Wow!

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by Pelican

But we know what actually happened, historically. Why simply try as hard as possible to replicate that? Where's the fun or the challenge in that?

That's a topic for an entirely different discussion, and maybe you're already aware of all of this, so please forgive me for taking some time to propose an answer.

Until recently, the vast majority of baseball sim gamers were people who originally played APBA, Strat-O-Matic, and other sims where statistical accuracy and replays were the entire point.

In the early decades of baseball sims, when they were all tabletop games, many people didn't have an MLB team nearby, couldn't physically attend games, and could only listen to them on the radio, read about them in the newspaper, or occasionally see a game on TV. They wanted to bring the games and players into their homes. To create a realistic and immersive experience, they wanted those players to perform on their tabletops as they actually did on the real-life diamond.

So, the first objective was to develop statistical and mathematical models that could actually simulate baseball and get players to generate realistic and accurate statistics. That alone was a massive challenge that required many years to perfect, with varying degrees of success, and it was the entire purpose of baseball sims.

The prospect of player development, AI GMs, and other "what-if" features were not possible within the constraints of the game format, so that never became a focus.

Instead, sims were designed, graded and evaluated based on their level of statistical accuracy relative to real-life stats, and there is no better way to test that than by replaying a season and comparing your simulated stats to real life. Sim designers worked to increase that accuracy as much as possible and get results to match real-life statistics as closely as they could. Companies such as APBA and Strat-O-Matic built their entire business models around that, and the gaming audience adopted the same focus. It became a feedback loop where the games constantly marketed their accuracy and replay capabilities, and the audience took on that same mindset and demanded the same.

When those sims moved into the PC realm, the same expectations and focus carried over. It even continues to this day with products such as Strat-O-Matic, even though it now provides some limited AI, draft, and other features.

Of course, many people also loved the idea of building their own team or seeing how results could be different from real life with different personnel, transactions, management strategies, etc. That's how we ended up with play-by-mail draft leagues, Rotisserie League Baseball (now fantasy baseball), and computer sim leagues. But you couldn't do that very easily with tabletop games.

With PC games, it became much easier, and it became possible to create AI GMs and managers, player development engines, and build up those "what-if" capabilities for solo or online play. But that was extremely difficult to do back in the 1980s and 1990s, when all of this started to happen. It took many more years to get to the point where we are with OOTP and other management sims, which is a monumental achievement. The sim audience has slowly evolved, adapted, and taken on this new focus with successive generations.

But, even today, there are large numbers of sim fans who do historical replays and demand precise statistical accuracy, which is why we have one-year recalc, real-life rosters and transactions, and other features in OOTP. That audience is inevitably growing much smaller as it ages out and people pass on, but it's still there and will probably continue to be part of the sim audience forever.

[Pelican]

I really appreciate your discussion. And you’re right. That is my history. I played both Strat-o-matic and APBA card and dice games for years. The players and their teams performed remarkably as IRL. For fun, we would draft teams and compete. Over time, I graduated to the APBA computer games, and of course the results were stunning. Again, draft leagues were more of a challenge. We could modify ratings, but not on any systematic basis. No development, per se.

What drew me to OOTP (in addition to being able to play on my Mac) was the increased realism of the financial side, contracts, free agency, farm systems. What hooked me was learning that I could change certain factors and keep the rest, for my “what if” scenarios. So, yeah, I still rely on the players performing as IRL, at least until I detach from real trades and injuries and retirements, and see what happens. Without a game engine that played in a realistic way, my tinkering would not be possible. I rely on that precise statistical accuracy, even as I begin to alter some of the factors that influence it.

Thank you for reminding me of where I started, now well over fifty years ago.

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Just made it to the start of September in my 1954 season. I have to say, so far I'm really enjoying this development only historical minors setup. Hopefully my computer doesn't explode from the 7000 leagues in operation during this period. I'm excited to see how the game transitions from one season to the next in terms of player performance. I usually use a combo of recalc and the development engines in my games. It's been a long time since I turned recalc off completely.

‘54 is surprising fun. I have been playing with a focus on trying to make that year’s Philadelphia A’s (last year in Philly IRL) and Baltimore Orioles (first year, after moving from St. Louis) not be awful. It’s a challenge. In reality, neither team had any focus on winning. The Orioles knew they would draw well regardless, and traded away some of their best guys, building for the future. The A’s were running out of money and running out of time in Philly. With a bunch of changes, they each are decent (still losing) teams.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Pelican

‘54 is surprising fun. I have been playing with a focus on trying to make that year’s Philadelphia A’s (last year in Philly IRL) and Baltimore Orioles (first year, after moving from St. Louis) not be awful. It’s a challenge. In reality, neither team had any focus on winning. The Orioles knew they would draw well regardless, and traded away some of their best guys, building for the future. The A’s were running out of money and running out of time in Philly. With a bunch of changes, they each are decent (still losing) teams.

Brooklyn ended up defeating the Yankees in the 54 World Series. I have free agency turned on and both Carl Furillo and Duke Snider left Brooklyn during the off season, signing with Cleveland. Brooklyn as expected is struggling in 1955. The Giants are sitting on top of the NL, 4 1/2 games up on the St. Louis Cardinals. Eddie Mathews and Willies Mays are battling it out for the NL home run crown. Mathews has 28, Mays 26. We are in the early days of July.. In the AL, we have a really tight race between New York, Boston and Cleveland. Chicago is within striking distance as well. The Yankees are currently a game up in the standings. Al Kaline has 19 home runs and tied with Mickey Mantle for the AL lead. Kaline has at times in 55 led AL in Avg, Homers and RBI.

[David Watts]

The New York Giants went on an absolute tear in the month of July, building a 19 game lead in the NL. I'm now up to August 13 and the Giants are 16 games ahead of the second place Brooklyn Dodgers. The Giants are well on their way to a 100+ win season. Willie Mays has been crushing the ball all season and now sits atop the home run race with 40. Eddie Mathews is close behind with 36. In the AL Mickey Mantle has 30 home runs to lead the pack.

The NL race is clearly over, but the AL is still really close with New York and Cleveland trading time at the top. Right now it's the Yankees in the lead by 2 games. Boston has faded some, but could get back in the race with a hot stretch.

One of the big surprises so far in the 55 season is how well Sandy Koufax is doing. Sandy may be on his way to a Rookie of the Year award and may even challenge for a Cy Young. Don Drysdale actually made his debut, though briefly, in 1954. Don somehow ended up on the Cubs to start his career. Drysdale has been in the Cubs starting rotation for all of the 55 season. He's been up and down performance wise. The Cubs are not a good team at this point, so I'm actually impressed with Drysdale's numbers.