How have you been enjoying OOTP 17? How does it rate a few months later?

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Spritze

Try it [by "it", you mean historical minors?] with both development and recalc on.

This raises some questions for me. I thought I understood this feature, but maybe not. Please clarify this for me if you can.

I start a game in year 1 with historical minors. Both the player development engine and recalc are enabled. Player X debuts in the minors, i.e. was imported from the historical minors database.

In year 2, player X was in the minors in real life. Are his year 2 ratings based on recalc of his major league stats, minor league stats, or the development engine?

In year 5, player X was in the majors. Are his year 5 ratings based on recalc of his major league stats or the result of his progression through the development engine for the previous four years?

[Bunktown Ballers]

So, what bugged me about OOTPB 17?

• First of all, I don't like the layout of the interface, the fonts, the whole deal. When I reloaded OOTP16, with the Default skin, it was like a revelation in realizing how much I missed it. Crisp, clean, laid out better. In the eye of this beholder, of course.
• 16 has the schedule ticker crawling across the top of the screen instead of scrolling down in a small window in 17. This was done to accommodate cramming in the standings which also need to be scrolled and which are jammed up against the right edge of the screen. Every time I looked at it, I did not like it. I actually set custom game window sizes to block it out due to insufficient room.
• LESS options in 16. Cleaner menus. Maybe we are approaching the law of diminishing returns when it comes to choices and settings in this game?
• But here is what really did me in with 17: I am suspicious of this "smarter, more cunning AI" enhancement. How exactly was this done? Because I think, and here could be some debate perhaps, I think some things were done to:

1. Give the AI cheats like being able to see true coach ratings while human players fumble with fuzzy nonsense in evaluating coaches.
2. Penalize human players so that the AI looks "smarter, more cunning" but in reality:
   • Human scouts are dumber than ever.
   • Draft choices go bust much more often than not.
   • Players for human teams seem to suffer performance penalties which are often immediately lifted when they are traded or released and play for AI teams
   • Players do not develop well, even with excellent coaches (obtained by editor subterfuge)
3. And here is the kicker: Number 2 is most often noticeable after human success. Three times, three different leagues, the same thing happened: In the inaugural draft, I select the best SP's available, win in the first few years, then a cloud descends and nothing, but nothing goes right. World Series rings, followed by five straight years of 100-loss seasons? Five straight number one draft choices go bust? Nobody is ready to move up to the ML from any draft round in five years? Like it was choreographed to offset initial success.
4. Meanwhile, I think they also ramped up and now overdo the player unhappiness module so that you end up in a death spiral: Bad seasons = bad moods = bad performances = bad seasons, no matter what leadership you bring in.

There. That's why I have gone back to 16. That version looked better and played better, in my opinion. 17 is going on the shelf, to be kept only as a possible gateway for my league to go to 18. Maybe.[/QUOTE]

Another yawner post by DEJA BRU. He post crap like this to stir people up. Browse the forums more and you'll see. Thank for your input BRU...One thing was obvious too in your rant...You said IMO a few times. That it is...Your opinion...keep it

[Bunktown Ballers]

STOP IT WITH ALL THE BS. It's only a dang game. Nobody ever claims it's the real thing, but IMHO...It's the best thing by far....Ask DEJA BRU why he's come back for 10 years? Just stirring the pot is all he does. PO people is all he does. JEEZ

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

Another yawner post by DEJA BRU. He post crap like this to stir people up. Browse the forums more and you'll see. Thank for your input BRU...One thing was obvious too in your rant...You said IMO a few times. That it is...Your opinion...keep it

Well, I do reserve the right to voice my opinion here - it seems to be one of the purposes of this forum (the other big one being dissemination of game knowledge) - so I will continue to offer my opinions from time to time. Try not to be so upset about it.

Basically, I had two purposes in mind: 1) To relieve my stress (I am an OOTPB fanboy and it was somewhat upset that, for the first time, I did not like a new version of OOTPB); and 2) To see if anybody else shared my gameplay concerns (the "smarter, more cunning AI" thing).

