How have you been enjoying OOTP 17? How does it rate a few months later?

[Habsfan18]

The forums usually quiet down around this time of year - a few months after release, but I noticed that some of the regulars are still around.

I did put my league on hold while the free agency issue was being sorted out for superstar hitters, but I was pleased to receive word that it had been tweaked and is now working like a charm. I've been playing the heck out of OOTP again this past week!

Are you guys enjoying OOTP 17 as much as I am? My fictional MLB is now in 2059 and the face of the MLB, Bill Dick, has retired after a first-ballot HOF type of career. Washington 1B Noah Pennington has won 2 consecutive MVP's and looks primed to take over as the new face of the league, along with many young superstars around the league. Miami ace Antonio Leon is coming off a season in which he struck out 284 batters (10th highest in history - 1901-2059) and at only 26, he looks to have a bright future ahead of him. He's already has 2x Cy Young's and an MVP to his credit.

What are some recent going on's in your league? How is your team performing? Or for those who play spectator mode like I do, any big blockbuster trades or huge performances lately?

Are you pleased with the new features introduced this year? I know that for me, I wouldn't be able to go without the game recaps and headlines now. Really adds to the immersion of my league. Same with the individualized GM's.

One aspect that I want to dive deeper in though, is the historical minors. I'm just not sure that it's where it needs to be right now, at least from reading a few threads and comments. Then again, I fully understand that a project that is so massive will obviously take time to get exactly right. Maybe a few historical guys can chime in here?

Anyways, just wanted to use this as something of a "check in" thread where people can voice their opinions on the game a few months after release.

Let's get this forum active again.

[Kent814]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

Miami ace Antonio Leon is coming off a season in which he striked out 284 batters (10th highest in history - 1901-2059) and at only 26, he looks to have a bright future ahead of him. He's already has 2x Cy Young's and an MVP to his credit.

*struck out 284

Other than that, I'm really enjoying the game, and I enjoy the struggles of using the Angels which I have in the 2023 offseason. They've inconsistent, but have been pretty good the last 8 years. There's no way Markus and co. can make this game any better, but I know they'll find a way.

[Habsfan18]

Originally Posted by Kent814

*struck out 284

Other than that, I'm really enjoying the game, and I enjoy the struggles of using the Angels which I have in the 2023 offseason. They've inconsistent, but have been pretty good the last 8 years. There's no way Markus and co. can make this game any better, but I know they'll find a way.

1. World Baseball Classic (or at least a customizable world tournament that we can add to our league)

2. Negro League's in historical mode

3. A playable NCAA

4. More love for league associations

Add those and in my opinion, OOTP will be perfect.

[Habsfan18]

Oh, and I know not everyone is a fan, but 3D has greatly improved my in-game experience. Looking forward to seeing how this evolves over the next few versions. Pawns were a great start and using the 3D stadiums in widescreen mode is awesome.

[Andy]

I'm still really enjoying the game, but I've also been struggling staying committed. I've always had a hard time sticking with a league. I have a real 2016 league that I've played some, a fictional MLB and 24 team fictional league that I converted over from 16. I play out every game so I'm not really getting anywhere. I think I'm right around June of the first season in all 3 leagues. I need to stick with one league because I don't have a lot of time to play anymore with a 1 month old little girl now. I recently switched back to the 24 team league and hoping to stick with that since it's a smaller league.

I was one who was not excited at all for 3D and now I can't play any other way. I also love the game recaps as they make my fictional league even more real. In my 24 team fictional league, my New York Empires are in first place in the middle of June, but I don't see it lasting. My offense is really on a roll and has been healthy, but I have 3 starting pitchers on the DL and the callups haven't done much. I play manager only so I have to just deal with whatever the GM gives me.

[David Watts]

I think I'm finally ready to settle in and play now that fielding has been fixed for historical play. Started a historical league in 1901. Simmed ahead to preseason 1906. Erased all history and set up an inaugural draft. Also turned on free agency. I'm not managing a team, just watching. Made it to mid June over the weekend. Bound and determined that this is going to be the year I make it through to modern day. Yeah, I know, I'm probably kidding myself.

If I had to name one thing that makes 17 stand out, it would be the improved 3D stadium pics. I play in broadcast mode and haven't even thought about loading stadium pictures this year.

