukee, and he's incorrectly listed as a right hander.

04-01-2016, 04:20 PM	#186
mywaydimag Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 19	Sorry for my ignorance, what do you mean by "a level up"?

04-01-2016, 04:24 PM	#188
Autumn_Lion Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: West Chester, Ohio Posts: 16	I like to replay historical seasons. I tried replaying the 1922 season (for both the AL and NL) ten times. I encountered a number of problems, which I will detail below, but basically there are two significant issues. First, the hitting is out of control; in just ten replays I saw lots of all-time records tied or broken. Second, at least one team, the 1922 White Sox, is rated incorrectly ... the real 1922 White Sox went 77-77 and weren't actually even that good (they sank to 69-85 the next year), but in ten replays they only once had a mediocre record, and on three occasions they won the pennant (winning 98 games once, 95 another time, 91 a third time). No way this mediocre .500 team should win three pennants in ten years. Now, for the out-of-control hitting .. Jake Daubert once hit .403. Real life - .337. Ross Youngs hit .400. Real life - .331. Cotton Tierney hit .398. Real life - .345. Ray Grimes hit .417. Real life - .354. Hack Miller hit .418. Real life - .352. Tris Speaker hit .426 and .428. Real life - .378. Ty Cobb hit .440, .422, .422. Real life - .401. (He also had a 56-game hitting streak; move over, Joe DiMaggio.) Ken Williams drove in 198 runs one year; in real life the all-time record is 190. I could cite more examples, but I think these suffice. Way too many so-so players (Jake Daubert, Ray Grimes and Hack Miller) are hitting .400. One last odd note ... Rogers Hornsby might be the one guy in OOTP whose hitting is NOT overrated. In real life he hit .424 in 1922; in my ten replays, he never hit that high even once.

04-02-2016, 11:34 AM	#192
MightyVotto Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 125	Well, that's not how it is working in game when you play with real historical transactions. All new players for the next year, enter the game when you advance to the date in which playoffs end. Cobb (and all new players since the initial season of 1901) entered in Oct. 1904 with his birth year as 1885, which would make him one year older than he should have been going forward. I've already manually adjusted his year. But Donie Bush just entered my league as he should have in 1907 to appear in 1908. His birth year is set to 1886. BR shows it should be 1887. This is happening to all new players who are imported into the league. And it's been happening for a few game versions. Why is the program changing the players' years when it imports them? It does it correctly when the sim is first started, which makes me think that the dates are initially correct and then, they are being changed by the program when importing the new players. This needs to be addressed. It's annoying to have to manually fix every new player's birth year when using real transactions.

04-03-2016, 01:56 PM	#193
Ravi Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Paris, France Posts: 48	No Pitching Stats PCL? With the database update today, I've been checking out the PCL years that were added to the game (specifically 1924). Looks to me like there are no pitching stats for the PCL: batting and fielding stats are there, but not pitching. That seems odd because the TL does have pitching stats. Is this something that will be added later?

04-03-2016, 02:46 PM	#194
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,253	1921-1931 PCL Pitching stats are included in the files sent to Markus. I checked 1924 and it is there. I'll test that out today. That file was not used in this build accidently. It happens. I let Markus know and sent him another copy of it. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it! Last edited by Spritze; 04-03-2016 at 03:08 PM.

04-03-2016, 04:05 PM	#195
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,805	Here you go: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...available.html __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

04-03-2016, 07:31 PM	#197
Autumn_Lion Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: West Chester, Ohio Posts: 16	This is a follow-up to my post of April 1. I posted at that time that I replayed the 1922 season and that (a) the hitting stats were way too high, and (b) some teams, such as the Chicago White Sox, appeared to have incorrect ratings. Well, I just applied the new patch and reran the 1922 season five times. I'm happy to report that the hitting stats are much better (Ken Williams drove in 182 runs once, which raised a red flag, but by and large things looked good --- guys were no longer hitting 75 points above their real-life batting average). But there are two AL teams that clearly have some rating problems. In real life, the Cleveland Indians won 78 games in 1922; I replayed the season five times and they averaged only 63 wins. The Chicago White Sox in real life won 77 games; in my five replays they averaged 87 wins. Other teams in the simulations had occasional oddities; for example, the St. Louis Cardinals, winners of 85 games in real life, had a replay season in which they won only 62. But in the other replays their win total was more in line with real life, so that 62-win season was probably just a fluke. For the Indians and White Sox, however, the results were consistent; not once did the Indians get very close to the 78 wins they had in real life, and not once did the White Sox fail to exceed (often by large amounts) their real-life win total of 77. Something is wrong here.

04-03-2016, 08:05 PM	#198
Hoiles All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 574	Using the newest historical minors DB uploaded to dropbox today, it looks like the duplicate initialed players issue is still around. In a 1994 league, there's a separate J T Snow (major league stats only) and lowly rated J.T. Snow (minor league stats only), similarly major league B J Surhoff and minor league B. J. Surhoff. Though, I started a 1991 league and this issue wasn't there.

04-03-2016, 08:07 PM	#199
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,374	Autumn Lion, I'm glad to hear you're into historical replays. I just imported the 1922 season using 1-yr recalc with real lineups and transactions. When I compare results, I tend to look at the Pyth W-L record, since this (supposedly) eliminates luck. So, here's what happened in my 1922 sim. The first figure is their W-L record, the second their Pyth W-L record: CHW: 82-72 (81-73) CLE: 70-84 (78-76) SLN: 85-69 (85-69) In real life, this is what happened: CHW: 77-77 (77-77) CLE: 78-76 (73-81) SLN: 85-69 (81-73) As you can see, the Pyth W-L records are comparable between sim and real life. I could re-run the sim several more times. But I'm left wondering if you're using single-season replay mode (1-yr recalc) with real lineups and transactions. NOTE: I've noticed in my many different simmed seasons that some season results are harder to replicate in OOTP. I'm thinking of 1959, for example. The Dodgers benefited from some luck that season. Plus, they were phenomenal in 1-run games. I also imagine they used the stolen base more effectively in real life than OOTP tends to use it. That might've helped a team like the Dodgers, too. Last edited by pstrickert; 04-04-2016 at 06:04 PM.

04-03-2016, 08:12 PM	#200
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,374	I just simmed the 1922 season again. Very similar results to the first sim.