Long Relief, Avoid Higher Leverage, Mop Up<-Does what?

[redsixerfan]

Anyone know how often and when the AI will use a pitcher listed as Long Relief?
And how much a difference if you add Avoid High Leverage?
And how much more difference if you add Mop Up?

[bailey]

This video answers a lot of your questions. Mr. Black will also be Lap's guest this upcoming Monday so watch out for that video if you can't attend live.

[redsixerfan]

Originally Posted by bailey

This video answers a lot of your questions. Mr. Black will also be Lap's guest this upcoming Monday so watch out for that video if you can't attend live.

That's very interesting and informative. But do we know how "correct" he is in all those different settings? I did hear more than one person suggest turn off stealing though.

[bailey]

Why are you asking questions in this forum if you don't want to believe what people are saying? The only alternative is to do your own research.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by redsixerfan

That's very interesting and informative. But do we know how "correct" he is in all those different settings? I did hear more than one person suggest turn off stealing though.

Im not even sure how you’d check this to be honest. I will say that the game will use whatever it has apportioned to it. If you have a 10 man bullpen with one guy set to do nothing but long, low leverage relief, that’s probably all he’ll do. If you have a 4 man pen, it’s my experience that the AI will avoid using tired players first before truly considering roles, so if it’s the 9th inning with a tie score and the only guy above a 50% fatigue is your long man, expect him to be used.

But generally speaking, I sim out all my games until the 7th so most of the decisions I see the AI make with regard to pitching are choosing long relievers. It’s my experience that the AI will pretty much only use higher grade relievers before the 7th if the score is still close (although IME if, say, a starter leaves due to injury in the 3rd and someone has to throw multiple innings, that’s pretty much always done by the long man regardless of the score) or in the specific case of stoppers if the game is absolutely on the line in the 6th inning.

[redsixerfan]

Originally Posted by bailey

Why are you asking questions in this forum if you don't want to believe what people are saying? The only alternative is to do your own research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by bailey

This video answers a lot of your questions. Mr. Black will also be Lap's guest this upcoming Monday so watch out for that video if you can't attend live.

Specifically, bullpen use is covered extensively at the one-hour mark. A mop-up guy will just keep pitching regardless of stamina issues, so he saves your other relievers for a game that isn't a blow-out. The general idea on long relief is that it's sixth inning or earlier. Middle relief is seventh and eighth. Setup is seventh or eighth (your choice) with a lead.


Stopper is an older type of role, where he gets the call when the game is on the line and tries to close it out with a multi-inning appearance. Look up 1970s relievers like Mike Marshall or Rollie Fingers. This was from a time when you had one or two go-to guys in the bullpen instead of all the specialist roles we have now. It can be very useful in PT, since PT is multi-era, and teams tend to use a lot of high-stamina starters in the pen.

[redsixerfan]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Specifically, bullpen use is covered extensively at the one-hour mark. A mop-up guy will just keep pitching regardless of stamina issues, so he saves your other relievers for a game that isn't a blow-out. The general idea on long relief is that it's sixth inning or earlier. Middle relief is seventh and eighth. Setup is seventh or eighth (your choice) with a lead.


Stopper is an older type of role, where he gets the call when the game is on the line and tries to close it out with a multi-inning appearance. Look up 1970s relievers like Mike Marshall or Rollie Fingers. This was from a time when you had one or two go-to guys in the bullpen instead of all the specialist roles we have now. It can be very useful in PT, since PT is multi-era, and teams tend to use a lot of high-stamina starters in the pen.

I see some make all their pitchers middle relief. Does that mean AI will never use a bullpen guy till 7th inning?

[LeeD]

Defined bullpen roles are signposts or guidelines for the AI. The AI will still select SOMEBODY to pitch even if the roles don't match the current situation. If your starter gets knocked out in the third inning and you don't have any long relievers defined, the AI will choose based on its own evaluation. Also, you don't see everything there is to see about another team's bullpen roles. They might have everyone defined as primary middle relief (you see this) but with secondary roles like stopper or long relief (you don't see this).

[redsixerfan]

Originally Posted by LeeD

Defined bullpen roles are signposts or guidelines for the AI. The AI will still select SOMEBODY to pitch even if the roles don't match the current situation. If your starter gets knocked out in the third inning and you don't have any long relievers defined, the AI will choose based on its own evaluation. Also, you don't see everything there is to see about another team's bullpen roles. They might have everyone defined as primary middle relief (you see this) but with secondary roles like stopper or long relief (you don't see this).

Yes, I been "spying" on other teams, particularly the ones that win the tournament. to see what they are doing, was able to get some roster ideas, sadly like you said you can't see their strategies.