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

1. World Baseball Classic (or at least a customizable world tournament that we can add to our league)

2. Negro League's in historical mode

3. A playable NCAA

4. More love for league associations

Add those and in my opinion, OOTP will be perfect.

I would LOVE that feature, problem is I think he said a while back there just isn't enough interest in the feature or it's difficult to program. Regardless it would be a tremendous addition seeing as currently adding college/high school feeders is tedious and the programs don't act correctly.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

Let's get this forum active again.

OK, here's something that may do the trick. I have reverted back to OOTPB 16.

Way back in the beginning, I dumped on 17 as being not very exciting for a fictional player. Being the kind-hearted soul that I am, I regretted doing so and then came back with a mea culpa thread. In it, I listed the things that I had found to change my opinion.

Well, my opinion has changed back. Here's how I feel now on these, then I will discuss my reasons for reversion:

• The Upcoming Schedule and my division's Standings in the top window are handy. Not really. They are ungainly, compared to how 16 was laid out as to the schedule and considering I don't have to see the standings all the time, especially if they are shown in my Manager's Office page.
• Focused trade offers now appear based on what you have told everybody you need. This is like getting a welcome (or, maybe not so welcome, based on the offer) telephone call from a buddy GM. Eh, OK, but I can do without this, especially since, on Hard trading setting, you get offered garbage 95% of the time.
• They added an option to always allow the GM control over lineups and pitching staffs even while playing GM-only. I am always going back and forth between representing myself in the game as manager or playing-GM only. When I play GM-only, however, I am annoyed when the manager debars me from setting lineups and pitching assignments. Too often, the CF that I recruited ends up playing 2B because he has a great bat but minimal defense ratings at that position. I want to prevent that. Maybe this option will be useful to me; a blend, so to speak. It wasn't. I am playing GM only now.
• There are View Boxscore and View Game Log links on League News articles (window, not newspaper). Those are new, I think. Again, OK, but the Manager's Office page does the same thing.
• The box score auto-recap is more interesting than I thought it would be. Also, the Game Scores summary screen includes the headline from the box score auto-recap. It's remarkable how quickly I tired of this and the win probability graphs. Same stuff, over and over again. The box scores in 16 are quicker to read and don't require as much scrolling.
• I like the HOF ballot years and induction pct added to retired player lists. Getting the drift? Small things, not adding up enough to offset what I am going to criticize below.
• The Classic skin is very well done this year. I always wanted to use it but somehow the Default skin always was better, until now. This skin is not as good as the 16 Default skin, however.
• There is a new screenshot (F12) feature which I am pretty sure is new with this version. I will be using that a lot because I frequently post pics here. F12 is more handy than the screen capture program that I usually use (Greenshot) which does not work well with OOTPB. There is an Open Folder option right after the screen shot is taken, and the files are named for the league, date, and some other numbers that I have not figured out yet: mlb_1901-04-24_20-52-05. Get Greenshot. Does a better job.
• While not usually a baseball history buff, certainly not enough to merely replay actual seasons, I am contemplating using the new Historical Exhibition option to settle, once and for all, questions such as "Were the 1998 Yankees the best Yankees team of all time?" I figure a mega-series of, say, 21 head-to-head games between the 1927 and 1998 Yankees should be decisive. I meant this when I said it, but I never did it.
• The (up to) 60% faster simulation speed has already come in handy, as I ran off several seasons of a test league in just a few minutes to explore the options of the Almanac feature which I am contemplating using for the first time. Even a fictional player may enjoy perusing through the Almanac once in a while! 1) I keep my universes small these days, so I hardly notice any difference. 2) To me, the Almanac feature is too clonky, unsightly, and bulky to use.
• Instead of tabs, the Field View is a quick drop-down menu selection in Game Options. Yeah, right.
• And I'll be darned if I don't enjoy using the 3D view for the first time, for which there is a great check box to Use Small Labels which makes the field look much cleaner and clearer. Sorry, but 3D view got old, quick.
• Love those munchkin/pawn/pegs moving around, too! And here's something new that lends to immersion in the game: Ball movement, and not just for hits. For example, in 3D view, on a triple, you can see the RF throw the ball into home plate. Before, you saw only the triple, not the defensive response. It's hard to put into words, but seeing the ball come into home plate lends to understanding the play that just occurred. Ho-hum. Not. BASEBALL is the thing!
• These are some other new features of interest to me even though I have not seen or experienced them yet (I just finished my first season in OOTPB 17, year 1901):
  • Improved player names database (based on QuestDog's popular names mod)
  • Added multi-year player opt-outs in contracts
  • Expanded world hint text items
  • Added leverage index to pitching stats, and splits by leverage for players
  • Added leverage options to bullpen roles None of this is very important, really.

