Official OOTP 22 initial impressions thread!

[scott1964]

I like the new coaching model They have a personality now.

[rudel.dietrich]

So I have enough time in-game now to give my impressions.
There has been a lot of smoke blown up the developer's asses in this thread, and also a lot of people harping on one small aspect of the game and they blow it out so that the entire game is bad.
This 'review' will come down somewhere in the middle.

I will say that I do feel genuine sympathy for some Mac uses. I am in no way trying to diminish your issues with the game.
It seems the issue can be fixed by updating your OS, but that is no an option for everyone.


Anyways, on to my review.

So where do I stand overall in terms of this release? Probably somewhere in the middle.
I have been here since late OOTP 5. I got that version right before the release of OOTP 6 and have been playing ever since.
I have seen the good and the bad. Thankfully it has been much more good than bad.

This is the best baseball simulation on the market, and IMO the 2nd best sports simulation in the genre behind Football Manager.

However, the baseball simulation market is pretty weak and has been for decades.
Diamond Mind is still around but is an expensive product best at season replay. It has no GM functions and is a replay sim. And that is it.
OOTP can do 90% of what Diamond Mind can do 80% as accurate and has 10000% of the content for a fraction of the price.
Editors note, I completely made up those percentages.

Since about OOTP 18 or so, the franchise has badly stagnated.
That is not the case for everyone, we all want different things out of the game.
And that is one of the reasons OOTP is so hard to develop. It means a lot of things to a wide variety of people.
Some people import a long-running universe and play that all year long. Many others go for an MLB quick start every version. Some others spend dozens of hours creating complex fictional worlds.
Still, others play historical only. And over the last few versions, we have those that play only the newish Perfect Team mode.

So while this review is going to come off as overall negative, I am not blind to how hard it is to develop this series. It is impossible to please everyone's playstyle since the game is so customizable and so complex and there are so many different ways to play.

But overall, the entire series has gotten pretty stale in the last several years. When I play a sports simulation, the #1 thing I look for is 'does it make me feel like I am a real GM/head coach?'
OOTP used to. Back when the entire industry was more basic and more limited.
But time and technology have marched onwards. We have so much more computational power now than back when I began playing version 5/6.
The game in many ways has kept up. But in others, it still feels like what I was playing back when they moved to what I think is still the current engine from OOTP 7.

Finances are perhaps my #1 area I want to see improved, but in OOTP they are still so basic.
Ask any GM no matter the sport what their #1 area of stress is and close to 100% of them will answer finances or money.
Money is truly what fuels professional sports. In OOTP it still feels like an afterthought.
Only two numbers in OOTP really matter. Your current payroll and the max your owner gives you.
Your current on-hand cash, your revenue, and certain other numbers simply do not matter.
Why try and increase revenue when it does not matter? Your owner sets your budget and that is the end of the story,
And there is nothing to spend your money on besides players, some staff and your development budget.
You cannot upgrade your training facilities, we are still very limited in what staff we can hire, you cannot invest in data analytics staff or facilities.
You cannot invest in your team's medical staff or medical equipment.
Trying to cut costs and increase your revenue is quite meaningless.

And we are still very limited on what staff we can hire. Why in 22 versions can I not hire a team doctor? CFO? Medical staff? Data analytics people and staff to work in that area of my team?

So with that general overview out of the way, let us look at version 22.
As usual, there was a long list of features but really only two of them are what I would consider meaningful. You can agree or disagree and that is fine.
But the rest of what is in the game is either tweaks or fixes or at best minor features.

The two main selling points were the expanded coaching system and improved 3-D. Let us look at coaching first.
It is a step in the right direction and much needed, but still pretty lackluster.
We get to hire 1st and 3rd base coaches, coaches now have some chemistry with one another. They have some anomalous effect on player development. And that is about it.
With all the staff I would like to see in the game, it will take until about OOTP 38 before we reach that point
And with coach chemistry, can anyone really understand it? It is pretty opaque as to why certain coaches get along and others do not.
And it is still opaque as to what sort of effect coaching has on player development.

The other big feature is 3-D stadiums and improved graphics when actually watching a game. I will admit this is one impressive feature.
The stadiums and players look good, the animations and ball physics get better and better. Much improvement has been made here.
But this is just one new feature, and it impacts a small group of the people I mentioned above.
I have nothing against 3-D. But for me, it is simply a matter of free time.
I really enjoy the 3-D matches in Football Manager. But in that game, even in the busiest of leagues with cup matches and friendlies, I may top out at 50 matches a year. Usually closer to 40.
In OOTP with the nature of baseball, I would have to watch a minimum of 120 games. Most of my leagues use a schedule that is closer to 140-162 games.
Then add in playoffs.
I simply do not have time to watch that many games with my work life and family obligations.

