There is way too much complaining about p2w players

[dkgo]

Originally Posted by Badnewsgoonies

You’re not wrong but from what I’ve seen in the auction house it doesn’t seem like that happens often. You’d need to do that deal 50 times to make a mil and I’d be lucky to even do it 10 times over a month. To be fair I’m not a very patient person lol. Your live card auctions is smart tho it crossed my mind but again takes a lot of patience

Well the game has been out nearly 5 months now, so if you could do it 10 times over a month there is your 50 times. I'm definitely not saying it happens all at once.

[QuantaCondor]

Originally Posted by Badnewsgoonies

I mean 960 ev from 1k packs is a lot better then most loot box games though I could be wrong I guess.

960 is almost certainly an overestimation, it's just the highest number I've seen cited here which I used to illustrate the fact that even if you're as optimistic as possible, you still go negative EV. Base pack EV is like 300pp or something from quicksells, probably the correct number is closer to 600-700 PP, but like 80% of that is still skewed by very rare opens.

And if you're savvy like dkgo or others, you can make a ton normally. Lots of top end ftp players have made at least 100k if not more through some sort of AH working, whether that's speculation or arbitrage using sets or whatever.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

We DO NOT have any ill will against players with money.

Maybe you don't, but...

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

You know, every time I read one of these threads that revolves around whales and FTP folk, I'm reminded how on target Bill Veeck was discussing the economics of the game.

...comments like this are all over the forum. In other words, he is saying that people that spend large amounts of money on the game are the least knowledgeable players. That sounds like an insult to me, and why would you insult people unless you harbor some sort of grudge or ill will?

[dkgo]

Originally Posted by QuantaCondor

960 is almost certainly an overestimation, it's just the highest number I've seen cited here which I used to illustrate the fact that even if you're as optimistic as possible, you still go negative EV. Base pack EV is like 300pp or something from quicksells, probably the correct number is closer to 600-700 PP, but like 80% of that is still skewed by very rare opens.

And if you're savvy like dkgo or others, you can make a ton normally. Lots of top end ftp players have made at least 100k if not more through some sort of AH working, whether that's speculation or arbitrage using sets or whatever.

It's about 450 EV from quicksell and my guess is also 600-700 if you auction everything. Just takes a long time to get to that.

Opening packs as a F2P player reminds me of a line from Moneyball about using the top pick on a high school pitcher. "The teams that can least afford to do it have ignored the odds and gone straight to the roulette table"

[Maxfire5]

Originally Posted by Badnewsgoonies

Pretty simple just like the title says I’m very surprised at the amount of posts freaking out about prefect league and being shocked at OP teams. This is a gacha games just like nearly every mobile game or card based sports game. If you don’t want to pay that’s fine but don’t be shocked when others choose otherwise lol. Plus they do fund the game doesn't really exist without them.

Mainly posting this because I was hoping for actual threads comparing players or discussing strategy here not just complaints they can’t win perfect league world seriers. That’s literally the end game it’s not easy to achieve. For the record I think this game does a pretty good job at keeping the gap somewhat close between f2p players and p2w.

I'll be completely honest and say I haven't seen that many posts/threads complaining about P2P. I think it's great they have it and it'll help drive a game I enjoy forward.

I know I've commented on the differences between F2P and P2P but that doesn't mean I'm complaining about it. I personally just don't spend money on games after the purchase of the game in most cases. This is true for other games like FIFA or Madden. However, I also understand that without grinding a crazy amount, I won't compete on the top end of the game with the P2P people. It's not expected. I want to build the best team I can. I also want to be realistic.

I think a number of the F2P commenters I've seen have similar sentiments.

Honestly, more than anything I've witnessed on here is some (not all by any means) P2P players complaining they won 115 games in a season and then lost in the first round of the playoffs to a team with 89 wins or whatever.

[Badnewsgoonies]

Originally Posted by dkgo

It's about 450 EV from quicksell and my guess is also 600-700 if you auction everything. Just takes a long time to get to that.

