Neutral stats in OOTP20, and random debut inaugural draft upgrade

[italyprof]

Does anyone know if neutral stats are fixed in the new game version?

Also I have run 2 inaugural drafts in OOTP20. players from 1901 to 2001. First time I drafted an all star team. Second I got Lou Gehrig, Musial,Rod Carew, George Brett, Johnny Bench, Pete Rose.

Since we are used to having players with 4 at bats as regulars, which some of you know I hate, this is better.

Well, mostly. An all time superstar team is not much more fun than one of rejects. Anyone else seeing this change?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by italyprof

Does anyone know if neutral stats are fixed in the new game version?

Also I have run 2 inaugural drafts in OOTP20. players from 1901 to 2001. First time I drafted an all star team. Second I got Lou Gehrig, Musial,Rod Carew, George Brett, Johnny Bench, Pete Rose.

Since we are used to having players with 4 at bats as regulars, which some of you know I hate, this is better.

Well, mostly. An all time superstar team is not much more fun than one of rejects. Anyone else seeing this change?

What do the other teams look like? Are they full of all stars too?

If what you are saying is the norm, I think you just put a huge check in the "do not buy 20" box for me.

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by italyprof

Does anyone know if neutral stats are fixed in the new game version?

Also I have run 2 inaugural drafts in OOTP20. players from 1901 to 2001. First time I drafted an all star team. Second I got Lou Gehrig, Musial,Rod Carew, George Brett, Johnny Bench, Pete Rose.

Since we are used to having players with 4 at bats as regulars, which some of you know I hate, this is better.

Well, mostly. An all time superstar team is not much more fun than one of rejects. Anyone else seeing this change?

Might want to post your question on the OOTP20 board.

For the record, I don't see what you're seeing. But I could try to replicate it, if you tell me exactly what steps to follow.

[David Watts]

[QUOTE=pstrickert;4454781]Might want to post your question on the OOTP20 board.

For the record, I don't see what you're seeing. But I could try to replicate it, if you tell me exactly what steps to follow.[/QUOTE

So are you seeing a change in the talent level/dispersal in random debut leagues? This scares me to death that this has been tampered with. I've always felt it was pretty close to perfect.

[pstrickert]

No, I haven't seen it. But if italyprof tells me what he did, I'll follow his instructions and see if I get similar results.

[italyprof]

Originally Posted by David Watts

What do the other teams look like? Are they full of all stars too?



If what you are saying is the norm, I think you just put a huge check in the "do not buy 20" box for me.

David, this is the beta version, which is why I am raising the issue now, and did so in the new features thread for 20, it may just need tweaking.

But thanks, I don't know why I didn't think to look at the other rosters. The answer is no. They are nothing comparable - good teams, a little better than what we would have expected in OOTP 18 and 19 with their ridiculously inadequate player lists, but nothing like what I got.

Which means the problem is an AI drafting one, an old story, not that the whole population is made up of Hall of Famers all of a sudden. It means I got maybe one-third of the great players available all on one team. So the AI draft engine needs to work better, but the good news is that the general quality of random debut is slightly better for inaugural drafts.

[italyprof]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

No, I haven't seen it. But if italyprof tells me what he did, I'll follow his instructions and see if I get similar results.

pstrickert - I didn't do anything particularly fancy: random debut for a league starting in 1947, all players from between 1901 and 2001.

The pre-existing draft value for AI was off.

WAIT - I only now realized writing this, that I set the values to 20% ratings, 60% current year stats, then 15 and 5 as is the default.

I wonder if that devaluation of ratings in favor of stats might account for why the AI didn't draft such great players (other greats like Mathewson were drafted to be sure)?

I use real stats, 5-year and potential based on remaining peak seasons.

so maybe it is that combination that led to my drafting "luck".

I will try one without tampering with the30% default setting for ratings, see if that changes anything.

[italyprof]

[QUOTE=David Watts;4454872]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Might want to post your question on the OOTP20 board.

For the record, I don't see what you're seeing. But I could try to replicate it, if you tell me exactly what steps to follow.[/QUOTE

So are you seeing a change in the talent level/dispersal in random debut leagues? This scares me to death that this has been tampered with. I've always felt it was pretty close to perfect.

I understand liking having bench players be important, etc. but I have always felt that way too many, sometimes 30-40% of players were not ready for the majors for another 5-10 years, others were in their last season with 4 at bats or 4 innings pitched, and finding a first baseman remotely able to play full time - I am not talking about a good one, just a first baseman - was like finding a needle in a haystack.