So while I can appreciate the 3-D upgrades. They do not do anything for my style of play.


So in conclusion, what is my opinion on this release and who is it for?
Overall, I am somewhere in the middle. Out of the box, the game is pretty bug-free for most people. The new stuff (what little there is) works as advertised.
I don't mind paying the release price for this version when I skipped version 21 and got version 19 and 20 for 10 USD in the off-season.

But I do find myself having a growing sense of apathy about this game and this franchise. Is it different than version 18? Sure, but if something happened to where I had to go back and play version 18 (or version 16 or 17 for that matter) could I carry on?
Easily, there is not a single thing I could point to that I could do without.
The core game while still excellent is still much the same.

I think a large part of the issue is that Markus and Andreas simply do not have the same youthful energy anymore.
Markus went from being a relatively new programmer in his early 20s to a successful one and whatever age he is now.
Markus himself told us that Andreas has cashed out and is looking to retire in a few years.
We see this in every field of life and especially in athletics and the arts.
When your no longer young and hungry you become older and burnt out and complacent.
And that is the best way I can describe this series right now.
An aged veteran playing out the last few seasons before retirement.
Still great, can still turn it out a few times a season. But no longer wows you.
Or an older band, you still buy their new music. It's still good. But you get the feeling they ran out of ideas about 3 albums ago. Their live shows are not what they used to be. Still enjoyable, but just not the same flair or energy. They play their new songs but most people just scream out to play the hits.


So who is this version 22 for exactly?
Mostly the die-hards who invest thousands of hours into every new version.
Or those who play out every game or most every game. They will get a lot out of this.
For everyone else, skip this version or wait until a deep discount. IMO, there is just not enough here to justify asking cost.
Personally, I am going to turn into an every third version buyer of the game until I see more improvements that are personally meaningful to me.


And that sums up my feelings on the new game and my thoughts on the entire franchise as a whole.
I hope I did not sound overly critical, I do in fact still enjoy the game.
But I had to get my thoughts down in writing one way or another.

I will also be sharing a much-condensed version of this review on Steam.

[trostol]

so far it is decent enough, but i liked the overall look of last year a bit better. Also i can not figure out how to stop getting like minor league power rankings and historical leaders in my news feed

[Karl Pagel Blues]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

So I have enough time in-game now to give my impressions.
There has been a lot of smoke blown up the developer's asses in this thread, and also a lot of people harping on one small aspect of the game and they blow it out so that the entire game is bad.
This 'review' will come down somewhere in the middle.

I will say that I do feel genuine sympathy for some Mac uses. I am in no way trying to diminish your issues with the game.
It seems the issue can be fixed by updating your OS, but that is no an option for everyone.


Anyways, on to my review.

So where do I stand overall in terms of this release? Probably somewhere in the middle.
I have been here since late OOTP 5. I got that version right before the release of OOTP 6 and have been playing ever since.
I have seen the good and the bad. Thankfully it has been much more good than bad.

This is the best baseball simulation on the market, and IMO the 2nd best sports simulation in the genre behind Football Manager.

However, the baseball simulation is pretty weak and has been for decades.
Diamond Mind is still around but is an expensive product best at season replay. It has no GM functions and is a replay sim. And that is it.
OOTP can do 90% of what Diamond Mind can do 80% as accurate and has 10000% of the content for a fraction of the price.
Editors note, I completely made up those percentages.

Since about OOTP 18 or so, the franchise has badly stagnated.
That is not the case for everyone, we all want different things out of the game.
And that is one of the reasons OOTP is so hard to develop. It means a lot of things to a wide variety of people.
Some people import a long-running universe and play that all year long. Many others go for an MLB quick start every version. Some others spend dozens of hours creating complex fictional worlds.
Still, others play historical only. And over the last few versions, we have those that play only the newish Perfect Team mode.

So while this review is going to come off as overall negative, I am not blind to how hard it is to develop this series. It is impossible to please everyone's playstyle since the game is so customizable and so complex and there are so many different ways to play.

But overall, the entire series has gotten pretty stale in the last several years. When I play a sports simulation, the #1 thing I look for is 'does it make me feel like I am a real GM/head coach?'
OOTP used to. Back when the entire industry was more basic and more limited.
But time and technology have marched onwards. We have so much more computational power now than back when I began playing version 5/6.
The game in many ways has kept up. But in others, it still feels like what I was playing back when they moved to what I think is still the current engine from OOTP 7.

