8 man bullpen - Page 2

MizzouRah · 04-07-2018, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

has pitcher/reliever stamina been adjusted in any way?

No all set to defaults.

So far.. using 26 players, 13/13 seems to do the trick quite nicely. I like what I'm seeing thus far.

PSUColonel · 04-07-2018, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

No all set to defaults.

So far.. using 26 players, 13/13 seems to do the trick quite nicely. I like what I'm seeing thus far.

I just can’t do that ...the roster has to be 25 for me

MizzouRah · 04-07-2018, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I just can’t do that ...the roster has to be 25 for me

You could go 25 with 8 men bullpens (or maybe like you do and tell it to have 24 players so the AI makes the choice to use a pitcher or fielder, but again, I'm not sure the AI is adept at choosing what's best for their current situation.. maybe you can shed some light on that?)...imho it's a must to have an 8 man bullpen.. unless you want a ton of position players pitching.

My guess is the AI has been tuned to make use of specialized pitchers more so in this version of the game, but that's just a guess. Couple that with the change in ratings and you have many SP that are just "average" and do not go more than 5 innings, at least from what I've seen. (it's like that in RL too)

I'm just trying to make it more realistic. The way you have it setup, how many position players have pitched in your league?

IRL, 26 position players pitched in 2016 and 35 in 2017 as of September of that season. I had 37 in July.. So maybe it's not that far off, but I want it almost non-existent in my league. Most of those IRL pitched during blowouts but in my MLB league many pitched in close games due to an exhausted bullpen not a blowout. Not to mention that last pitcher many times get abused and left in because they are exhausted and give up 4-8 walks because they can't hit the strikezone, it kills their stats.

It's cool we can makes changes though, this is the first OOTP game I've ever done something like this and for me it's made the game more enjoyable for me, but I can understand many of those who want the RL setting of 25.

After making this change to a 26 man roster (13/13) not one position player has pitched a month later. What my hopes are going forward is to only see a handful next season and those would be only in blowout games vs close extra inning games.

malor · 04-07-2018, 03:56 PM

My league from OOTP16 (2015 MLB start) expanded to 26 man rosters in year 2020. I've been carrying 13/13 division of players most of the time. If my starts are better than average and going deep in games, I will switch to 14/12. If they are weak or I'm going into a 16 game stretch with no rest, I may go 12/14.

As Gm/manager, you do whatever makes sense for your team at that time to win.

I've see the AI adjust it's rosters in the same manner. I think the AI may also be influenced by the actual talent available to fill that extra spot.

ThePretender · 04-07-2018, 06:45 PM

Even with the times through the order penalty, you're doing something wrong if you need more than 7 relievers. Even 6 is usually fine. The issue is that people or possibly ai aren't valuing stamina for relievers.

rjl518 · 04-07-2018, 07:06 PM

last season in my real-time league, I did have 8 men in the bullpen and it worked out rather well.
I still say that MLB has to expand the rosters because of the extreme pitcher usage these days.

MizzouRah · 04-07-2018, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePretender

Even with the times through the order penalty, you're doing something wrong if you need more than 7 relievers. Even 6 is usually fine. The issue is that people or possibly ai aren't valuing stamina for relievers.

It's the latter.

ThePretender · 04-07-2018, 09:10 PM

Yeah I'm sure this specific problem is AI related. My other point was just that a human GM/manager is doing something wrong either with team building or strategy if they need 8 RPs.

MizzouRah · 04-07-2018, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePretender

Yeah I'm sure this specific problem is AI related. My other point was just that a human GM/manager is doing something wrong either with team building or strategy if they need 8 RPs.

Yeah for sure.. I GM and let my manager do the games (for the most part) and I've seen it too many times to stomach anymore. (Matheny even has a lower than average hook for relievers)

backspace4353 · 04-07-2018, 10:45 PM

10 man bullpen in a few years time.