[uruguru]

Originally Posted by redsixerfan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

You do realize they put Socrates to death for basically being a real pain in the neck, right?

[SlyVaz]

Originally Posted by uruguru

You do realize they put Socrates to death for basically being a real pain in the neck, right?

just like many famous martyrs throughout history. what's your point? no need to be a troll.

so what, he had legitimate follow up questions and wanted clarification. not everyone is as all knowing as you.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by redsixerfan

I see some make all their pitchers middle relief. Does that mean AI will never use a bullpen guy till 7th inning?

I do that sometimes and it means I am clueless and/or lazy. It leaves reliever usage up to the AI and no it will not force starters to go 7.

From my all-iron team that made it to iron league.




Harvey is closer because it has 165 stuff
Swetonic is long relief because it has stamina, is lowest OVR, and has a good name. Got it in my starter packs and it's not bad.
Who can tell about the rest? I don't know. Middle relief it is!

[redsixerfan]

Originally Posted by bailey

I do that sometimes and it means I am clueless and/or lazy. It leaves reliever usage up to the AI and no it will not force starters to go 7.

From my all-iron team that made it to iron league.

Attachment 958924


Harvey is closer because it has 165 stuff
Swetonic is long relief because it has stamina, is lowest OVR, and has a good name. Got it in my starter packs and it's not bad.
Who can tell about the rest? I don't know. Middle relief it is!

I have Connor Brogdon as my closer, really don't know why. Maybe I should change it.

I kinda might like the idea of going all middle relief, because theoretically all your RP's should be about equal ability, so the AI would use most rested???????

[bailey]

PBABIP should be at least 80 from both sides. See Carl Lundgren and Charlie Lea (which is brand new; not a must have). I'm using Lundgren as my stopper/closer in bronze tourneys.

[redsixerfan]

Originally Posted by bailey

PBABIP should be at least 80 from both sides. See Carl Lundgren and Charlie Lea (which is brand new; not a must have). I'm using Lundgren as my stopper/closer in bronze tourneys.

So why no lefties in your BP?

[bailey]

Originally Posted by redsixerfan

So why no lefties in your BP?

My starters are all righties.

[redsixerfan]

Originally Posted by bailey

I do that sometimes and it means I am clueless and/or lazy. It leaves reliever usage up to the AI and no it will not force starters to go 7.

From my all-iron team that made it to iron league.

Attachment 958924


Harvey is closer because it has 165 stuff
Swetonic is long relief because it has stamina, is lowest OVR, and has a good name. Got it in my starter packs and it's not bad.
Who can tell about the rest? I don't know. Middle relief it is!

I been doing much better in the iron tournaments, but I am going to try Harvey at closer all day today. see how that goes.

[Will_L]

Originally Posted by LeeD

This was from a time when you had one or two go-to guys in the bullpen instead of all the specialist roles we have now. It can be very useful in PT, since PT is multi-era, and teams tend to use a lot of high-stamina starters in the pen.

Since you mention high-stamina starters in the pen. I'm wondering how others set their pitch counts/batters faced.

I switch them all to reliever or closer from starter.

I use pitch counts and set 66+ stamina pitchers to 1/3 of their stamina and I set those starters with 40 to 65 stamina to 1/2 of it.
Currently using Sandy Koufax as closer (S-126 M-40 C-40 PC of 20) on my Quick Iron BO5's and he is sometimes amazing and sometimes an arsonist.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by Will_L

Since you mention high-stamina starters in the pen. I'm wondering how others set their pitch counts/batters faced.

I switch them all to reliever or closer from starter.

I use pitch counts and set 66+ stamina pitchers to 1/3 of their stamina and I set those starters with 40 to 65 stamina to 1/2 of it.
Currently using Sandy Koufax as closer (S-126 M-40 C-40 PC of 20) on my Quick Iron BO5's and he is sometimes amazing and sometimes an arsonist.

I definitely use pitch counts on starters at the higher league levels and in all tournaments, and for relievers at all league levels and in all tournaments. Iron quicks and all leagues run in modern settings, so 25 pitches is about the limit for relievers. Any more and they'll be out multiple days with fatigue, which is OK for a mop-up guy but unacceptable for the guys you want pitching in tight games.


Koufax works in Iron tourneys because he strikes guys out and because the usual lineups are full of low-Avoid-K hitters. I think that there are clearly better choices, though, because you also want someone who isn't vulnerable to the long ball. A 37 homer rating means that guys like Dunn or Kingman or Schimpf are in launch mode if they do avoid that K.