Opening packs as a F2P player reminds me of a line from Moneyball about using the top pick on a high school pitcher. "The teams that can least afford to do it have ignored the odds and gone straight to the roulette table"

Well I’m obviously not quick seeing cards lol that’s really dumb. I do sell iron cards tho it’s just too much of a hassle even tho some of the non live cards go for a couple of thousand and also they become bronze so you get great value from them. As a side note I wish they added filters to the quick sell such as “only sell live cards” and not non-live. Or even letting you specifically choose not to quick sell certain live cards. Would make life really simple.

And also I wish cards you pulled were atomaticly inactive it’s a pain when you constantly have to deactive cards in fair of new ones.

[HRBaker]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Maybe you don't, but...
...comments like this are all over the forum. In other words, he is saying that people that spend large amounts of money on the game are the least knowledgeable players. That sounds like an insult to me, and why would you insult people unless you harbor some sort of grudge or ill will?

Grudge? maybe. ill Will? certainly not.

It's similar to a high stakes poker game; you bet $100 and your holding a pair of Aces. I'm holding 3 deuces but I'm intimidated by the $100 sitting on the table, so I fold.

I don't hold any ill will against you, but I do wish I was at another table.

[HiDesertAce]

Originally Posted by Badnewsgoonies

Also never said just keep pulling cause eventually you will hit lol (side note it's not like winning the lottery lmao the odds aren't that bad). What I said was the only way a f2p can amass large amounts of PP is to get a huge pull so yeah until you get that your out of luck

"the only way a f2p can amass large amounts of PP is to get a huge pull"


aka


HITTING THE LOTTERY

[Badnewsgoonies]

Originally Posted by HiDesertAce

"the only way a f2p can amass large amounts of PP is to get a huge pull"


aka


HITTING THE LOTTERY

Yeah this is a loot box game lol that’s how they all work I feel like because of the older player base this game has its made you not realize what the game is at its core. It’s literally about luck and managing your resources when you actually get lucky. Again not a lottery the odds aren’t that low. How else is a f2p suppose to get a team full of 50k-500k players? Auction house management has been mentioned which makes sense but again is impossible without a decent amount of player points to start with.you tell me other then pulls hows a new f2p player suppose to get 200k?

[dkgo]

By building it up over time. Abuse achievements and don't try to get promoted as fast as possible. You can rack up some serious offensive stats at the lowest levels. I do think it's a flaw that this is the best strategy but it is what it is.

Dumping points into packs far more often than not will completely kill any ability to improve your team.

Your overall point that the P2P players are the reason the game exists is still true. They subsidize everyone else who plays and I'm glad they do. And if someone has a lot of fun ripping packs then by all means go for it, but your strategy for the "best" way to play F2P is flawed.

[Argonaut]

Originally Posted by dkgo

I have spent no points on packs and just $15 at the start of the game. My best pulls from the free challenge mode packs is one ****ty live diamond and a few golds. All of this is thru being disciplined with points and aggressively working the market. I never overpaid for specific players, I take the best deal where I can find it and flip the player for profit later.

Are you the guy who wins an auction for 20k and then immediately lists the card for 30k? That guy makes me mad!

I still think the best solution for everyone is a Champions League for Perfect Level winners. Whales get an extra thing to shoot for, and maybe to spend money for. And it levels the playing field a bit for the littler guys.

[PocketsAintFull]

I haven't had any lucky pulls, or played the AH much, just built up points and teams over time since the game started.

Equally, I won't win a Perfect League or anything, but then I don't expect to *shrugs*

[Badnewsgoonies]

I want to add that the whole point of loot box game modes is drawing cards lol. That’s literally why they’re fun to actually get something great... I’m not talking about 20 packs. Over time I’ve pulled maybe 2000? I actually got 97 (98?) Hoyt last week who goes for 440k. Felt great he’s a god so don’t want to sell him but with 440k I can get a 100k pitcher with slightly worse stats and a 100k position player. Maybe spend 100k on packs could be nothing but who knows that’s what makes the game fun.

Maybe this is why the auction house isn’t as busy as it should be if a large portion of the players refuse to buy packs and will only buy a card at well below it’s value. It’s just creating a stalemate. A strat that if everyone employed would make the game obsolete...

[dkgo]

Originally Posted by Argonaut

Are you the guy who wins an auction for 20k and then immediately lists the card for 30k? That guy makes me mad!