I've seen that I am pretty much alone regarding 2) and I could very well be mistaken. I have accepted this. Let's move on now, and thanks.

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I'm not big on morale as currently implemented now either. I usually turn it off in my games.

The thing is, I don't see how a feature or two I don't like is grounds for attacking the direction of the game as a whole.

One of the best parts about OOTP is its multitude of customization options. If you don't like how a feature currently works, just mention that in the bugs thread or wherever, and turn it off!

No one's forcing you to turn on every feature. You can pick and choose the ones you like. That's a virtue of the game, not a deficit. This is not FM, where you're stuck with morale issues even if you don't like them. You can pick and choose what features you want to be active in OOTP and that's a great thing.

Well said. I wish I woulda said it, but wanted the be the one to lament him a bit. It was much worse but I deleted much of it just to not have everyone HOLLERING at me....Love he game for what it is....THE BEST BASEBALL SIM ever....That's all I want...And I got

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

STOP IT WITH ALL THE BS. It's only a dang game. Nobody ever claims it's the real thing, but IMHO...It's the best thing by far....Ask DEJA BRU why he's come back for 10 years? Just stirring the pot is all he does. PO people is all he does. JEEZ

Wow, you really are having a bad day, aren't you? Take it easy.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

Well said. I wish I woulda said it, but wanted the be the one to lament him a bit. It was much worse but I deleted much of it just to not have everyone HOLLERING at me....Love he game for what it is....THE BEST BASEBALL SIM ever ....That's all I want...And I got

On the bolded, we do agree, sir! No arguments there.

[Habsfan18]

Nothing at all wrong with Bru voicing his opinions.

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Well, I do reserve the right to voice my opinion here - it seems to be one of the purposes of this forum (the other big one being dissemination of game knowledge) - so I will continue to offer my opinions from time to time. Try not to be so upset about it.

Basically, I had two purposes in mind: 1) To relieve my stress (I am an OOTPB fanboy and it was somewhat upset that, for the first time, I did not like a new version of OOTPB); and 2) To see if anybody else shared my gameplay concerns (the "smarter, more cunning AI" thing).

I've seen that I am pretty much alone regarding 2) and I could very well be mistaken. I have accepted this. Let's move on now, and thanks.

You not a Fanboy...A Fanboy defends EVERYTHING about something he's a fan about. You thought long and hard what you wanted to post. And that was to nitpick on something you know absolutely nothing about except playing it. Fanboys are the ones that generally say nothing, except to help someone and defend something....I've had the pleasure of having this game a wee bit longer than you....got 80+ post...yeah....I'm a FANBOY

[slic1149]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

STOP IT WITH ALL THE BS. It's only a dang game. Nobody ever claims it's the real thing, but IMHO...It's the best thing by far....Ask DEJA BRU why he's come back for 10 years? Just stirring the pot is all he does. PO people is all he does. JEEZ

One of the reasons why this game is great is because of the community that lets Markus and the team know what they like and don't like. Expressing ones opinion about the game is what helps it grow and evolve.

My experience with 17 has been wonderful, but I play the game now, much the same way I did over a decade ago. For that reason, for the most part, I avoid discussions like these because your mileage will almost assuredly vary from mine.

Bru didn't trash the game he simply stated the issues he had with the changes. That is actually a very healthy thing to do. While OOTP is our game, it is also, in a very personal way, my game too. If I ever have an issue I would bring it to the forum. Close examination and constructive criticism of this game, that turned into my hobby, makes it better not worse.

[Assos]

Calm down guys, we do not need this thread closed. I think the feedback on both sides has been valid and well thought out. I would hate to see this conversation degrade and get closed and vanish from the board.
I can understand the upset-ness but no need to get tongue and cheek about it.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I start a game in year 1 with historical minors. Both the player development engine and recalc are enabled. Player X debuts in the minors, i.e. was imported from the historical minors database.

