Historical database issues go here!

[Charlie Hough]

Is there any way I can replace the OOTP 24 historical database with the OOTP 23 database, including historical minors? There are far too many issues from the database merger, and it's looking like it could be a very long time until we see everything fixed, especially when you include historical minors. I personally believe the merger should be rolled back in the official releases until all of these issues can be fixed in further beta testing.

[Carplos]

Overwrite the files in the 24 database folder with those from the 23 folder? I assume the only issue would be you can't do 2022, but not sure how many people would be doing that anyway.

[LansdowneSt]

If OOTP 24 is looking for value in a database and OOTP 23 would have looked for it in a completely different database that OOTP 24 isn’t programmed to even acknowledge… I don’t see how that works. It’s not an updated database exactly - one db is missing and code presumably repointed.

There are wonky players as a result of the merger (tangled records) and I’m sure many were addressed in beta but as was stated at the outset, the two db approach was unsustainable and in this transition year we just need to keep reporting the anomalies. If I see a wonky player, I just delete them (after reporting them here).

[Lukas Berger]

You can't use the 23 db in 24, there's too much in the structure that has changed.

For sure there are some issues here in 24 still not fixed that are related to the db merger, but quite frankly there were far more issues using the old pre-merger historical db. The big difference being though, that a lot of the older issues were errors that resulted in players not showing up at all etc, and had been the same for years without anyone much noticing.

Overall, even with the issues still to be worked on this year, the db is actually in much better shape than it was last year. It's just more that some of the issues this year are more obvious, because they come from things like merged records resulting in some weird entries that are a little more visible than the errors from previous years where problems mostly resulted in players/stats/records not appearing at all.

At any rate, the few remaining issues, as well as things like adding in all the hometowns should all get cleaned up within a relatively quick period of time here.

[Charlie Hough]

I don't think it's accurate to say that there are "few" remaining issues, and these are not necessarily cases of players who never showed up in past versions of OOTP. As the examples below will show, some of the data may have been bad all along, but there are problems occurring with OOTP 24 that did not happen with the same players in OOTP 23.

As a quick example, I created saved games in both OOTP 23 and OOTP 24 for comparison, and these three players had database issues all along. But they are being handled very differently in OOTP 24. FYI, I used neutralized stats in both cases, but OOTP seems to use their non-neutralized stats if they don't have any neutralized stats in the database.

All three of these players were imported as an SP in OOTP 24 instead of their proper positions, where they were imported in OOTP 23. These players were never pitchers in real life, and I don't think any of them ever pitched an inning at any level, but they have some pitching stats in the database, and many of the same limited pitching stats are repeated across different years, so there is something wrong with the data. But the big difference is that they were imported at correct positions in OOTP 23, with proper batting ratings based on their batting stats and proper minor league roster assignments, despite having some limited pitching stats and being given substandard pitching ratings. In OOTP 24, they were imported as SPs, placed on MLB rosters as pitchers, and in two of these cases, they were given batting ratings as if they were pitchers, even though they have real-life batting stats for proper ratings.

Whatever is going on here seems to be a problem with the database as well as what OOTP 24 is doing with it. It's definitely not the same as OOTP 23 when comparing the same players and conditions with the same settings. And it's not simply a matter of players suddenly appearing who didn't get imported previously.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Whatever is going on here seems to be a problem with the database as well as what OOTP 24 is doing with it. It's definitely not the same as OOTP 23 when comparing the same players and conditions with the same settings. And it's not simply a matter of players suddenly appearing who didn't get imported previously.

This is not a db issue as such, as that specific aspect (pitching stats being present in some cases for non-pitchers) has not changed at all in many years and is one of the db issues that the merger is intended to fix.

It's certainly possible the game is processing this sort of player differently than in 23 and we can take a look at that, along with working to get rid of any of these superfluous stats.

[dp4m]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Overall, even with the issues still to be worked on this year, the db is actually in much better shape than it was last year. It's just more that some of the issues this year are more obvious, because they come from things like merged records resulting in some weird entries that are a little more visible than the errors from previous years where problems mostly resulted in players/stats/records not appearing at all.

At any rate, the few remaining issues, as well as things like adding in all the hometowns should all get cleaned up within a relatively quick period of time here.

Lukas -- just curious, but could you explain (in brief) how some of the technical issues are cropping up post-Beta for players that both imported fine in '23, and in Beta, and don't have merged records (necessarily, that I am aware of)?

Ed Morris (morried01; 1884) was the one I raised above. I'm hearing from another player in my league that Pud Galvin (galvipu01; also 1884) also got FUBAR'd at some point. Both shouldn't have had specific issues between versions or between Beta and Live I am aware of?

[szathkey]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I did post and ask a few days ago about a timeline…agree it doesn’t seem to look like there are only “a few issues”, which is why I asked if someone was going through the DB looking for issues and correcting or if the team was relying on the reports in the forum. Does the team expect most issues to be ironed out by the next patch? Two patches from now? Just an idea would help


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by szathkey

Not to beat a dead horse, but I did post and ask a few days ago about a timeline…agree it doesn’t seem to look like there are only “a few issues”, which is why I asked if someone was going through the DB looking for issues and correcting or if the team was relying on the reports in the forum. Does the team expect most issues to be ironed out by the next patch? Two patches from now? Just an idea would help

We have lists of most of the remaining issues, the merged players, unlinked 1884 stats, missing hometowns etc.

It's just a matter of working through those. It's hard to give too precise a timeline though, because this is definitely not the only thing we have going on and other things can always interfere.

