What teams to the 1871 teams become?

[bearer12]

I feel like there should be a way to find this out before I invest time into a team starting from an 1871 sim, but I can’t for the life of me find a list of what each team from the 1871 season will turn into if I play it out for several decades. Does anyone know where to find that? I just don’t want to end up playing in the Oakland Colliseum or as the Yankees, etc.

[Syd Thrift]

Hmm… IRL the NA fell apart in part because they couldn’t retain the big cities in an association-of-players based model. I think the only modern team who can trace their lineage to the NA - I know this holds for 1871 - are the Braves, who started as the Boston Red Caps (and arguably can trace back to the 1869 Reds, as most of those players jumped to the Boston team after 1870). Anyways the first deal there is that none of those teams will ever become AL teams so there’s literally no worry about them turning into the Yankees.

All that said, the game is designed around playing from 1901 on. If you play through 1900 I *think* the AL will get added but it’ll be as the second league and that will start really messing up schedules once the 60s hit. If you have the extra time you could set things up manually although that’s going to be a good deal of work to be honest. There are whole entire leagues - the American Association, Union Association, and Players’ League that the game doesn’t handle.

To me a great starting point is actually 1893. That’s the year after the AA and the PL folded and things are basically all set up. In 1900 4 teams disband to get down to the 8 “original” NL teams and in 1901 the American League emerges. You’ll still have to do some moving around come 1901 - well, at least I would, because the schedules will never quite be right - but it’s a lot less personal work than getting the 1870s and 1880s to go.

If you do go back further, you’re going to have a lot of teams folding at the end of the year, a couple instances where they don’t get to the end of the year before they fold (including one case where a team folds and then a new team is “admitted” - fortunately with the same roster as the old team - to take their place), and lots of weirdo one year issues. Of course the rules were also constantly changing and OOTP does not really reflect this except that the stats come out (so, like, if you watch games, guys in 1871 will still strike out after 3 pitches, not (essentially) 9, it’s just that there will be very few of them), and the people I know who do this with historical accuracy in mind have to a bunch of work on the side (I know Eckstein 4 Prez will literally go look at contemporary newspapers because he is insane). I did a fictionalized version a few versions ago and even that was quite a bit of work.

[Charlie Hough]

It's a bit complicated and tricky due to what happened in the 19th century and turn of the next century, but I don't think there is a way to see this within OOTP. Here are links to two visual charts that can help you:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...6vchy6fl3t.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...6vchy6fl3t.png

[thehef]

If you start an OOTP historical game in 1871, I believe this is how the franchise evolutions will play out:

TEAMS THAT BEGIN IN 1871
AL Boston Red Stockings/Caps/Beaneaters move to NL for 1882 and eventually become the Braves franchise that moves to Milwaukee and then Atlanta.

NL Chicago White Stockings become Middletown Mansfields for 1872, then Baltimore Marylands for 1873, then Chic White Stockings from 1874-1889, the Chicago Colts 1890-97, Orphans 1898-1902, then the Cubs...

NL Rockford Forest Citys > Baltimore Canaries 1872-74 > New Haven Elm Citys 1875 > Cincinnati Reds 1876-current (occ. named Red Stockings)

AL Cleveland Forest Citys > Elizabeth Resolutes 1873 > Hartford Dark Blues 1874-1877 > Milwaukee Grays 1878 > Cleveland Blues 1879-1884 > St Louis Maroons 1885-86, then settle in Cleveland (as Blues, Spiders, Blues again, Bronchos, Naps, and then the Guardians-instead-of-Indians silliness...

NL Fort Wayne Kekiongas > Brooklyn Atlantics 1872-75 > Louisville Grays 1876-1878 > Buffalo Bisons 1879-1883 > Brooklyn Atlantics 1884, various nicknames but remains in Brooklyn until 1958 move to LA...

AL Washington Olympics/Blue Legs/Nationals > Syracuse Stars 1879 > Worcester Ruby Legs 1880-82 > Columbus Buckeyes 1883 > Wash Nats again 1884 > Buffalo Bisons 1885 > Wash Nats again 1886-89 > Syracuse Stars 1890 > Wash Statesmen for 1891, then Wash Senators until 1961 move to Minnesota.

AL Philly Athletics > Louisville Colonels 1892-1900 > Phil Athletics 1900 thru move to KC in '55, Oak in '68.

NL Troy Haymakers > Philadelphia Whites 1873-1878 > Troy Trojans 1879-1882 > Philadelphia Quakers thru 1889, who become Phillies in 1890.

NL New York Mutuals become Gothams 1883-84, then the Giants in 1885... move to SF for 1958.

TEAMS THAT BEGIN IN 1872
AL Brooklyn Eckfords > Keokuk Westerns 1875-80 > Detroit Wolverines 1881-88 > Columbus Solons 1889-90 > Milw Brewers 1891-1900 > Detroit Tigers 1901-current

NL Washington Nationals > Philadelphia Centennials 1875-1881 > Pittsburgh Alleghenys 1882-1890, then Pirates...

TEAMS THAT BEGIN IN 1875
AL St Louis Brown Stockings/Browns become the Milw Brewers for the 1901 season, then the St L Browns for 1902, and then become the Orioles in 1954.

NL St Louis Red Stockings become Providence Grays 1878-1885 > Kansas City Cowboys 1886 > Indianapolis Hoosiers 1887 > Kansas City Cowboys 1888-89 > Brooklyn Gladiators 1890 > Louisville Colonels 1891 > settle as St Louis Cardinals in 1892 thru current.

TEAMS THAT BEGIN IN 1882
AL Louisville Eclispe/Colonels become Boston Reds for 1891 and continue as the modern-day Red Sox (Reds 1891-1900 Americans 1901-1907).

AL Baltimore Orioles > NY Highlanders 1903, who become the Yankees in 1913

TEAMS THAT BEGIN IN 1883
AL New York Metropolitans become Indianapolis Hoosiers 1888-89, Rochester Broncos for 1890, Columbus Solons 1891-1900, and then become the Chic White Sox.

This is from the teams.csv file that you can find in your stats folder (in case you also want to see the ballpark or whatever else.)

[thehef]

Originally Posted by thehef

This is from the teams.csv file that you can find in your stats folder (in case you also want to see the ballpark or whatever else.)

I should add: The field that connects teams as a franchise is franchID, in the fourth column.