CBLCardinals · 04-07-2018, 11:32 PM

Has anyone tried to bump RP usage in the settings down from "Extreme" to "Very Often"? Not sure if that would make a big impact or not?

itsmb8 · 04-08-2018, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBLCardinals

Has anyone tried to bump RP usage in the settings down from "Extreme" to "Very Often"? Not sure if that would make a big impact or not?

That would only make SPs go longer into games I believe. I think the settings in question would be reliever hook, pitcher stamina, or reliever stamina in the stats totals section.

NoOne · 04-08-2018, 03:14 AM

i'm seeing more use of rp when using comparable stamina/quality pitchers... but, it's a good thng from my perspective. maybe not for the ai-run teams, though.

when you have 5 sp capable of 200ip or more, you barely need ~5 RP at any point in year except an extreme and rare context that will eventually crop up.

i often carried 6rp in pen in ootp18.. i have only superficially played ootp19 so far, but i can see the need for 7rp even under the above context, now.

i wouldn't doubt a step down in reliever usage would make it more like what we've seen in past years.. good idea to test, regardless.

PSUColonel · 04-08-2018, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

You could go 25 with 8 men bullpens (or maybe like you do and tell it to have 24 players so the AI makes the choice to use a pitcher or fielder, but again, I'm not sure the AI is adept at choosing what's best for their current situation.. maybe you can shed some light on that?)...imho it's a must to have an 8 man bullpen.. unless you want a ton of position players pitching.

My guess is the AI has been tuned to make use of specialized pitchers more so in this version of the game, but that's just a guess. Couple that with the change in ratings and you have many SP that are just "average" and do not go more than 5 innings, at least from what I've seen. (it's like that in RL too)

I'm just trying to make it more realistic. The way you have it setup, how many position players have pitched in your league?

IRL, 26 position players pitched in 2016 and 35 in 2017 as of September of that season. I had 37 in July.. So maybe it's not that far off, but I want it almost non-existent in my league. Most of those IRL pitched during blowouts but in my MLB league many pitched in close games due to an exhausted bullpen not a blowout. Not to mention that last pitcher many times get abused and left in because they are exhausted and give up 4-8 walks because they can't hit the strikezone, it kills their stats.

It's cool we can makes changes though, this is the first OOTP game I've ever done something like this and for me it's made the game more enjoyable for me, but I can understand many of those who want the RL setting of 25.

After making this change to a 26 man roster (13/13) not one position player has pitched a month later. What my hopes are going forward is to only see a handful next season and those would be only in blowout games vs close extra inning games.

The problem with the 8 man bullpens are more directed at teams which use the DH.

PSUColonel · 04-08-2018, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePretender

Even with the times through the order penalty, you're doing something wrong if you need more than 7 relievers. Even 6 is usually fine. The issue is that people or possibly ai aren't valuing stamina for relievers.

The issues are related to AI controlled teams.

homerj · 04-08-2018, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

IRL, 26 position players pitched in 2016 and 35 in 2017 as of September of that season. I had 37 in July.. So maybe it's not that far off, but I want it almost non-existent in my league. Most of those IRL pitched during blowouts but in my MLB league many pitched in close games due to an exhausted bullpen not a blowout.

This is one of those things I'd like to see the AI do better at. Real life, there would be a AAA callup of a RP for an exhausted bullpen. A team may sit with an 8 man pen for a couple games because of it. It would be useful for simming longer periods, if we got a notification that would stop the sim on an exhausted bullpen, so we could do the shuffle to call up a rested player. Even better if we could designate players that would be called up and other players to be sent down. Perhaps a checkbox in player strategy 'promote/demote for exhausted bullpen'.

MizzouRah · 04-08-2018, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerj

This is one of those things I'd like to see the AI do better at. Real life, there would be a AAA callup of a RP for an exhausted bullpen. A team may sit with an 8 man pen for a couple games because of it. It would be useful for simming longer periods, if we got a notification that would stop the sim on an exhausted bullpen, so we could do the shuffle to call up a rested player. Even better if we could designate players that would be called up and other players to be sent down. Perhaps a checkbox in player strategy 'promote/demote for exhausted bullpen'.