So SOME improvement in general quality is most welcome but not if it means all star teams. But I don't think it does here - see my reply to your other question about the other rosters - I think it is 90% an AI drafting problem, with a slight upgrade in the average value of inaugural draft players. Though that may be an illusion caused by my settings or the AI draft issue, and that is why I got such good drafted rosters the first two times.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by italyprof

David, this is the beta version, which is why I am raising the issue now, and did so in the new features thread for 20, it may just need tweaking.

But thanks, I don't know why I didn't think to look at the other rosters. The answer is no. They are nothing comparable - good teams, a little better than what we would have expected in OOTP 18 and 19 with their ridiculously inadequate player lists, but nothing like what I got.

Which means the problem is an AI drafting one, an old story, not that the whole population is made up of Hall of Famers all of a sudden. It means I got maybe one-third of the great players available all on one team. So the AI draft engine needs to work better, but the good news is that the general quality of random debut is slightly better for inaugural drafts.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I was really worried that drastic changes were made.

One other thing, are you seeing strange contact ratings. Saw earlier today where someone said they started a random and Bonds had a super low contact rating and hit like .099 for a season. Can't for the life of me find that post again though.

[italyprof]

Okay, so I clicked on Fantasy Draft to re-draft again - the same Gehrig, Musial league.

I reset it to 30% values, 50% current stats. Pre-defined draft value for AI is OFF.

So the first four players that the AI drafted before it is my Yankees turn were:

Vern Stephens age 28
Jackie Robinson 29
George Stone 29
Joe Garagiola 22

It is my turn to pick and Lou Gehrig 21 years old is staring me in the face. He should not be. He should have picked first, or second.

And AFTER Joe Garagiola ?

Okay, so this time I will draft Cy Young, age 32. Let's see what happens.

Gehrig is picked 12th in round 1.

[italyprof]

But Joe Garagiola's ratings are 80 Overall and 80 Potential. What's up with that? Barry Joe Garagiola Bonds?

[italyprof]

Christy Mathewson, age 27, instead is showing up at 64-64. So something is wrong with the five year ratings, maybe all the ratings.

[pstrickert]

Might be related to this issue:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=300097

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=300083

[italyprof]

I am an idiot - I had ratings based on positions, NOT on all players. I suspect that made a big difference. So 50% of this at least is my bad, some might be a need for tweaking the AI draft enging. Sorry, possible false alarm. David, please don't bail on OOTP 20 on account of my one anecdote. I am re-trying having changed all the settings with a new league. I suspect things will be closer to normal.

[Beirnej1]

David, something like this:
Two examples on this random debut I just loaded up. I had one earlier with the same examples.

Griffey Sr, had a contact rating of 18 and a crazy high power rating. (These are rating 1-100)

[David Watts]

Man, please let me know if this gets fixed.

[Beirnej1]

It doesnt seem to be only Random Debut either.
It's only the beta so hopefully it will get patched up soon

[italyprof]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Might be related to this issue:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=300097

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=300083

It might be related, though I did not import any players. These are only the players that the inaugural draft included as the default.

Hank Aaron, age 20, struck out 39 times in 509 PA. His contact rating is 40, his home run rating is 75/80 though, which is right. Though how you hit homers by missing the ball is unclear.

ps - why did all those great hitters - Aaron, Dimaggio, Yogi, Klu, hit so many homers and still never strike out? Why is no one studying how they hit and teaching it again? Why is everyone today in baseball Adam Dunn or Dave Kingman?

But I digress. So, clearly there is a contact ratings issue.

Keith Hernandez age 20, before is MLB debut admittedly, is a 35 rating for contact. Again, not someone who struck out a ton of times, though much more frequently than Aaron.

Bernie Williams, age 31, struck out 95 times in 700 PA (697 to be precise) and has a 35/40 contact rating.

But is that the basis for the AI not drafting players?

[italyprof]

So these weird contact ratings ARE ONLY the case in random debut.

I ran a 1964 straight up historical league - Willie McCovey is at 50/60. Pete Rose 55/70. Max Alvis 50/50. Willie Horton 45/60. Hank Aaron 70/70.

All is as it should be. So only in random debut are we having this problem with contact ratings.

[italyprof]

Markus wrote that they fixed the problem !! Talk about service. I will check it out and get back to all and sundry later on.