Finances are perhaps my #1 area I want to see improved, but in OOTP they are still so basic.
Ask any GM no matter the sport what their #1 area of stress is and close to 100% of them will answer finances or money.
Money is truly what fuels professional sports. In OOTP it still feels like an afterthought.
Only two numbers in OOTP really matter. Your current payroll and the max your owner gives you.
Your current on-hand cash, your revenue, and certain other numbers simply do not matter.
Why try and increase revenue when it does not matter? Your owner sets your budget and that is the end of the story,
And there is nothing to spend your money on besides players, some staff and your development budget.
You cannot upgrade your training facilities, we are still very limited in what staff we can hire, you cannot invest in data analytics staff or facilities.
You cannot invest in your team's medical staff or medical equipment.
Trying to cut costs and increase your revenue is quite meaningless.

And we are still very limited on what staff we can hire. Why in 22 versions can I not hire a team doctor? CFO? Medical staff? Data analytics people and staff to work in that area of my team?

So with that general overview out of the way, let us look at version 22.
As usual, there was a long list of features but really only two of them are what I would consider meaningful. You can agree or disagree and that is fine.
But the rest of what is in the game is either tweaks or fixes or at best minor features.

The two main selling points were the expanded coaching system and improved 3-D. Let us look at coaching first.
It is a step in the right direction and much needed, but still pretty lackluster.
We get to hire 1st and 3rd base coaches, coaches now have some chemistry with one another. They have some anomalous effect on player development. And that is about it.
With all the staff I would like to see in the game, it will take until about OOTP 38 before we reach that point
And with coach chemistry, can anyone really understand it? It is pretty opaque as to why certain coaches get along and others do not.
And it is still opaque as to what sort of effect coaching has on player development.

The other big feature is 3-D stadiums and improved graphics when actually watching a game. I will admit this is one impressive feature.
The stadiums and players look good, the animations and ball physics get better and better. Much improvement has been made here.
But this is just one new feature, and it impacts a small group of the people I mentioned above.
I have nothing against 3-D. But for me it is simply a matter of free time.
I really enjoy the 3-D matches in Football Manager. But in that game, even in the busiest of leagues with cup matches and friendlies, I may top out at 50 matches a year. Usually closer to 40.
In OOTP with the nature of baseball, I would have to watch at minimum 120 games. Most of my leagues use a schedule that is closer to 140-162 games.
Then add in playoffs.
I simply not have time to watch that many games with my work life and family obligations.

So while I can appreciate the 3-D upgrades. They no not do anything for my style of play.


So in conclusion, what is my opinion on this release and who is it for?
Overall, I am somewhere in the middle. Out of the box, the game is pretty bug-free for most people. The new stuff (what little there is) works as advertised.
I don't mind paying the release price for this version when I skipped version 21 and got version 19 and 20 for $10 USD in the off-season.

But I do find myself having a growing sense of apathy about this game and this franchise. Is it different than version 18? Sure, but if something happened to where I had to go back and play version 18 (or version 16 or 17 for that matter) could I carry on?
Easily, there is not a single thing I could point to that I could do without.
The core game while still excellent is still much the same.

I think a large part of the issue is that Markus and Andreas simply do not have the same youthful energy anymore.
Markus went to being a relatively new programmer in his early 20s to a successful one and whatever age he is now.
Markus himself told us that Andreas has cashed out and is looking to retire a few years.
We see this in every field of life and especially in athletics and the arts.
When your no longer young and hungry you become older and burnt out and complacent.
And that is the best way I can describe this series right now.
An aged veteran playing out the last few seasons before retirement.
Still great, can still turn it out a few times a season. But no longer wows you.
Or an older band, you still buy their new music. It's still good. But you get the feeling they ran out of ideas about 3 albums ago. Their live shows are not what they used to be. Still enjoyable, but just not the same flair or energy. They play their new songs but most people just scream out to play the hits.


So who is this version 22 for exactly?
Mostly the die-hards who invest thousands of hours into every new version.
Or those who play out every game or most every game. They will get a lot out of this.
For everyone else, skip this version or wait until a deep discount. IMO, there is just not enough here to justify asking cost.
Personally, I am going to turn into an every third version buyer of the game until I see more improvements that are personally meaningful to me.


And that sums up my feelings on the new game and my the franchise as a whole.
I hope I did not sound overly critical, I do in fact still enjoy the game.
But I had to get my thoughts down in writing one way or another.

I will also be sharing a much condensed version of this review on Steam.

Thank you, RD. I agree.

[Tiger Fan]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Or an older band, you still buy their new music. It's still good. But you get the feeling they ran out of ideas about 3 albums ago. Their live shows are not what they used to be. Still enjoyable, but just not the same flair or energy. They play their new songs but most people just scream out to play the hits.

RD. I won't requote your entire comments but very well written and they very closely sum up my thinking as well. The quote above sums it up perfectly. I have been around since OOTP2 and except for a couple year break when I got real busy with work, I have played each version for hours and hours.

That will continue with 22 but, like you, for the past few versions the game has left me thinking how much better it could have been for me. And those last two words are the key "For Me." I have no interest in perfect team, I have very little interest in fancy 3-d graphics but I realize many do. I want a challenging GM sim experience in solo play and online and while OOTP continues to deliver that, it just does not feel all that much different than it did 2,3 even 4 versions ago.