In year 2, player X was in the minors in real life. Are his year 2 ratings based on recalc of his major league stats, minor league stats, or the development engine? I do not know

In year 5, player X was in the majors. Are his year 5 ratings based on recalc of his major league stats or the result of his progression through the development engine for the previous four years? I do not know

I suspect no one but the game designers know. If recalc is on though I do know that the developed ratings get reset to the yearly recalc ratings. I turned Louis Aparicio into a developed power hitter and upon recalc he flipped back.

[One Post Wonder]

Funny. While viewing this thread yesterday, I had been thinking how improved these forums were. I used to think this place was like Sportstalk radio at 2 am, when all the drunk people would come on and get belligerent about nothing. It's why I never became a regular here.

Disclaimer: I'm pretty sure I've been belligerent myself once or twice.

But now? One person comes on and states a controversial opinion. He words it well, follows it up with respectful replies, and everyone ('fanboys' and 'non-fanboys' alike) sits around and talks it out reasonably instead of flipping their lids. It's mostly been a good vibe. Let's keep it up.

In regards to historical minors, you have to wonder how just much stat-wise they have to work with. I'm sure they've done the best job they could but even MLB stats get a bit sketchy when you go back far enough. People are calling for the Negro Leagues, which would be interesting, but the stats for the Negro Leagues would have to be well-nigh impossible to work with.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

In regards to historical minors, you have to wonder how just much stat-wise they have to work with. I'm sure they've done the best job they could but even MLB stats get a bit sketchy when you go back far enough. People are calling for the Negro Leagues, which would be interesting, but the stats for the Negro Leagues would have to be well-nigh impossible to work with.

There are tons of stats available. Way more than is generally thought.

Probably 90% of what was used was readily available just not always in one place. The other 9% was inferred from actual data with only 1% or so guessed at based on team/league data. Some of the details are light but there is plenty enough to draw solid player ratings from.

The same held true for the Negro/Cuban Leagues of 1887-1945. 1946-1962 is being worked on.There is a lot of player/league/team data if you are willing to draw from multiple sources. Luckily computers are pretty good at consolidating big groups of data.

All hail Queen Processor!

[BigRed75]

Originally Posted by Spritze

All hail Queen Processor!

I, for one, welcome our new silicon overlords.

[curt]

Originally Posted by endgame

One pitch or pitch by pitch?

pitch by pitch

[RchW]

Originally Posted by GoBucsGo

I haven't reported them yet. It's been happening since day one, I figured patches would correct the problem.

I've gone to autosaving every week at this point lol.

Love the game, but it doesn't seem to like me.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

The long term occurrence and no improvement with patches strongly suggests your computer may be the source of the crashes. If crashes were coming from the game exclusively everybody would have them and no reports of fixed crashes would ever be made.

[NotMuchTime]

I haven't enjoyed it at all yet (maybe two hours). I was waiting on patches and I'd look thru the forum from time to time to see where the patches were at. I barely played 16 and, so far, 17 even less. I've played every version since 4 (I think that was the first) and just can't excited about playing it.

Actually, I've played less and less for the last 3 or 4 years. I still see the same issues that don't get resolved. It all boils down to the scouting/player evaluation model. I played stats only for quite a while and that masked a lot of the issues, but it's not how it works.

I still read the forums from to time and still have hope (although I've lost faith).

OOTP is a great game and it's really the only option for baseball simulation.

But.....

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by NotMuchTime

Actually, I've played less and less for the last 3 or 4 years. I still see the same issues that don't get resolved. It all boils down to the scouting/player evaluation model. I played stats only for quite a while and that masked a lot of the issues, but it's not how it works.

What is it specifically you'd like to see changed?

[GoBucsGo]

Originally Posted by RchW

The long term occurrence and no improvement with patches strongly suggests your computer may be the source of the crashes. If crashes were coming from the game exclusively everybody would have them and no reports of fixed crashes would ever be made.

Not sure that's entirely accurate, since I bought a brand new $500 machine recently and it's still happening to me. But I won't get my britches in a bunch about it. It's fine.