Players Being DFA'd After Reaching 5yr Service Time

WarningTrakPower · 02-08-2022, 07:45 AM

Recently I have noticed a trend where a player is optioned prior to reaching 5 years of service time then (during the year) once they reach the 5yr threshold, they get DFA'd to make a corresponding roster move.

So I decided to start a brand new fresh sim on default settings (scouting accuracy set to 100%) and here are the players I have found in chronological order.

Richard Bleier
He is having a fine season, plus it is almost roster expansion date. Also, they still offered him a contract in arbitration for 2022.

He was DFA'd exactly when he hit the 5yr mark after being optioned earlier in the season.

They gave his 40man spot to this other 35yr old pitcher.

Here are a few other pitchers still on the active roster.

Kyle Freeland
Made 8 appearances after signing with the NYM this offseason. DFA'd the day he hit the 5yr mark.

28 days of the MLB roster this year.

The NYM were optioning/recalling RP the past couple days.

Plus they only have 36 guys on the 40 man roster, including these guys.

Antonio Senzatela
While you can make the argument he deserved to lose his MLB job (I won't disagree with you), it is still another guy who was optioned prior to 5yr then DFA'd.

While it isn't totally uncommon, they recalled a RP from AA to replace him.

Robert Stephenson would be another DFA candidate.

They only have 39 players on the 40man roster.

Franchy Cordero
He was doing some damage in AAA when they recalled him.

He was on MLB roster for 34 days this season.

They recalled Jarren Duran on the 18th and DFA'd Franchy, then optioned him on the 19th and recalled Jenkins from AA.

They also had 39 on their 40man roster.

Pablo Lopez
This one was a very bad blunder by the Dodgers. They traded top prospect Diego Cartaya to Miami to acquire Lopez last offseason.

Here are a few guys still holding down 40man roster spots.

Lance Lynn came back from a rehab assignment which created the roster crunch.

Lopez was claimed by Miami of all teams on waivers. They resigned him and flipped him to LAA for more prospects.

Yonny Chirinos
Another guy who is replaceable, but meets the criteria.

Their 40 man has a full off DFA candidates.

Grant Holmes is having a really poor season and would be my top DFA candidate (if need be).

Robert Stock
This "extremely popular" RP has had a decent run in Chicago (those BB/9 numbers aren't great).

He was DFA'd so they could recall Cory Abbott, who they optioned the day after.

They have 39 guys on their 40man roster (including Keegan Thompson who is injured for 5 weeks).

Phil Maton isn't having a great year for the CHC.

Peter Lambert
His 2023 *should have* made him a non-tender candidate. But he meets the criteria for this investigation.

They "needed to" recall Austin Gomber from AAA.

Here are a few other pitchers on the Rockies.

Dylan Cease
Another Dodger meets the roster crunch.

Here is how he ended up in LA.

Here are a few other LAD pitchers.

They recalled a RP from AA.

JT Brubaker
He has been pretty decent for the Pirates. As soon as he hit the 5yr service time, he was DFA'd.
They also made the playoffs, so they decided against putting him on their playoff roster.

Mike Mayers made their playoff roster over Brubaker.

They added Spencer Patton to 40man to take his spot.

They ultimately released Brubaker ... and resigned Mike Mayers.

I am going to try to sim a bit further and see if more notable players end up getting the same treatment.

WarningTrakPower · 02-09-2022, 08:01 AM

AJ Puk
Certainly earned his MLB job back after being demoted to AAA early on.

Spent 75 days on MLB roster.

Patrick Murphy returns from rehab assignment and creates roster crunch.

Sonny Gray / Carlos Estevez both having terrible seasons.

Open spot on 40man plus some AA/AAA pieces who could also be DFA'd to create space.

Sterling Sharp
DFA'd when he got to 5yr service time. Having a tough season, but was worth 2.7 WAR last year.

Spent 72 days on MLB roster this year. Was ultimately non-tendered the following offseason.

40man is full now.

