CS started 1951

fredbeene · 12-04-2020, 12:27 PM

Just learned that CS stats started in 1951?
I am learning about players from the twenties and thirties (thanks in large part to perfect as I avoid live)

I wonder how stealing rating are made for players with no CS?
Interestingly sometimes i see CS for players in BR.
But if you look in reallifestats in OOTPB it shows no CS
https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...inkejo01.shtml

I am amazed at how often this guy homers in PT.
I have to imagine he is actually getting inside the park HRs turning triples into homers, but i have no way to prove that.
He hit 14 HRs with his 1906 card (granted it was STL)

I think OOTPB must modify the error rating for older players....which is probably a good thing given they used to use garden gloves....

I am sure i behind the curve in learning about the earlier years ....

thehef · 12-05-2020, 01:28 AM

Both leagues started officially tracking caught stealing in 1920. The AL has kept it up through present day, with the exception of 1927. The NL stopped tracking it from 1926 to 1950. For the AL in 1927 and for the NL from '26-'50, play-by-play logs are (almost?) entirely available, so CS can be obtained from those. Prior to 1920, and even going back before 1900, some newspapers & statisticians tracked them, and some play-by-play logs are available, so the CS data is patchwork.

I can't speak to what OOTP does for obtaining or ballparking/guesstimating the data (where it doesn't exist), but it appears that Retrosheet.org has more CS data than does baseball-reference.com.

Carlton · 12-08-2020, 07:16 PM

The normal SB% you'd want in 20s/30s is MAYBE about 60%

Deadball was about 50% or lower as double steals were a key strategy with 2 speedy guys. If the player stealing 2nd got caught but the leading runner got to 3rd, it made the W% go way up so it was a very productive out

The 20s and 30s stolen bases went down due to 1st HR era but it was still a bad % play as the ball replacement rule due to Chapman's death allowed C's a more tighter ball to throw to 2nd

Garlon · 12-11-2020, 12:19 PM

We have league SB and CS data going all the way to 1890.

12-04-2020, 12:27 PM	#1
fredbeene All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,624	CS started 1951 Just learned that CS stats started in 1951? I am learning about players from the twenties and thirties (thanks in large part to perfect as I avoid live) I wonder how stealing rating are made for players with no CS? Interestingly sometimes i see CS for players in BR. But if you look in reallifestats in OOTPB it shows no CS https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...inkejo01.shtml I am amazed at how often this guy homers in PT. I have to imagine he is actually getting inside the park HRs turning triples into homers, but i have no way to prove that. He hit 14 HRs with his 1906 card (granted it was STL) I think OOTPB must modify the error rating for older players....which is probably a good thing given they used to use garden gloves.... I am sure i behind the curve in learning about the earlier years ....

12-05-2020, 01:28 AM	#2
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,345	Both leagues started officially tracking caught stealing in 1920. The AL has kept it up through present day, with the exception of 1927. The NL stopped tracking it from 1926 to 1950. For the AL in 1927 and for the NL from '26-'50, play-by-play logs are (almost?) entirely available, so CS can be obtained from those. Prior to 1920, and even going back before 1900, some newspapers & statisticians tracked them, and some play-by-play logs are available, so the CS data is patchwork. I can't speak to what OOTP does for obtaining or ballparking/guesstimating the data (where it doesn't exist), but it appears that Retrosheet.org has more CS data than does baseball-reference.com. Last edited by thehef; 12-05-2020 at 01:32 AM.

12-08-2020, 07:16 PM	#3
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	The normal SB% you'd want in 20s/30s is MAYBE about 60% Deadball was about 50% or lower as double steals were a key strategy with 2 speedy guys. If the player stealing 2nd got caught but the leading runner got to 3rd, it made the W% go way up so it was a very productive out The 20s and 30s stolen bases went down due to 1st HR era but it was still a bad % play as the ball replacement rule due to Chapman's death allowed C's a more tighter ball to throw to 2nd Last edited by Carlton; 12-08-2020 at 07:17 PM.

12-11-2020, 12:19 PM	#4
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,256	We have league SB and CS data going all the way to 1890.