So, what bugged me about OOTPB 17?

• First of all, I don't like the layout of the interface, the fonts, the whole deal. When I reloaded OOTP16, with the Default skin, it was like a revelation in realizing how much I missed it. Crisp, clean, laid out better. In the eye of this beholder, of course.
• 16 has the schedule ticker crawling across the top of the screen instead of scrolling down in a small window in 17. This was done to accommodate cramming in the standings which also need to be scrolled and which are jammed up against the right edge of the screen. Every time I looked at it, I did not like it. I actually set custom game window sizes to block it out due to insufficient room.
• LESS options in 16. Cleaner menus. Maybe we are approaching the law of diminishing returns when it comes to choices and settings in this game?
• But here is what really did me in with 17: I am suspicious of this "smarter, more cunning AI" enhancement. How exactly was this done? Because I think, and here could be some debate perhaps, I think some things were done to:

1. Give the AI cheats like being able to see true coach ratings while human players fumble with fuzzy nonsense in evaluating coaches.
2. Penalize human players so that the AI looks "smarter, more cunning" but in reality:
   • Human scouts are dumber than ever.
   • Draft choices go bust much more often than not.
   • Players for human teams seem to suffer performance penalties which are often immediately lifted when they are traded or released and play for AI teams
   • Players do not develop well, even with excellent coaches (obtained by editor subterfuge)
3. And here is the kicker: Number 2 is most often noticeable after human success. Three times, three different leagues, the same thing happened: In the inaugural draft, I select the best SP's available, win in the first few years, then a cloud descends and nothing, but nothing goes right. World Series rings, followed by five straight years of 100-loss seasons? Five straight number one draft choices go bust? Nobody is ready to move up to the ML from any draft round in five years? Like it was choreographed to offset initial success.
4. Meanwhile, I think they also ramped up and now overdo the player unhappiness module so that you end up in a death spiral: Bad seasons = bad moods = bad performances = bad seasons, no matter what leadership you bring in.

There. That's why I have gone back to 16. That version looked better and played better, in my opinion. 17 is going on the shelf, to be kept only as a possible gateway for my league to go to 18. Maybe.

[Art99]

Since the last patch came out I've been playing a lot. I have a deadball league in 1901 that I started before the patch and a 1955 season started after it's release. The game seems to be working very well but for me the real test will be when the 1956 season starts and how minor leagues will work. I play every game out so in a couple weeks will find out.

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

• But here is what really did me in with 17: I am suspicious of this "smarter, more cunning AI" enhancement. How exactly was this done? Because I think, and here could be some debate perhaps, I think some things were done to:

1. Give the AI cheats like being able to see true coach ratings while human players fumble with fuzzy nonsense in evaluating coaches.
2. Penalize human players so that the AI looks "smarter, more cunning" but in reality:
   • Human scouts are dumber than ever.
   • Draft choices go bust much more often than not.
   • Players for human teams seem to suffer performance penalties which are often immediately lifted when they are traded or released and play for AI teams
   • Players do not develop well, even with excellent coaches (obtained by editor subterfuge)
3. And here is the kicker: Number 2 is most often noticeable after human success. Three times, three different leagues, the same thing happened: In the inaugural draft, I select the best SP's available, win in the first few years, then a cloud descends and nothing, but nothing goes right. World Series rings, followed by five straight years of 100-loss seasons? Five straight number one draft choices go bust? Nobody is ready to move up to the ML from any draft round in five years? Like it was choreographed to offset initial success.
4. Meanwhile, I think they also ramped up and now overdo the player unhappiness module so that you end up in a death spiral: Bad seasons = bad moods = bad performances = bad seasons, no matter what leadership you bring in.

If you were a newbie, I'd write this off as a rant from someone who just isn't a very good player. It reads that way. Because these are pretty heavy statements IMO.

