Draft issues - HS/College

jberg57 · 08-05-2016, 01:51 PM

Also posted in Bugs...didn't know where was more appropriate.

Draft issue -HS/College

Something I've noticed on the draft is that there are a number of 20-21 year olds that are out of HS. They should be college.

Also, as a former player, I know that HS JUCO and Juniors in college have higher leverage with their situation and could therefore demand more money or stick to their demands in general. College Seniors have very little leverage and if they do not sign find themselves in a real life working man's job. This should be incorporated into the game.

My suggestion is to make HS guys all Hard or higher signability and no older than 18. Create JUCO (junior college) draftees and make College draftees age and grade level a variable. As I said, College seniors are faced with no leverage whereas Redshirt Sophomores and Juniors have the ability to spurn MLB and return to school.

Lastly, Eliminate the IMPOSSIBLE signees. This makes no sense at all. Everyone has their price.

Finally, for realism, create Agents.

BIG17EASY · 08-05-2016, 02:41 PM

All high school players should not be hard or harder to sign. There are many instances of high school players who are drafted and want to play professional baseball. A player from my area was an 11th-round draft pick this year and signed despite having a scholarship to play at Virginia. He's just one example of high school players who prefer to sign rather than go to college and wait three more years.

byzeil · 08-05-2016, 02:55 PM

Agree with BIGEASY.

Also, Impossible players do have a price, most can be signed if you offer them enough. Impossible just indicates that they are all but sold on going to college and you'll have to blow them away to sign them. Maybe they should be listed as 'near impossible' but impossible works.

As for the older players showing as HS: Check to see if they went undrafted/unsigned previously. They may be HS players who weren't drafted and they don't go on to college (especially if you aren't using feeders where some players do go to college).

jberg57 · 08-05-2016, 05:01 PM

I disagree with the notion that HS players are easier to sign. Every situation is different of course, but most HS players, unless they have terrible grades, have the leverage to go to college unless the bonus is high. A lot of the players I know were drafted after the 20th round, went to college and upped their draft position by a dozen or so rounds. The college juniors and RS sophs have the chance to maximize their bonus or go back to school.

Not everyone wants to sign for a 20k bonus or less at 18 years old to play in the Gulf Coast league! - not many parents would allow that either

GoPedro99 · 08-05-2016, 05:02 PM

One idea I LOVE. AGENTS. it would add a whole new aspect to contracts and signings that the game doesn't have

chriskelly · 08-05-2016, 09:01 PM

I can't see HS / College stats. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong.....I have been able to in past versions

BigRed75 · 08-05-2016, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoPedro99

One idea I LOVE. AGENTS. it would add a whole new aspect to contracts and signings that the game doesn't have

Sorry, I dislike. Agents and the press conferences are the two things that ruined Football Manager for me.

We've got a negotiating process already, the agents are there behind the scenes when, for example, you meet a player's asking price and then he comes back asking for more money anyway.

jberg57 · 08-06-2016, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chriskelly

I can't see HS / College stats. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong.....I have been able to in past versions

Same for me. Seemed misleading anyways! had a guy with 175k's and a .50 era and he was a 20/20 and never amounted to anything resembling his stat!

ttaka808 · 08-07-2016, 02:13 AM

Kyle Funkhouser is one example of a college player deciding not to sign because he wanted to continue his education.

ttaka808 · 08-07-2016, 02:18 AM

One way to implement agents could be to create imaginary agents with different classes for each player so the game doesn't need to actually add agents to the game. Instead, they can be a player feature rather than a signable agent. Something like the player personality but for the agent. It would also be cool to have it change in story lines or let you know of a change via message.

injury log · 08-07-2016, 02:50 AM

There are some known issues with the draft pick signability model.

Some of the issues I see mentioned above I think might only be present if you use the real MLB roster set (the 20-21y HS guys, and the missing HS/College stats - if you're seeing that in fictional leagues, then there's a problem).

But there are a lot of improvements to make - 'Impossible' signs should not be called 'Impossible', and they should work differently anyway (but they shouldn't be eliminated - a human GM would sign all their draft picks every time if the draftee's price was always known); draft picks should migrate properly from HS to College (and sometimes to JuCo); HS and JuCo guys should generally be harder to sign, on average, though sometimes should be easy (I think that might actually be true now, but I'd need to check); college seniors should be modeled and should be very easy to sign; the 'new' bonus slotting system should be modeled (I use quotes because it's not really 'new' any more), etc.

I'm on beta, and we talk about this stuff a lot, and it will all definitely be improved at some point, hopefully soon (meaning, hopefully in v18). Time is always in short supply, unfortunately.

injury log · 08-07-2016, 02:51 AM

The player personality ratings determine how the player negotiates contracts, so in that sense, agents are already sort of in the game, they just don't have names. But a high-Greed and low-Loyalty player is the equivalent of a Boras client, for example.

ohiodevil · 08-07-2016, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttaka808

Kyle Funkhouser is one example of a college player deciding not to sign because he wanted to continue his education.