I get I am likely in the minority but it disappoints me greatly that so many of the features I use - Associations, feeder leagues, historical minor leagues pre-1920 and pre-1901 major leagues to name a few - continue to feel half finished and now seem to be forgotten about entirely.

Do I still enjoy the game? Of Course! It is still the best sports sim I have ever played but it seems to be moving further and further away from the type of game I enjoy every year. Maybe it is me getting old and OOTP is evolving with it's target audience, but I feel like I am no longer part of that target audience.

[smiller]

You're not alone. I feel the same way. The GM experience seems very much neglected with none of the decision-making experience you get in
Football Manager. But then, that's an area that probably doesn't appeal to enough purchasers, as say, 3-D stadiums do. I haven't decided whether to buy this edition, but if I do it probably won't be for months when the price is greatly reduced and I need to export my current game so that I can do the same if I buy version 23.

[Shake Appeal]

I agree with RD's post too—though I'd stress I still love playing the game and will continue to buy it every year.

My enthusiasm is just drained a little by where the developers' priorities seem to be (3D modeling, Perfect Team) and the relative stagnancy of the stuff I buy the game for: cavernously deep simulation of modern baseball.

The game feels a little bit too much like a random number generator. It doesn't give you enough information (deep statistical data, ways to slice and dice that data and "beat" the AI through statistical insight), much of the information that's there isn't actionable because of the way the simulation actually works (exit velocity is a surface stat you can't draw comparisons or conclusions from), and you don't have enough "levers" to pull to influence what happens in your gameworld.

RD mentioned the financial side, infrastructure and coaching investments, data analytics investments, and I agree with all that. Another example here: the complexity and nuance and expense of international scouting is reduced to a very rote set of interactions once a year.

The game also doesn't let you do enough to influence player development, convert players to new roles or positions, tweak their pitch mixes, have them work on a particular aspect of their game, etc. One of the things that kept me coming back to Football Manager (which has also stagnated) was guiding youth players through the system. In OOTP, I can do very little to "own" the success of a prospect or draft pick.

If you're playing GM only, as I do 90% of the time, you don't have enough say over what your managers and players do or how. You're their boss, but they can flatly decide to play the wrong way, and there's no negotiation involved; you can't argue or compromise with them. The game just has a set of sliders with some hard limits, and forcing player roles or lineup spots—or managing young pitchers' innings—is clunky. With 162+ games a year, it's strange that the middle ground between "micromanage literally everything" and "click continue and see where the dice land" isn't well-defined.

Trades still feel extremely game-y, with endless tweaking to find the perfect deal the robots will accept rather than fluid, back-and-forth negotiations with a halfway competent AI peer. Ditto contracts. This year saw some improvements in coaching and personnel, which was nice.

I love OOTP, always will, but I'm not in love with it right now.

Honestly, the thing that most excited me in this version was the windows on the rosters screen respecting your sort preference and scrollbar position properly for the first time ever. (The game still doesn't remember your scrollbar position on scouting reports, though!)

[smiller]

I'd like to see the ability for GMs and managers to engage in some kind of dialogue for some decisions as to who should be playing and where. Sometimes, as a GM, you trade to improve a certain position only for the manager to ignore your acquisition in favor of the incumbent. Another area that could be improved is the issue of morale and how it affects a team. In Football Manager it can have devastating effects and force you into making difficult decisions as to who plays, etc.

[UltimateAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

So I have enough time in-game now to give my impressions.
There has been a lot of smoke blown up the developer's asses in this thread, and also a lot of people harping on one small aspect of the game and they blow it out so that the entire game is bad.
This 'review' will come down somewhere in the middle.

I will say that I do feel genuine sympathy for some Mac uses. I am in no way trying to diminish your issues with the game.
It seems the issue can be fixed by updating your OS, but that is no an option for everyone.


Anyways, on to my review.

So where do I stand overall in terms of this release? Probably somewhere in the middle.
I have been here since late OOTP 5. I got that version right before the release of OOTP 6 and have been playing ever since.
I have seen the good and the bad. Thankfully it has been much more good than bad.

This is the best baseball simulation on the market, and IMO the 2nd best sports simulation in the genre behind Football Manager.

However, the baseball simulation market is pretty weak and has been for decades.
Diamond Mind is still around but is an expensive product best at season replay. It has no GM functions and is a replay sim. And that is it.
OOTP can do 90% of what Diamond Mind can do 80% as accurate and has 10000% of the content for a fraction of the price.
Editors note, I completely made up those percentages.