But you've obviously been around OOTP for a long time. So I don't know what to make of this. Is this the impression other people have of OOTP 17, too? Because these are 'wreck the franchise' level changes if this is true. And I have a tough time buying it because It goes against everything OOTP has done to date. There have been issues in the past sometimes, but the AI has always played fairly.

It's the type of thing Baseball Mogul would do - your players wouldn't perform as well at harder levels - and look where BB Mogul is now.

I don't own 17 (yet) but I'm curious to see if this is a one-off occurrence. If not then that's a really terrible direction.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

If you were a newbie, I'd write this off as a rant from someone who just isn't a very good player. It reads that way. Because these are pretty heavy statements IMO.

But you've obviously been around OOTP for a long time. So I don't know what to make of this. Is this the impression other people have of OOTP 17, too? Because these are 'wreck the franchise' level changes if this is true. And I have a tough time buying it because It goes against everything OOTP has done to date. There have been issues in the past sometimes, but the AI has always played fairly.

It's the type of thing Baseball Mogul would do - your players wouldn't perform as well at harder levels - and look where BB Mogul is now.

I don't own 17 (yet) but I'm curious to see if this is a one-off occurrence. If not then that's a really terrible direction.

Yes, I have been playing OOTPB a long time, more than 10 years, and this is the first time that I have ever been disappointed with a new version of the game. I have never reverted back to a previous version.

I am no troll, obviously. Part of the reason I put this out there is to see whether there are any other players who have the same impressions as I do of OOTPB 17.

Leave aside the cosmetic stuff and the lack of thrilling new features for a fictional player. That's just fluff, after all; a matter of opinion. It matters to me, though.

No, what I want to see is whether I am right about this "smarter, more cunning AI" business. That is what killed the deal for me.

I mean, come on, World Series to last place in one year? OK. But five years in a row in the basement? No improvement at all? What about the observations I made of draft choices tanking and players blossoming once they leave my team? What about that "death spiral" of bad player morale?

And three leagues in a row with pretty much the same script? That is, the same scenario of initial winning (which I attribute to grabbing SPs in the inaugural draft - seems to work every time), followed by the hammer, as if an "adjustment" was programmed . . . choreographed . . . by the "smarter, more cunning AI"?

I just finished my third season in a new league in OOTPB 16. Sure enough, I took the title in season 2. But, this time, while I struggled a bit in season 3, there was not such a drastic drop-off in results.

Look, I may get pounded here for saying this stuff and I am willing to take my lumps. I love this game and I want to be convinced that either I am full of hooey about an unfair advantage against human players in 17 or perhaps there are other folks out there who can verify my claims?

It's presumptuous to ask, I know, but when the developer says he has made the AI "smarter, more cunning," how exactly was that done? Because the AI can look very "smart and cunning" if the human player is "dumbed down" by unfair handicaps.

[Kent814]

I think they meant smarter more cunning AI by their new GM personality system, but you could be right as well. I enjoy the game though because I have a lower bar than you after spending most of my virtual baseball life playing MLB The Show and MLB 2K, so anything OOTP puts out is infinitely better by comparison.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

[*]Draft choices go bust much more often than not.[*]Players do not develop well, even with excellent coaches (obtained by editor subterfuge)[/LIST]

I don't have the time to respond to your post point by point, I'd need to have a free day or so, which I don't!

That being said, I just wanted to pick on a couple points you made.

Even if both of these points are true, so what? This is exactly like real baseball.

Most prospects become busts, most draft picks, even first rounders do not pan out. You'll have a harder time finding rl teams where say 2 in 5 first round picks turned out great than where 5 straight 1st rounders turned out to be poor. Most prospects do not become MLB players, or anything close.

Why should OOTP be any different, and make things artificially easy for you as a human manager?

As to your main complaints, I don't have specific knowledge as to exactly what Markus did with the AI, but I will just say that he and Matt have always been very clear in discussing their priorities and values and that nothing they've ever said has ever indicated even a remote possibility that they'd cheat to make the ai somehow superhuman, or to artificially curse too good human players.

That's totally opposed to the decisions Markus has made for 17 versions of OOTP. Why would you assume he's abandoned everything he's discussed and implemented over the last 17 years now, just because you struggled a bit in all of three leagues with a new version of the game?