Will Benson is an example of a high school kid who signed because he wanted to play professional baseball and gave up his scholarship to Duke....and signed for less than the slotted amount.

Indians sign first-round pick Will Benson | MLB.com

08-05-2016, 01:51 PM	#1
jberg57 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 111	Draft issues - HS/College Also posted in Bugs...didn't know where was more appropriate. Draft issue -HS/College Something I've noticed on the draft is that there are a number of 20-21 year olds that are out of HS. They should be college. Also, as a former player, I know that HS JUCO and Juniors in college have higher leverage with their situation and could therefore demand more money or stick to their demands in general. College Seniors have very little leverage and if they do not sign find themselves in a real life working man's job. This should be incorporated into the game. My suggestion is to make HS guys all Hard or higher signability and no older than 18. Create JUCO (junior college) draftees and make College draftees age and grade level a variable. As I said, College seniors are faced with no leverage whereas Redshirt Sophomores and Juniors have the ability to spurn MLB and return to school. Lastly, Eliminate the IMPOSSIBLE signees. This makes no sense at all. Everyone has their price. Finally, for realism, create Agents.

08-05-2016, 02:55 PM	#3
byzeil Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NJ, US Posts: 2,006	Agree with BIGEASY. Also, Impossible players do have a price, most can be signed if you offer them enough. Impossible just indicates that they are all but sold on going to college and you'll have to blow them away to sign them. Maybe they should be listed as 'near impossible' but impossible works. As for the older players showing as HS: Check to see if they went undrafted/unsigned previously. They may be HS players who weren't drafted and they don't go on to college (especially if you aren't using feeders where some players do go to college). Last edited by byzeil; 08-05-2016 at 03:01 PM.

08-05-2016, 02:41 PM	#2
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	All high school players should not be hard or harder to sign. There are many instances of high school players who are drafted and want to play professional baseball. A player from my area was an 11th-round draft pick this year and signed despite having a scholarship to play at Virginia. He's just one example of high school players who prefer to sign rather than go to college and wait three more years.

08-05-2016, 05:01 PM	#4
jberg57 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 111	I disagree with the notion that HS players are easier to sign. Every situation is different of course, but most HS players, unless they have terrible grades, have the leverage to go to college unless the bonus is high. A lot of the players I know were drafted after the 20th round, went to college and upped their draft position by a dozen or so rounds. The college juniors and RS sophs have the chance to maximize their bonus or go back to school. Not everyone wants to sign for a 20k bonus or less at 18 years old to play in the Gulf Coast league! - not many parents would allow that either

08-05-2016, 05:02 PM	#5
GoPedro99 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 861	One idea I LOVE. AGENTS. it would add a whole new aspect to contracts and signings that the game doesn't have

08-05-2016, 09:01 PM	#6
chriskelly All Star Reserve Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 753	I can't see HS / College stats. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong.....I have been able to in past versions

08-07-2016, 02:13 AM	#9
ttaka808 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 278	Kyle Funkhouser is one example of a college player deciding not to sign because he wanted to continue his education.

08-07-2016, 02:18 AM	#10
ttaka808 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 278	One way to implement agents could be to create imaginary agents with different classes for each player so the game doesn't need to actually add agents to the game. Instead, they can be a player feature rather than a signable agent. Something like the player personality but for the agent. It would also be cool to have it change in story lines or let you know of a change via message.

08-07-2016, 02:50 AM	#11
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	There are some known issues with the draft pick signability model. Some of the issues I see mentioned above I think might only be present if you use the real MLB roster set (the 20-21y HS guys, and the missing HS/College stats - if you're seeing that in fictional leagues, then there's a problem). But there are a lot of improvements to make - 'Impossible' signs should not be called 'Impossible', and they should work differently anyway (but they shouldn't be eliminated - a human GM would sign all their draft picks every time if the draftee's price was always known); draft picks should migrate properly from HS to College (and sometimes to JuCo); HS and JuCo guys should generally be harder to sign, on average, though sometimes should be easy (I think that might actually be true now, but I'd need to check); college seniors should be modeled and should be very easy to sign; the 'new' bonus slotting system should be modeled (I use quotes because it's not really 'new' any more), etc. I'm on beta, and we talk about this stuff a lot, and it will all definitely be improved at some point, hopefully soon (meaning, hopefully in v18). Time is always in short supply, unfortunately.

08-07-2016, 02:51 AM	#12
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	The player personality ratings determine how the player negotiates contracts, so in that sense, agents are already sort of in the game, they just don't have names. But a high-Greed and low-Loyalty player is the equivalent of a Boras client, for example.