Since about OOTP 18 or so, the franchise has badly stagnated.
That is not the case for everyone, we all want different things out of the game.
And that is one of the reasons OOTP is so hard to develop. It means a lot of things to a wide variety of people.
Some people import a long-running universe and play that all year long. Many others go for an MLB quick start every version. Some others spend dozens of hours creating complex fictional worlds.
Still, others play historical only. And over the last few versions, we have those that play only the newish Perfect Team mode.

So while this review is going to come off as overall negative, I am not blind to how hard it is to develop this series. It is impossible to please everyone's playstyle since the game is so customizable and so complex and there are so many different ways to play.

But overall, the entire series has gotten pretty stale in the last several years. When I play a sports simulation, the #1 thing I look for is 'does it make me feel like I am a real GM/head coach?'
OOTP used to. Back when the entire industry was more basic and more limited.
But time and technology have marched onwards. We have so much more computational power now than back when I began playing version 5/6.
The game in many ways has kept up. But in others, it still feels like what I was playing back when they moved to what I think is still the current engine from OOTP 7.

Finances are perhaps my #1 area I want to see improved, but in OOTP they are still so basic.
Ask any GM no matter the sport what their #1 area of stress is and close to 100% of them will answer finances or money.
Money is truly what fuels professional sports. In OOTP it still feels like an afterthought.
Only two numbers in OOTP really matter. Your current payroll and the max your owner gives you.
Your current on-hand cash, your revenue, and certain other numbers simply do not matter.
Why try and increase revenue when it does not matter? Your owner sets your budget and that is the end of the story,
And there is nothing to spend your money on besides players, some staff and your development budget.
You cannot upgrade your training facilities, we are still very limited in what staff we can hire, you cannot invest in data analytics staff or facilities.
You cannot invest in your team's medical staff or medical equipment.
Trying to cut costs and increase your revenue is quite meaningless.

And we are still very limited on what staff we can hire. Why in 22 versions can I not hire a team doctor? CFO? Medical staff? Data analytics people and staff to work in that area of my team?

So with that general overview out of the way, let us look at version 22.
As usual, there was a long list of features but really only two of them are what I would consider meaningful. You can agree or disagree and that is fine.
But the rest of what is in the game is either tweaks or fixes or at best minor features.

The two main selling points were the expanded coaching system and improved 3-D. Let us look at coaching first.
It is a step in the right direction and much needed, but still pretty lackluster.
We get to hire 1st and 3rd base coaches, coaches now have some chemistry with one another. They have some anomalous effect on player development. And that is about it.
With all the staff I would like to see in the game, it will take until about OOTP 38 before we reach that point
And with coach chemistry, can anyone really understand it? It is pretty opaque as to why certain coaches get along and others do not.
And it is still opaque as to what sort of effect coaching has on player development.

The other big feature is 3-D stadiums and improved graphics when actually watching a game. I will admit this is one impressive feature.
The stadiums and players look good, the animations and ball physics get better and better. Much improvement has been made here.
But this is just one new feature, and it impacts a small group of the people I mentioned above.
I have nothing against 3-D. But for me, it is simply a matter of free time.
I really enjoy the 3-D matches in Football Manager. But in that game, even in the busiest of leagues with cup matches and friendlies, I may top out at 50 matches a year. Usually closer to 40.
In OOTP with the nature of baseball, I would have to watch a minimum of 120 games. Most of my leagues use a schedule that is closer to 140-162 games.
Then add in playoffs.
I simply do not have time to watch that many games with my work life and family obligations.

So while I can appreciate the 3-D upgrades. They do not do anything for my style of play.


So in conclusion, what is my opinion on this release and who is it for?
Overall, I am somewhere in the middle. Out of the box, the game is pretty bug-free for most people. The new stuff (what little there is) works as advertised.
I don't mind paying the release price for this version when I skipped version 21 and got version 19 and 20 for 10 USD in the off-season.

But I do find myself having a growing sense of apathy about this game and this franchise. Is it different than version 18? Sure, but if something happened to where I had to go back and play version 18 (or version 16 or 17 for that matter) could I carry on?
Easily, there is not a single thing I could point to that I could do without.
The core game while still excellent is still much the same.

I think a large part of the issue is that Markus and Andreas simply do not have the same youthful energy anymore.
Markus went from being a relatively new programmer in his early 20s to a successful one and whatever age he is now.
Markus himself told us that Andreas has cashed out and is looking to retire a few years.
We see this in every field of life and especially in athletics and the arts.
When your no longer young and hungry you become older and burnt out and complacent.
And that is the best way I can describe this series right now.
An aged veteran playing out the last few seasons before retirement.
Still great, can still turn it out a few times a season. But no longer wows you.
Or an older band, you still buy their new music. It's still good. But you get the feeling they ran out of ideas about 3 albums ago. Their live shows are not what they used to be. Still enjoyable, but just not the same flair or energy. They play their new songs but most people just scream out to play the hits.


