Stamina increase?

Baseballman2K5 · 05-18-2018, 10:01 PM

In young SP prospects (20 years old, in particular), how often does their stamina rating increase?

I have a SP who is ranked 31st in MLB top prospects but his stamina is 40 on the 20-80 scale. I'm torn if I should deal him or not...he has amazing potential but the low stamina scares me.

I currently could get a lot for him in a trade.

anyways, how often do you see SP stamina increase in young prospects? It doesn't show a "potential" for stamina

Mets52 · 05-19-2018, 12:04 AM

I personally haven't seen it increase

Qeltar · 05-19-2018, 12:12 AM

It's extremely rare from what I have seen. I almost never see stamina go up for anyone, even young pitchers who should see it improve.

I have some marginal stamina guys I was trying to develop hoping it would go up and it doesn't, so don't get your hopes up...

There's no practical way to stretch relievers either other than hacking their stats.

bigd51 · 05-19-2018, 01:20 AM

I've seen slight increases in stamina, but they're vastly rarer than stamina drops, which happen very often.

I've also seen seen guys w/ 35-40 stamina (20/80 scale) throw 170+ innings in a single season and end w/ a 2-3.00 ERA/FIP... so, considering all the variables, it seems to me that stamina is a crap-shoot.

Rain King · 05-19-2018, 02:21 AM

It does not take a very high stamina to be a starter. This guy isn't going to be a workhorse, but Pedro Martinez wasn't a workhorse.

Dyzalot · 05-19-2018, 02:22 AM

I see some stamina increases but it's rarely more than a 10% increase from what they were when drafted. I also think that the stamina for your example is plenty for a starter, especially if they are a groundball pitcher and/or rated "durable" for injury.

Cryomaniac · 05-19-2018, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baseballman2K5

In young SP prospects (20 years old, in particular), how often does their stamina rating increase?

I have a SP who is ranked 31st in MLB top prospects but his stamina is 40 on the 20-80 scale. I'm torn if I should deal him or not...he has amazing potential but the low stamina scares me.

I currently could get a lot for him in a trade.

anyways, how often do you see SP stamina increase in young prospects? It doesn't show a "potential" for stamina

I'd maybe think about trying to convert someone like that to a closer.

Qeltar · 05-19-2018, 09:22 AM

I have a guy right now with I think 45 stamina and he rarely goes beyond 6 innings. Now, part of that is his high stuff and poor control, resulting in a lot of Ks and BBs, but his pitch count never gets above 100. Actually, even my guys with 60+ stamina are rarely allowed to get that high, but my game may have the hook a bit aggressive since my bullpen is excellent.

I once tried to convert a reliever to a starter who had everything he should have needed to succeed -- high stuff, good movement, good control, four good pitches -- except for 35 stamina. He was nearly unhittable as a closer, and mediocre at best as a starter. I appreciated getting more innings out of him by starting but it was a waste of his talents and I had to change him back. Even though IRL this guy was a starter in the minors.

In real baseball it is when the starter gets tired that he starts to get hit, and I'm sure they modeled that here too. With low stamina, that's going to happen in the middle innings, making good outings relatively uncommon and taxing the bullpen.

Pedro Martinez wasn't a workhorse, but in his mid-20s he pitched 190 to 240 innings a year. You aren't going to come anywhere close to that with a 40 stamina starter, unless you pitch him until his arm falls off.

What are this guy's current and potential stuff, movement and control? Pitches?

Baseballman2K5 · 05-19-2018, 12:49 PM

Here is the player in question.

I do not want to move him to closer based on the haul I could get for him in a trade right now. My team is currently 45-45 with postseason expectations.

It's years 2022 and the rebuilding phillies would give me Hoskins and his 53 projected homeruns this season for Soteldo and a small priced OF. I'd much rather trade for a big piece now than end up making Soteldo a closer.

NoOne · 05-19-2018, 12:52 PM

i'd treat these guys a bit softer if necessary. the minors limit pitch counts to an extent already, but make sure they don't consistently throw 'tired' or 'slightly tired.'

stamina doesn't typically increase like others mentioned, but if they can get to 90-100 pitches without getting tired, they 'could' by an mlb sp. anything less should be mil sp only or future ml rp.

at AAA i think the pitch count is ~90-95? so, if they are mlb-sp stamina, you shouldn't have to do anything either way.

you may not be able to affect certain forces that cause stamina changes, but you can avoid any 'wear-n-tear' effects from overuse. i'd wager that helps odds of avoiding stamina drops and preserving as much as you can until the majors.