Recalled Colby White from A+ on the 3rd and optioned back to A+ on the 4th. Recalled Ethan Roberts. Unclear who took the 40man spot from Sterling.

Roansy Contreras
Acquired at deadline after couple decent seasons as a SP for Pitt.

Only due to make $2.2m in arb as a 27yr old pitcher.

Was traded for Gary Sanchez.

Twins are 93-52 in mid September. Plus they still have an open spot on 40man.

Recalled a MiLB SS to take his active roster spot.

Grayson Rodriguez
Has yet to totally prove himself with the Orioles.

Spent 31 days on MLB roster this season.

Orioles have an open 40man spot, plus some potential DFA candidates (25/26yr olds in AA?).

They actived a player from the IL, which created a roster crunch. Check out Ozzie Munguia who was DFA'd on the 17th and re-added to 40man on the 18th.

Grayson was a fairly highly touted prospect early on in his career (and should have some trade value).

It is early in the year, but they have a couple other pitchers who are struggling also.

Chris Clarke
He has had a nice little run in AAA/MLB the last 3 seasons.

Spent 53 days on MLB roster this year.

Their 40man is full however.

It is unclear who was actually promoted when Clarke & Sandoval were DFA'd. Zach Young went up/down in the same day on back to back days.

Deivi Garcia is off to a rough start to his season and is also out of options.

Quinn Priester
Back to back decent seasons and a likely DFA after a poor 2028 (but he fits the criteria).

This was likely an early non-tender DFA scenario as that is ultimately what ended up happening.

Their 40man is now full again.

Lost his spot to Chandler Champlain.

They have a few RP who aren't having great seasons.

Sam Delaplane
Arguably, another replaceable RP, but he meets the criteria.

He was on MLB roster for 62 days and was DFA'd at the 5yr 1 day mark.

Their 40man is full again, but plenty of DFA candidates.

Jack Clemente is not having a good MLB season.

Andres Gimenez coming off restricted list created the roster crunch. It appears Francisco Morales was DFA'd to make room for Jeffry Abreu, who was optioned after the game (perhaps).

This is as far as I going to sim with this test sim for now.
Any insights on this would be much appreciated.

Matt Arnold · 02-09-2022, 01:30 PM

It's definitely curious how it seems to trigger at about exactly the 5 year date. Do you have service time limits set on your minor leagues? I don't imagine it should cause this, but there may be something causing teams to somehow be strict on what they are doing on these players.

In any event, I would suggest if you can upload your league file (https://support.ootpdevelopments.com...p-developments) and we can investigate what might be triggering this.

WarningTrakPower · 02-09-2022, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Do you have service time limits set on your minor leagues?

No roster limitations whatsoever. This is totally blank new sim I just started.
I uploaded the files to the FTP site. "5yr service time.zip".

Thanks for taking a look at this. Some instances are far more unrealistic than others.

In one sim I had going Cleveland DFA'd Cal Quantrill in the middle of a very strong year while they were in playoff race.
They ultimately just missed playoffs and he was claimed by someone within their division.

Matt Arnold · 02-10-2022, 10:37 AM

I have had a look, and I can't see anything explicit in a "when they reach 5 years cut them". I think a lot of this ends up being because 5 years is when the right to refuse minors assignments kicks in. We could probably be a little more aggressive with the AI in trying to keep those players around, as we are in a couple other cases, and that should help it down the road.

If this is more of an issue, you could disable the right to refuse minors in the league settings, and I imagine a lot of these cases will stop. Some of these guys might simply get sent to the minors in these cases, but they likely wouldn't be DFA-ed as much.

WarningTrakPower · 02-11-2022, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

I have had a look, and I can't see anything explicit in a "when they reach 5 years cut them". I think a lot of this ends up being because 5 years is when the right to refuse minors assignments kicks in. We could probably be a little more aggressive with the AI in trying to keep those players around, as we are in a couple other cases, and that should help it down the road.