So who is this version 22 for exactly?
Mostly the die-hards who invest thousands of hours into every new version.
Or those who play out every game or most every game. They will get a lot out of this.
For everyone else, skip this version or wait until a deep discount. IMO, there is just not enough here to justify asking cost.
Personally, I am going to turn into an every third version buyer of the game until I see more improvements that are personally meaningful to me.


And that sums up my feelings on the new game and my the entire franchise as a whole.
I hope I did not sound overly critical, I do in fact still enjoy the game.
But I had to get my thoughts down in writing one way or another.

I will also be sharing a much-condensed version of this review on Steam.

Very well done review. Honest and critical without sounding like a 16 year old pouty child.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Antonin]

RD made a number of great points and I agree with just about everything he said.

I've wondered each year just what each new version brings to the table and why people should buy it. I think that they have just about done all they can do with a text-based baseball management sim. The current version is not perfect. I have not spent much time playing, but I don't see any game breakers so far.

For years I played mostly OOTP14. I liked the look, and it did everything I wanted a text-based baseball management sim to do. I'm not a baseball expert, just a life-long fan and the things I care about are realistic statistics, realistic injuries, realistic pitcher stamina, the ability to make trades and the ability to make substitutions in-game. Oh, and the ability to customize everything makes OOTP near-perfect. I love the fact that we have many more exotic stats than back in the OOTP5 days, but I still make my lineup decisions based mainly on OBP.

I bought version 18 and 20, but did not play them very much. Someone said I was missing out on a lot by sticking with OOTP14, so I preordered version 22 and moved most of my leagues to it. I mostly play fictional. So far I enjoy the experience.

I have no interest in 3D or Perfect Team, but it's great that other people have those options to enjoy.

But how much further can the company go? For my money, OOTP is the best text-based sports management sim there is. And that includes Football Manager, which I was playing back when it was called Championship Manager 01/02 and still play today in the form of what they call Football Manager 2020 Touch. To me there is no comparison.

I thought it would be great if the OOTP company applied its game development expertise to other sports, but the American football experiment didn't work out. Where can they go now?

I love the company and its products, but nobody has money to spend every year just to support a company. There has to be a product intriguing enough to justify the expenditure. As much as I am enjoying OOTP22, if it disappeared tomorrow I could easily go back to OOTP14.

[trostol]

Originally Posted by Antonin

RD made a number of great points and I agree with just about everything he said.

I've wondered each year just what each new version brings to the table and why people should buy it. I think that they have just about done all they can do with a text-based baseball management sim. The current version is not perfect. I have not spent much time playing, but I don't see any game breakers so far.

For years I played mostly OOTP14. I liked the look, and it did everything I wanted a text-based baseball management sim to do. I'm not a baseball expert, just a life-long fan and the things I care about are realistic statistics, realistic injuries, realistic pitcher stamina, the ability to make trades and the ability to make substitutions in-game. Oh, and the ability to customize everything makes OOTP near-perfect. I love the fact that we have many more exotic stats than back in the OOTP5 days, but I still make my lineup decisions based mainly on OBP.

I bought version 18 and 20, but did not play them very much. Someone said I was missing out on a lot by sticking with OOTP14, so I preordered version 22 and moved most of my leagues to it. I mostly play fictional. So far I enjoy the experience.

I have no interest in 3D or Perfect Team, but it's great that other people have those options to enjoy.

But how much further can the company go? For my money, OOTP is the best text-based sports management sim there is. And that includes Football Manager, which I was playing back when it was called Championship Manager 01/02 and still play today in the form of what they call Football Manager 2020 Touch. To me there is no comparison.

I thought it would be great if the OOTP company applied its game development expertise to other sports, but the American football experiment didn't work out. Where can they go now?

I love the company and its products, but nobody has money to spend every year just to support a company. There has to be a product intriguing enough to justify the expenditure. As much as I am enjoying OOTP22, if it disappeared tomorrow I could easily go back to OOTP14.

well said..know what would be interesting and i think they could improve on...bring back Inside the Park

[md40022]

My initial impressions are very "blah."

I will say, I do not have any interest in Perfect Team. So maybe that's a wonderful thing that I'm just unaware of. I play strictly in GM mode and it's essentially the same exact game as it has been for some time now. The 3d animations are fine, but if we were after cool graphics we'd be looking for MLB The Show instead. Graphics are not a selling point for OOTP. At least, they shouldn't be.

One thing that I do question is how much updated research and development they've put into player ratings and attributes. Example, Addison Russell has pretty much been outed as a terrible human being over the last year or two, but his scouting report on OOTP22 speaks positively of him as a person (I don't recall the exact wording, but a real good team guy..... and serial domestic abuser?) So, have those type of things not been updated in the last several years or what?