[TuckerDuckson]

Exactly, there is also such a point of where your forced into a rebuild phase it's the natural cycle of baseball. Eventually after doing well for years, your team turns old and you need to drop the overpaid veterans, look at the Yankees, they have some pretty big liabilities on their roster (A-Rod, Texiera, Beltran, Sabathia etc.) Some teams go from first to worst in a season, look at the Marlins after their fire sale.

I think your 5 years of 100 loses may be a hyperbole, I could be wrong but unless you are incompetent you can usually turn things around by going and getting low price assets in free agency, then shipping those assets for bigger assets then rinse and repeat. That's how rebuilding clubs do it, they garner assets, trade for decent level prospects by selling on someone on a hot streak, (I've been able to flip John Danks into a #30 ranked minor league closer before) it's all about asset collection and distribution.

The draft is never certain, I've had 1st overall picks go bankrupt in double A, I've had 35th round hall of famers, in my Detroit Tigers series, only one out of 6 years did I have a prospect from the first round come up to my team, (and he was a backup infielder) but I've always had 4-8th round guys be serviceable starters over 1st round picks, I know having a 1st round pick flame out sucks, but there are other options.

[Bluenoser]

I'm perplexed - I keep reading "Nothing new for Fictional Players".

Would one of you who keep making this claim please be kind enough to tell us what "new things" it is your looking to be added/improved?

That is such a ridiculous claim - really. If the AI is improved, then fictional is improved. If the game engine is improved, then fictional is improved. If the news stories are improved, then fictional is improved, etc etc.

If there's something specific you're looking to be added, then get it in the suggestion forums and get busy hyping it. Obviously not every suggestion makes it in, but Markus is a very good listener and if something gets a lot of attention and "must have" comments, I'm sure he'll look at it.

Otherwise coming to the Forum and saying "Nothing new for Fictional" is nothing more than hot air.

[Sam_15]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

If the AI is improved, then fictional is improved. If the game engine is improved, then fictional is improved. If the news stories are improved, then fictional is improved, etc etc.

Completely agree, I saw that improved sim speed was on the way and happily plopped down my money as a primary fictional player.

And as for the 'draft choices are busts more often than not', that's very accurate to real life baseball. If you have a draft class of 40 players in the MLB and 5 of them become everyday starters you did a pretty damn good job.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I don't have the time to respond to your post point by point, I'd need to have a free day or so, which I don't!

That being said, I just wanted to pick on a couple points you made.

Even if both of these points are true, so what? This is exactly like real baseball.

Most prospects become busts, most draft picks, even first rounders do not pan out. You'll have a harder time finding rl teams where say 2 in 5 first round picks turned out great than where 5 straight 1st rounders turned out to be poor. Most prospects do not become MLB players, or anything close.

Why should OOTP be any different, and make things artificially easy for you as a human manager?

As to your main complaints, I don't have specific knowledge as to exactly what Markus did with the AI, but I will just say that he and Matt have always been very clear in discussing their priorities and values and that nothing they've ever said has ever indicated even a remote possibility that they'd cheat to make the ai somehow superhuman, or to artificially curse too good human players.

That's totally opposed to the decisions Markus has made for 17 versions of OOTP. Why would you assume he's abandoned everything he's discussed and implemented over the last 17 years now, just because you struggled a bit in all of three leagues with a new version of the game?

Thanks, lb.

[GoBucsGo]

If the constant crashes and free agency issues were fixed, I'd call this the greatest version to date.

I tried playing yesterday after about 2 months of not playing, and all my game did was crash over and over again

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by GoBucsGo

If the constant crashes and free agency issues were fixed, I'd call this the greatest version to date.

I tried playing yesterday after about 2 months of not playing, and all my game did was crash over and over again

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Well, that's obviously really bad. Doesn't matter how good the game is if you can't play it! I know Matt's worked on the free agency issues recently, but the game shouldn't be constantly crashing on you at this point.

Basic question, have you reported the crashes and what seems to cause them in the bug report section or, even better, submitted a support ticket?

[GoBucsGo]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Well, that's obviously really bad. Doesn't matter how good the game is if you can't play it!

Basic question, have you reported the crashes and what seems to cause them in the bug report section or, even better, submitted a support ticket?

I haven't reported them yet. It's been happening since day one, I figured patches would correct the problem.

I've gone to autosaving every week at this point lol.

Love the game, but it doesn't seem to like me.

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