Qeltar · 05-19-2018, 01:26 PM

"Borderline starter" sums it up -- but only because of the stamina.

I guess it depends on how your game shakes out -- in mine, that guy (if he developed) would be amazing. There are almost no starters who even have 60/50/50, and they trade at a premium. A real 70/60/65 would be an ace in my game. Not sure about yours.

But he may not develop. The 45 max slider is a concern for me... that's surprisingly low for a second pitch. What's his development trend been like?

His past year WHIPs are not impressive either. Obviously players can change but IME the really good pitchers are dominant most years in the minors. This is his second year in AA and he's got an ERA of 5.30 and WHIP of 1.45. K rate is mediocre, walk rate is decent. He could be good but he doesn't scream "amazing" at me.

Honestly if I had this guy and could get a blue-chip for him I'd probably trade him.

You do of course have the option of going into commissioner mode and just changing his stamina. Since the whole stamina mechanism is pretty arbitrary anyway, I don't think it's unreasonable to bump it based on the reasoning that he's young and could learn to stretch himself.

(As an aside, there's the utterly busted morale system again.. he's "angry" that he's not playing in the majors with 45/55/45 stats and a 5.30 ERA at the age of 20. Give me a break.)

drksd4848 · 05-19-2018, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

It does not take a very high stamina to be a starter. This guy isn't going to be a workhorse, but Pedro Martinez wasn't a workhorse.

Mmmm... I remember Pedro was a bit of a work horse early on in his career. He pitched 10 innings in a game once when he was in Montreal. He was no Tom Seaver, but he piled up a lot of innings. It was only after he had some arm trouble in Boston that they kept his innings down and put him on a strict pitch count.

In fact, I remember that managing Pedro was the beginning of these crazy pitch count limits, and the computers getting involved in calculating batting averages per inning, etc. Baseball forgot that pitching is more conditioning and endurance, rather than silly pitch count limits and innings thrown.

Baseballman2K5 · 05-19-2018, 03:02 PM

Well I ended up dealing him with Danny Blair and two other lower level prospects to the rebuilding Phillies for a slugging 29 year old Rhys Hoskins and Brad Hand.

Ultimately his stamina and his slider scared me away. I may have stuck with him if he had a solid core of 3 pitches. He really seems to be on the fence of becoming a SP or RP

Dyzalot · 05-19-2018, 06:47 PM

For me his poor 3rd pitch would scare me as much as his stamina.

05-18-2018, 10:01 PM	#1
Baseballman2K5 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 506	Stamina increase? In young SP prospects (20 years old, in particular), how often does their stamina rating increase? I have a SP who is ranked 31st in MLB top prospects but his stamina is 40 on the 20-80 scale. I'm torn if I should deal him or not...he has amazing potential but the low stamina scares me. I currently could get a lot for him in a trade. anyways, how often do you see SP stamina increase in young prospects? It doesn't show a "potential" for stamina

05-19-2018, 09:22 AM	#8
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	I have a guy right now with I think 45 stamina and he rarely goes beyond 6 innings. Now, part of that is his high stuff and poor control, resulting in a lot of Ks and BBs, but his pitch count never gets above 100. Actually, even my guys with 60+ stamina are rarely allowed to get that high, but my game may have the hook a bit aggressive since my bullpen is excellent. I once tried to convert a reliever to a starter who had everything he should have needed to succeed -- high stuff, good movement, good control, four good pitches -- except for 35 stamina. He was nearly unhittable as a closer, and mediocre at best as a starter. I appreciated getting more innings out of him by starting but it was a waste of his talents and I had to change him back. Even though IRL this guy was a starter in the minors. In real baseball it is when the starter gets tired that he starts to get hit, and I'm sure they modeled that here too. With low stamina, that's going to happen in the middle innings, making good outings relatively uncommon and taxing the bullpen. Pedro Martinez wasn't a workhorse, but in his mid-20s he pitched 190 to 240 innings a year. You aren't going to come anywhere close to that with a 40 stamina starter, unless you pitch him until his arm falls off. What are this guy's current and potential stuff, movement and control? Pitches? Last edited by Qeltar; 05-19-2018 at 09:24 AM.