The thing is, I don't know what improvements are out there to be made in the mode that I play. OOTP remains the best product on the market for what I enjoy and I truthfully don't know what features I would even like to see added, but this game overall seems like a recycled version of the past several years. Rosters are updated, but so what. Considering we all will be trading, releasing and manipulating those rosters instantly, does them being updated even matter? Haha.

I guess what I would say is if you're new to OOTP than OOTP22 will be an A+, because it's like nothing you've ever seen before and it remains the best product on the market. Butttt, if you've been an OOTP user for years than OOTP22 is maybe a "C" because it's the same thing as every other year.

The price is cheap enough where I don't mind buying the new one from year to year, but it's no longer something that I am looking forward to months before release. My expectations have significantly reduced over the last year or two. .

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by md40022

M
One thing that I do question is how much updated research and development they've put into player ratings and attributes. Example, Addison Russell has pretty much been outed as a terrible human being over the last year or two, but his scouting report on OOTP22 speaks positively of him as a person (I don't recall the exact wording, but a real good team guy..... and serial domestic abuser?) So, have those type of things not been updated in the last several years or what?

We've mentioned this a few times in the past, but it bears repeating that the personality trait ratings in-game are 99%+ random. There are a few players we adjust these for manually but this is almost always only for players known specifically for certain positive on-field traits.

[Harry Hibbs]

I'm frankly surprised to see the generally lackluster responses in these later posts. People complaining that the franchise is not evolving, not giving them what they want, etc. etc. I'm sure this must be disheartening to the OOTP dev team, although they've probably grown thick skins over the years. I for one am very grateful they've stuck with it. I think 22 is now very much on par, quality-wise, with the legendary FM series.

From my perspective, this is the best release of any I've played, dating back to OOTP3. The 3D is vastly improved over even last year's release and the new stadiums look great. Yes I'm in the 'plays out every game' camp as opposed to simulating entire baseball world histories in weeks or months, so my universes move slowly. That's the way I like it. But even if you're more into a rapid paced management sim experience, you'll be hard pressed to find anything with this depth and breadth I suspect.

I used to find myself worrying about how close to real life my current OOTP universe was. Now I let it develop and grow into its own thing, and I find it to be utterly compelling, believable and totally engrossing. Thank you dev team, for the best product release to date!

[MikeS21]

Originally Posted by Harry Hibbs

I'm frankly surprised to see the generally lackluster responses in these later posts. People complaining that the franchise is not evolving, not giving them what they want, etc. etc. I'm sure this must be disheartening to the OOTP dev team, although they've probably grown thick skins over the years. I for one am very grateful they've stuck with it. I think 22 is now very much on par, quality-wise, with the legendary FM series.

From my perspective, this is the best release of any I've played, dating back to OOTP3. The 3D is vastly improved over even last year's release and the new stadiums look great. Yes I'm in the 'plays out every game' camp as opposed to simulating entire baseball world histories in weeks or months, so my universes move slowly. That's the way I like it. But even if you're more into a rapid paced management sim experience, you'll be hard pressed to find anything with this depth and breadth I suspect.

I used to find myself worrying about how close to real life my current OOTP universe was. Now I let it develop and grow into its own thing, and I find it to be utterly compelling, believable and totally engrossing. Thank you dev team, for the best product release to date!

I agree about the disheartening comments about the development team. There is absolutely no way to write code that gives everyone exactly what they want. It simply can’t be done. Especially when it comes to trying to mimic real life. How can the dev team account for every single contingency that might possibly pop up in some one’s imagination?

I have been purchasing this game for well over ten versions. Every year, there is something new, something to build on for the next version. When I buy each version, I understand that it is not going to be 100% able to mimic real life. Folks have complained about the trading AI for years. I always cranked up the difficulty bar and it seemed to be fine for me. This version makes even the easiest setting difficult. But the truth remains that in real life, GM’s make trades that leaves me scratching my head at giving away talent for junk return (try following the Reds for about ten minutes).

There will always be parts of this game that won’t appeal to me. I don’t play online, nor do I compete against online players in any game ... ever! But I don’t begrudge those who do, and I am glad the game is evolving in many different directions. I happen to enjoy the 3D and playing out games from time to time.

My main complaint about this version is not really the game’s fault, but the wholesale changes in baseball altogether - minor league baseball contraction, three hitter rules for relievers, etc. Markus and the other development team members have done an amazing job keeping up with the changes and giving us options to use or not use the many changes that baseball is bringing to the table.

I think we might do well to remember that it’s just a game, and despite the improvements every version, there will always be some situations arise that no developer will ever be able to foresee.

[PocketsAintFull]

I think the small changes add up to a much smoother experience overall. I particularly love the Draft Regions feature, for fictional games it's a fantastic option to have.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

We've mentioned this a few times in the past, but it bears repeating that the personality trait ratings in-game are 99%+ random. There are a few players we adjust these for manually but this is almost always only for players known specifically for certain positive on-field traits.