If this is more of an issue, you could disable the right to refuse minors in the league settings, and I imagine a lot of these cases will stop. Some of these guys might simply get sent to the minors in these cases, but they likely wouldn't be DFA-ed as much.

Thanks for taking a look. I just wanted to bring it your attention as it could be an order of operations change on your end to eliminate it from occurring.

Just out of curiosity, has the minimum time required to be sent in the minors after being optioned been explored on the development side of things?

I can only imagine this would be very difficult to implement, hence why it isn't already including in the game.

The reason I ask is because the AI is constantly optioning/recalling players almost every 2nd day it seems.
Even in the playoffs when their team is out of the playoffs teams are still optioning/recalling players.

Here is one example I could find and I am sure you have seen the same thing in your sims.

Matt Arnold · 02-11-2022, 11:04 AM

The min option time thing has always been on the list to investigate as well. The main problems are that there are ways around it (mainly about replacing an injured player), so as with all rules, it's never a simple thing.

02-08-2022, 07:45 AM	#1
WarningTrakPower All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 595	Players Being DFA'd After Reaching 5yr Service Time Recently I have noticed a trend where a player is optioned prior to reaching 5 years of service time then (during the year) once they reach the 5yr threshold, they get DFA'd to make a corresponding roster move. So I decided to start a brand new fresh sim on default settings (scouting accuracy set to 100%) and here are the players I have found in chronological order. Richard Bleier He is having a fine season, plus it is almost roster expansion date. Also, they still offered him a contract in arbitration for 2022. He was DFA'd exactly when he hit the 5yr mark after being optioned earlier in the season. They gave his 40man spot to this other 35yr old pitcher. Here are a few other pitchers still on the active roster. Kyle Freeland Made 8 appearances after signing with the NYM this offseason. DFA'd the day he hit the 5yr mark. 28 days of the MLB roster this year. The NYM were optioning/recalling RP the past couple days. Plus they only have 36 guys on the 40 man roster, including these guys. Antonio Senzatela While you can make the argument he deserved to lose his MLB job (I won't disagree with you), it is still another guy who was optioned prior to 5yr then DFA'd. While it isn't totally uncommon, they recalled a RP from AA to replace him. Robert Stephenson would be another DFA candidate. They only have 39 players on the 40man roster. Franchy Cordero He was doing some damage in AAA when they recalled him. He was on MLB roster for 34 days this season. They recalled Jarren Duran on the 18th and DFA'd Franchy, then optioned him on the 19th and recalled Jenkins from AA. They also had 39 on their 40man roster. Pablo Lopez This one was a very bad blunder by the Dodgers. They traded top prospect Diego Cartaya to Miami to acquire Lopez last offseason. Here are a few guys still holding down 40man roster spots. Lance Lynn came back from a rehab assignment which created the roster crunch. Lopez was claimed by Miami of all teams on waivers. They resigned him and flipped him to LAA for more prospects. Yonny Chirinos Another guy who is replaceable, but meets the criteria. Their 40 man has a full off DFA candidates. Grant Holmes is having a really poor season and would be my top DFA candidate (if need be). Robert Stock This "extremely popular" RP has had a decent run in Chicago (those BB/9 numbers aren't great). He was DFA'd so they could recall Cory Abbott, who they optioned the day after. They have 39 guys on their 40man roster (including Keegan Thompson who is injured for 5 weeks). Phil Maton isn't having a great year for the CHC. Peter Lambert His 2023 should have made him a non-tender candidate. But he meets the criteria for this investigation. They "needed to" recall Austin Gomber from AAA. Here are a few other pitchers on the Rockies. Dylan Cease Another Dodger meets the roster crunch. Here is how he ended up in LA. Here are a few other LAD pitchers. They recalled a RP from AA. JT Brubaker He has been pretty decent for the Pirates. As soon as he hit the 5yr service time, he was DFA'd. They also made the playoffs, so they decided against putting him on their playoff roster. Mike Mayers made their playoff roster over Brubaker. They added Spencer Patton to 40man to take his spot. They ultimately released Brubaker ... and resigned Mike Mayers. I am going to try to sim a bit further and see if more notable players end up getting the same treatment.