Not a bad idea... and until the AI can handle this in a reasonable manner, the only "fix" I have to satisfy this issue is to go to a 26 man roster.

The 26 man roster was close to being passed my MLB/MLBPA last year but the MLB also wanted September roster expansion down from 40 to 28 players, so it didn't pass. So, it's not really that much of a stretch.

I actually enjoy the extra RP pitcher I now have to think about when filling out my pitching staff for the season. (it's typically either an aging veteran who's getting a limited chance in mop up duty or a promising youngster who might work his way up the more chances he gets to pitch).

TanzKommandant · 04-08-2018, 01:32 PM

But is the AI intelligent enough to use an 8 man bullpen or will it be like Mike Matheny who carries 8 relievers and never uses the 8th one yet insists year after year that he needs one?

MizzouRah · 04-08-2018, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TanzKommandant

But is the AI intelligent enough to use an 8 man bullpen or will it be like Mike Matheny who carries 8 relievers and never uses the 8th one yet insists year after year that he needs one?

Haha!

So far yes.. even Matheny has been using all of them.

04-07-2018, 07:06 PM	#26
rjl518 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Born in Shea Stadium, lives in LoanDepot Park. Posts: 6,243	last season in my real-time league, I did have 8 men in the bullpen and it worked out rather well. I still say that MLB has to expand the rosters because of the extreme pitcher usage these days. __________________ My Threads: MLB Project 32 by SFGiants58 "Colon looking for his 1st hit of the year and he DRIVES ONE! Deep left field! Back goes Upton! Back near the wall! ITS OUTTA HERE!!! Bartolo has done it!!! THE IMPOSSIBLE HAS HAPPENED!!! This is one of the great moments in the history of baseball! Bartolo Colon has gone deep!" ---Gary Cohen. (May 7, 2016) (Petco Park) NYM 6 @ SD 3

04-07-2018, 03:56 PM	#24
malor Major Leagues Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 303	My league from OOTP16 (2015 MLB start) expanded to 26 man rosters in year 2020. I've been carrying 13/13 division of players most of the time. If my starts are better than average and going deep in games, I will switch to 14/12. If they are weak or I'm going into a 16 game stretch with no rest, I may go 12/14. As Gm/manager, you do whatever makes sense for your team at that time to win. I've see the AI adjust it's rosters in the same manner. I think the AI may also be influenced by the actual talent available to fill that extra spot.

04-07-2018, 06:45 PM	#25
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,331	Even with the times through the order penalty, you're doing something wrong if you need more than 7 relievers. Even 6 is usually fine. The issue is that people or possibly ai aren't valuing stamina for relievers.

04-07-2018, 09:10 PM	#28
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,331	Yeah I'm sure this specific problem is AI related. My other point was just that a human GM/manager is doing something wrong either with team building or strategy if they need 8 RPs.

04-07-2018, 10:45 PM	#30
backspace4353 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 72	10 man bullpen in a few years time.

04-07-2018, 11:32 PM	#31
CBLCardinals OOTP Roster Team Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,937	Has anyone tried to bump RP usage in the settings down from "Extreme" to "Very Often"? Not sure if that would make a big impact or not?

04-08-2018, 03:14 AM	#33
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	i'm seeing more use of rp when using comparable stamina/quality pitchers... but, it's a good thng from my perspective. maybe not for the ai-run teams, though. when you have 5 sp capable of 200ip or more, you barely need ~5 RP at any point in year except an extreme and rare context that will eventually crop up. i often carried 6rp in pen in ootp18.. i have only superficially played ootp19 so far, but i can see the need for 7rp even under the above context, now. i wouldn't doubt a step down in reliever usage would make it more like what we've seen in past years.. good idea to test, regardless.

04-08-2018, 01:32 PM	#38
TanzKommandant Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 76	But is the AI intelligent enough to use an 8 man bullpen or will it be like Mike Matheny who carries 8 relievers and never uses the 8th one yet insists year after year that he needs one?