I imagine that, in addition to maligning fanbases for little reason ("how dare you say that Mitch Haniger is a clubhouse cancer! I'm never buying another edition of OOTP again!"), you run into the risk of libelling players if you aren't clear that they *aren't* almost entirely random. It's a little similar, I'm sure, to the rationale behind the MLB Quickstart having a relatively low number of Fragile or Wrecked players.

[jrgst3]

Originally Posted by Antonin

RD made a number of great points and I agree with just about everything he said.

I've wondered each year just what each new version brings to the table and why people should buy it. I think that they have just about done all they can do with a text-based baseball management sim. The current version is not perfect. I have not spent much time playing, but I don't see any game breakers so far.

For years I played mostly OOTP14. I liked the look, and it did everything I wanted a text-based baseball management sim to do. I'm not a baseball expert, just a life-long fan and the things I care about are realistic statistics, realistic injuries, realistic pitcher stamina, the ability to make trades and the ability to make substitutions in-game. Oh, and the ability to customize everything makes OOTP near-perfect. I love the fact that we have many more exotic stats than back in the OOTP5 days, but I still make my lineup decisions based mainly on OBP.

I bought version 18 and 20, but did not play them very much. Someone said I was missing out on a lot by sticking with OOTP14, so I preordered version 22 and moved most of my leagues to it. I mostly play fictional. So far I enjoy the experience.

I have no interest in 3D or Perfect Team, but it's great that other people have those options to enjoy.

But how much further can the company go? For my money, OOTP is the best text-based sports management sim there is. And that includes Football Manager, which I was playing back when it was called Championship Manager 01/02 and still play today in the form of what they call Football Manager 2020 Touch. To me there is no comparison.

I thought it would be great if the OOTP company applied its game development expertise to other sports, but the American football experiment didn't work out. Where can they go now?

I love the company and its products, but nobody has money to spend every year just to support a company. There has to be a product intriguing enough to justify the expenditure. As much as I am enjoying OOTP22, if it disappeared tomorrow I could easily go back to OOTP14.

So this is my second iteration purchase, just found out about the game during the pandemic.
Also, should be noted I love PT and tournaments, so that is an influencer as well.

I can honestly say that I am still getting into everything but I will be an annual purchaser 100%. I don't need a ton of new development to invest 40 bucks. I spend that on coffee in two weeks. Seems like a very small price to pay for continued support and even modest development. I'm not super creative, so I can't offer a ton of suggestions as to where things might go in the future, but I appreciate everything I'm seeing so far.

[andyhdz]

I have said this before but I spend more money on going out to the movies for a family of four to hopefully get 2 hours worth of enjoyment than I do buying the once a year purchase of OOTP that is guaranteed to give me hundreds of hours of enjoyment.

I just don't see why you wouldn't spend that money once a year to get the improvements the game gives you. Sure it's not perfect but how some people hem and haw over $40 makes no sense to me considering the cost of living nowadays.

[Eugene Church]

Have bought OOTP since OOTP3... always buy it to support Markus... they have always made steady progress over the years in the areas that interest me... I play a simple game in my dynasty leagues... I let the AI run the teams for the most part in the financial part of the game... I have no interest in that part of baseball... don't use the minors (the stats in the early years were not realistic, so I didn't use them)... never checked to see if the minor league stats improved over the years.... I just use the reserve roster... I create free agents each season for the rookie class... no annual draft... in my opinion, it creates too many useless players that the AI never seems to purge from the reserve roster, so I do it myself each year... I just play out the season, mainly simming... I cover the leagues on the Dynasty Forum... I do play out all the playoff games and really enjoy watching the games play out... really excited that the animation has been upgraded in OOTP22, which I plan to purchase this week.

The game is not perfect and never will be... I wish they would work on the New Stories... work on the poorly programmed and poorly written game recaps (the player of the game is often poorly chosen)... and cover the league happenings in the News Stories throughout the regular season and postseason playoffs in simple terms...currently it's almost non-existent... and I wish they would have small minor league default stadiums ranging from 2000 to 10,000 in capacity... I never play MLB teams... just small fictional franchises... if Markus ever works on these two areas of the game, it will be a perfect game for me.

Love the game as it is in OOTP21... it more than meets my simple needs... just give me realistic stats and good animation and I'm happy.

OOTPB is a magnificent dream come true for me... I started back in the 50s playing APBA, a card-based game... did my own stats... so you know it's like I died and went to baseball Heaven with the OOTP Franchise game... I dearly loved it in OOTP3 and every version since... it offers great entertainment and great enjoyment for just 10 cents a day.

OOTP is a superlative creation and a marvelous bargain!