02-09-2022, 08:01 AM	#2
WarningTrakPower All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 595	A few more examples AJ Puk Certainly earned his MLB job back after being demoted to AAA early on. Spent 75 days on MLB roster. Patrick Murphy returns from rehab assignment and creates roster crunch. Sonny Gray / Carlos Estevez both having terrible seasons. Open spot on 40man plus some AA/AAA pieces who could also be DFA'd to create space. Sterling Sharp DFA'd when he got to 5yr service time. Having a tough season, but was worth 2.7 WAR last year. Spent 72 days on MLB roster this year. Was ultimately non-tendered the following offseason. 40man is full now. Recalled Colby White from A+ on the 3rd and optioned back to A+ on the 4th. Recalled Ethan Roberts. Unclear who took the 40man spot from Sterling. Roansy Contreras Acquired at deadline after couple decent seasons as a SP for Pitt. Only due to make $2.2m in arb as a 27yr old pitcher. Was traded for Gary Sanchez. Twins are 93-52 in mid September. Plus they still have an open spot on 40man. Recalled a MiLB SS to take his active roster spot. Grayson Rodriguez Has yet to totally prove himself with the Orioles. Spent 31 days on MLB roster this season. Orioles have an open 40man spot, plus some potential DFA candidates (25/26yr olds in AA?). They actived a player from the IL, which created a roster crunch. Check out Ozzie Munguia who was DFA'd on the 17th and re-added to 40man on the 18th. Grayson was a fairly highly touted prospect early on in his career (and should have some trade value). It is early in the year, but they have a couple other pitchers who are struggling also. Chris Clarke He has had a nice little run in AAA/MLB the last 3 seasons. Spent 53 days on MLB roster this year. Their 40man is full however. It is unclear who was actually promoted when Clarke & Sandoval were DFA'd. Zach Young went up/down in the same day on back to back days. Deivi Garcia is off to a rough start to his season and is also out of options. Quinn Priester Back to back decent seasons and a likely DFA after a poor 2028 (but he fits the criteria). This was likely an early non-tender DFA scenario as that is ultimately what ended up happening. Their 40man is now full again. Lost his spot to Chandler Champlain. They have a few RP who aren't having great seasons. Sam Delaplane Arguably, another replaceable RP, but he meets the criteria. He was on MLB roster for 62 days and was DFA'd at the 5yr 1 day mark. Their 40man is full again, but plenty of DFA candidates. Jack Clemente is not having a good MLB season. Andres Gimenez coming off restricted list created the roster crunch. It appears Francisco Morales was DFA'd to make room for Jeffry Abreu, who was optioned after the game (perhaps). This is as far as I going to sim with this test sim for now. Any insights on this would be much appreciated.

02-09-2022, 01:30 PM	#3
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,726	It's definitely curious how it seems to trigger at about exactly the 5 year date. Do you have service time limits set on your minor leagues? I don't imagine it should cause this, but there may be something causing teams to somehow be strict on what they are doing on these players. In any event, I would suggest if you can upload your league file (https://support.ootpdevelopments.com...p-developments) and we can investigate what might be triggering this.

02-10-2022, 10:37 AM	#5
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,726	I have had a look, and I can't see anything explicit in a "when they reach 5 years cut them". I think a lot of this ends up being because 5 years is when the right to refuse minors assignments kicks in. We could probably be a little more aggressive with the AI in trying to keep those players around, as we are in a couple other cases, and that should help it down the road. If this is more of an issue, you could disable the right to refuse minors in the league settings, and I imagine a lot of these cases will stop. Some of these guys might simply get sent to the minors in these cases, but they likely wouldn't be DFA-ed as much.

02-11-2022, 11:04 AM	#7
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 15,726	The min option time thing has always been on the list to investigate as well. The main problems are that there are ways around it (mainly about replacing an injured player), so as with all rules, it's never a simple thing.