05-19-2018, 12:49 PM	#9
Baseballman2K5 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 506	Here is the player in question. I do not want to move him to closer based on the haul I could get for him in a trade right now. My team is currently 45-45 with postseason expectations. It's years 2022 and the rebuilding phillies would give me Hoskins and his 53 projected homeruns this season for Soteldo and a small priced OF. I'd much rather trade for a big piece now than end up making Soteldo a closer. Attached Images

05-19-2018, 01:26 PM	#11
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	"Borderline starter" sums it up -- but only because of the stamina. I guess it depends on how your game shakes out -- in mine, that guy (if he developed) would be amazing. There are almost no starters who even have 60/50/50, and they trade at a premium. A real 70/60/65 would be an ace in my game. Not sure about yours. But he may not develop. The 45 max slider is a concern for me... that's surprisingly low for a second pitch. What's his development trend been like? His past year WHIPs are not impressive either. Obviously players can change but IME the really good pitchers are dominant most years in the minors. This is his second year in AA and he's got an ERA of 5.30 and WHIP of 1.45. K rate is mediocre, walk rate is decent. He could be good but he doesn't scream "amazing" at me. Honestly if I had this guy and could get a blue-chip for him I'd probably trade him. You do of course have the option of going into commissioner mode and just changing his stamina. Since the whole stamina mechanism is pretty arbitrary anyway, I don't think it's unreasonable to bump it based on the reasoning that he's young and could learn to stretch himself. (As an aside, there's the utterly busted morale system again.. he's "angry" that he's not playing in the majors with 45/55/45 stats and a 5.30 ERA at the age of 20. Give me a break.) Last edited by Qeltar; 05-19-2018 at 01:28 PM.

05-19-2018, 12:04 AM	#2
Mets52 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 124	I personally haven't seen it increase

05-19-2018, 12:12 AM	#3
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	It's extremely rare from what I have seen. I almost never see stamina go up for anyone, even young pitchers who should see it improve. I have some marginal stamina guys I was trying to develop hoping it would go up and it doesn't, so don't get your hopes up... There's no practical way to stretch relievers either other than hacking their stats.

05-19-2018, 01:20 AM	#4
bigd51 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 277	I've seen slight increases in stamina, but they're vastly rarer than stamina drops, which happen very often. I've also seen seen guys w/ 35-40 stamina (20/80 scale) throw 170+ innings in a single season and end w/ a 2-3.00 ERA/FIP... so, considering all the variables, it seems to me that stamina is a crap-shoot.

05-19-2018, 02:21 AM	#5
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,240	It does not take a very high stamina to be a starter. This guy isn't going to be a workhorse, but Pedro Martinez wasn't a workhorse.

05-19-2018, 02:22 AM	#6
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	I see some stamina increases but it's rarely more than a 10% increase from what they were when drafted. I also think that the stamina for your example is plenty for a starter, especially if they are a groundball pitcher and/or rated "durable" for injury.

05-19-2018, 12:52 PM	#10
NoOne Banned Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,273 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	i'd treat these guys a bit softer if necessary. the minors limit pitch counts to an extent already, but make sure they don't consistently throw 'tired' or 'slightly tired.' stamina doesn't typically increase like others mentioned, but if they can get to 90-100 pitches without getting tired, they 'could' by an mlb sp. anything less should be mil sp only or future ml rp. at AAA i think the pitch count is ~90-95? so, if they are mlb-sp stamina, you shouldn't have to do anything either way. you may not be able to affect certain forces that cause stamina changes, but you can avoid any 'wear-n-tear' effects from overuse. i'd wager that helps odds of avoiding stamina drops and preserving as much as you can until the majors.

05-19-2018, 03:02 PM	#13
Baseballman2K5 All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 506	Well I ended up dealing him with Danny Blair and two other lower level prospects to the rebuilding Phillies for a slugging 29 year old Rhys Hoskins and Brad Hand. Ultimately his stamina and his slider scared me away. I may have stuck with him if he had a solid core of 3 pitches. He really seems to be on the fence of becoming a SP or RP

05-19-2018, 06:47 PM	#14
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	For me his poor 3rd pitch would scare me as much as his stamina.