I still think the best solution for everyone is a Champions League for Perfect Level winners. Whales get an extra thing to shoot for, and maybe to spend money for. And it levels the playing field a bit for the littler guys.

haha, usually I wont put it back immediately. its best to sell after the avg price has gone back up.

definitely agree with the champions league being a positive for the game

[dkgo]

Originally Posted by Badnewsgoonies

I want to add that the whole point of loot box game modes is drawing cards lol. That’s literally why they’re fun to actually get something great... I’m not talking about 20 packs. Over time I’ve pulled maybe 2000? I actually got 97 (98?) Hoyt last week who goes for 440k. Felt great he’s a god so don’t want to sell him but with 440k I can get a 100k pitcher with slightly worse stats and a 100k position player. Maybe spend 100k on packs could be nothing but who knows that’s what makes the game fun.

Maybe this is why the auction house isn’t as busy as it should be if a large portion of the players refuse to buy packs and will only buy a card at well below it’s value. It’s just creating a stalemate. A strat that if everyone employed would make the game obsolete...

that last paragraph is what i have been saying is one of the biggest areas for improvement. giving out more packs in place of some achievements would get things moving.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by dkgo

that last paragraph is what i have been saying is one of the biggest areas for improvement. giving out more packs in place of some achievements would get things moving.

They'll be giving out plenty of packs when tournaments start.

[dkgo]

maybe. we have no idea if it will be enough to make a dent.

[Ty Cobb]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Maybe you don't, but...

...comments like this are all over the forum. In other words, he is saying that people that spend large amounts of money on the game are the least knowledgeable players. That sounds like an insult to me, and why would you insult people unless you harbor some sort of grudge or ill will?

I've been finding that many of the Wallet Warrior Class are newer to the game, and in addition their fat wallet bring an equally thin skin. Then we get the whiny tone of threads like this, which in my opinion serve no purpose but to elevate tensions. I find them tiresome and annoying.

I bear no ill will towards folk who spend gobs of cash...none. Some of them are cool people who I've had very positive interactions with. Some are also possessed of the feeling that spending large amounts somehow equates with knowledge of baseball, and unabashedly advertise themselves as fonts of wisdom. TRIGGER WARNING: They aren't.

My point was not to belittle them en masse, but to point out in a slightly kinder way that anyone can open up a wallet and win, regardless of their intellectual makeup. Those who don't lay out bundles of money are forced to utilize every bit of their wits to succeed. They don't have that fallback option. Money can become a crutch, substituting for hard work and knowledge. That's not always the case, but like many habits it can become a siren song.

You're welcome to debate further with me, Orcin. I've a rustic cabin near Benzonia. We could grill brats and drink beer and talk baseball...because you weren't my target. You actually have good knowledge of the game. Don't take things so personally...it makes one drab and dour, and you seem an interesting person who I'd rather not alienate.

[Mizzery]

Originally Posted by dkgo

By building it up over time. Abuse achievements and don't try to get promoted as fast as possible. You can rack up some serious offensive stats at the lowest levels. I do think it's a flaw that this is the best strategy but it is what it is.

Dumping points into packs far more often than not will completely kill any ability to improve your team.

Your overall point that the P2P players are the reason the game exists is still true. They subsidize everyone else who plays and I'm glad they do. And if someone has a lot of fun ripping packs then by all means go for it, but your strategy for the "best" way to play F2P is flawed.

I deal with statistical probability and data analysis enough at work, I don’t want to overthink the dynamics of optimized game playing during my free time.

I have one of my 3 teams as a pack only FTP team, fully aware of the inefficiency in that model, but I enjoy the discovery process of getting players I never would have even considered via the AH. Getting to Perfect level is relatively easy, so a FTP packs only team significantly ramps up the challenge, even if it never leads to a Perfect League championship.

I also have two theme teams that rely on purchases in the AH for the same reason, and by their very nature, theme teams are highly inefficient since they artificially reduce the available player population.

It is a game after all, and there really is no ultimate metric or standard other than the enjoyment you get out of it, regardless of the approach or strategy taken.

[Nero]

Originally Posted by dkgo

97 alex rodriguez (waiting on 100 wagner to show up)

Just saw him pop up today, seller is looking for 750/1million. Little higher than the 400k it says is the average price for him....