I wouldn't think it will be a lot longer though for most of the major stuff.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by dp4m

Lukas -- just curious, but could you explain (in brief) how some of the technical issues are cropping up post-Beta for players that both imported fine in '23, and in Beta, and don't have merged records (necessarily, that I am aware of)?

Ed Morris (morried01; 1884) was the one I raised above. I'm hearing from another player in my league that Pud Galvin (galvipu01; also 1884) also got FUBAR'd at some point. Both shouldn't have had specific issues between versions or between Beta and Live I am aware of?

There are some 1884 stats that are not linked to any teams, because the teams these players played for are no in the db, given that 1884 had a larger amount of teams than other years in the 19th century. So these need to be linked to a team record and then they should import.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying in regard to beta though, because afaik these records shouldn't have worked in beta.

Galvin in fact, I fixed a while back, so the timeline there should have been that he didn't import with proper ratings if you imported his 1884 record in beta, but he should import correctly now.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

This is not a db issue as such, as that specific aspect (pitching stats being present in some cases for non-pitchers) has not changed at all in many years and is one of the db issues that the merger is intended to fix.

It's certainly possible the game is processing this sort of player differently than in 23 and we can take a look at that, along with working to get rid of any of these superfluous stats.

Coming back to this, is this happening only when you have recalc turned off, or does it happen when recalc is on as well?

[dp4m]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

There are some 1884 stats that are not linked to any teams, because the teams these players played for are no in the db, given that 1884 had a larger amount of teams than other years in the 19th century. So these need to be linked to a team record and then they should import.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying in regard to beta though, because afaik these records shouldn't have worked in beta.

Galvin in fact, I fixed a while back, so the timeline there should have been that he didn't import with proper ratings if you imported his 1884 record in beta, but he should import correctly now.

Yeah, if you looked at the picture I posted above (I only have Morris, not Galvin) -- I definitely imported Morris at some point (almost certainly in Beta) and his stats were comparable to OOTP23... and now after all of the patches, he is no longer working.

I don't know if it matters that I clear rosters and look at everyone as FAs (and import people as Free Agents); but this is two exact same imports separated by some number of patches in the same Historical year (1957).

Reposted for clarity:

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

This is not a db issue as such, as that specific aspect (pitching stats being present in some cases for non-pitchers) has not changed at all in many years and is one of the db issues that the merger is intended to fix.

It's certainly possible the game is processing this sort of player differently than in 23 and we can take a look at that, along with working to get rid of any of these superfluous stats.

Seems to me that there should be an AI program that would catch and fix these errors.

[ghostman777]

When will this be fixed, I bought the game, I would really like to play it.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

As a quick example, I created saved games in both OOTP 23 and OOTP 24 for comparison, and these three players had database issues all along. But they are being handled very differently in OOTP 24. FYI, I used neutralized stats in both cases, but OOTP seems to use their non-neutralized stats if they don't have any neutralized stats in the database.

All three of these players were imported as an SP in OOTP 24 instead of their proper positions, where they were imported in OOTP 23. These players were never pitchers in real life, and I don't think any of them ever pitched an inning at any level, but they have some pitching stats in the database, and many of the same limited pitching stats are repeated across different years, so there is something wrong with the data. But the big difference is that they were imported at correct positions in OOTP 23, with proper batting ratings based on their batting stats and proper minor league roster assignments, despite having some limited pitching stats and being given substandard pitching ratings. In OOTP 24, they were imported as SPs, placed on MLB rosters as pitchers, and in two of these cases, they were given batting ratings as if they were pitchers, even though they have real-life batting stats for proper ratings.

Whatever is going on here seems to be a problem with the database as well as what OOTP 24 is doing with it. It's definitely not the same as OOTP 23 when comparing the same players and conditions with the same settings. And it's not simply a matter of players suddenly appearing who didn't get imported previously.

I asked above, but just want to ask again since it's kind of important as to what specific settings you're using here?

Not so much in connection to neutralized stats, but I think the important setting here might have to do with recalc being on or off. If recalc is on, these guys should all import as or switch to being batters properly. If they are not, then that's a bug.

If recalc is off, that's when this gets trickier as if a guy imports as a pitcher, he might never switch over or vice-versa and we may need to code in a fix here or see how this changed from previous years and revert some code.

Not just for guys with the fake stats, but for real pitcher/hitters too, like Babe Ruth or Rick Ankiel.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Braden

Seems to me that there should be an AI program that would catch and fix these errors.

Catching the errors is pretty easy using some formulas, but fixing them is the much harder part.

I don't think AI could help with that, unfortunately as it can be very complicated just to even figure out which players are combined.

[Lukas Berger]

Ok, I think I finally got rid of all those pesky 1800's (and other eras too) merged guys with the wrong dobs for next patch.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Catching the errors is pretty easy using some formulas, but fixing them is the much harder part.

I don't think AI could help with that, unfortunately as it can be very complicated just to even figure out which players are combined.

Self-learning AI figured out how to play and win the ancient Chinese game of GO without being 'told' how to play. It now cannot be beaten by a human. I think it could do this stuff for OOTP! Read The Big Nine.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

Ok, I think I finally got rid of all those pesky 1800's (and other eras too) merged guys with the wrong dobs for next patch.

Hopefully, the problem with 1900's Negro League progression not in line with history will also be fixed, e.g. wrong players, teams not actually in the league, etc.

[beamer1029]

I have a player in my challenge mode save that isnt aging or developing, any idea how to fix?