Vegas A's Stadium

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

There are Premier League teams with stadiums that hold 12-15K. Why can't an MLB team have one in the 30's?

Because the lack of the revenue stream will affect their ability to compete. Because the other teams in the league will feel that it looks tacky, and wonder why they are playing for a share of a tiny gate when they could be getting double that in, say, Jacksonville.

Because MLB does not have promotion/relegation, and thus they have control over their franchises in ways the EPL does not. (And promoted EPL teams are mandated to upgrade their grounds to a certain level, and most of the tiny-grounds teams get sent right back down to the Championship. It isn't only Leicester City's fans who want that big, shiny. money-maker of a stadium back up top, trust me. Lots of rooting in lots of board rooms. Imagine if Newcastle ever faced the drop…there would be panic stations as accountants around the League worried about losing that St. James's Park revenue.)

[Syd Thrift]

I mean, teams that get relegated also get the big parachute payment that prevents them, hopefully, from completely cratering once they get sent down, which has in some cases created a bit of a shuttle situation where there are like 15 or so clubs who are not competitive at the top of the Premiership but can go from mid-table to the relegation zone to promotion in the Championship (Fulham!). I guess there are still some teams who jumped into the EPL and then totally died (Blackpool springs to mind, the Wednesday... wasn't there also just a team that was in the EPL in the first few seasons in the 90s who just got knocked all the way out of League Two, which confusingly to Americans is the 4th level of the league structure?).

But yeah, there's the above and there's the related territorial rights issue, which is also by the way one of the things that's made the A's situation so hard: IIRC they didn't really ever have good and proper territorial rights and IIRC they signed them away to the Giants in the late 80s. In the English league system, which, granted, is also spread out over an entire country about the size of Washington state while MLB covers, of course, the entire USA, you can basically start a team wherever and whenever you want. Over the years things have become very saturated, of course; for instance there are, what, 7 London teams in the Premiership and the Championship, I think, with all of those having been around since the early 20th century at the youngest, but that comes with that freedom.

In the US, if you wanted to start a new baseball team in Los Angeles, you'd have to get permission from Major League Baseball, and by "permission" I mean they'd have to vote on expansion. There's no route to starting a minor league team on your own: nowadays you would need a major league team to decide that you would make a good affiliate. And even if the league decided that sure, expanding to a 3rd team in LA is a good idea, you would have to pay the Dodgers and Angels for the privilege of playing there. There are a few independent leagues out there but they are low quality and there is no pathway, not even the very theoretical "do it in FM as a big old LP" style, to turn that team into a MLB club.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

an entire country about the size of Washington state

Lol, Blighty wishes they were Washington-sized! Barely 3/4 of it.

Evergreen State: 172,5xx sq. Km
Perfidious Albion: 130,3xx sq Km

Best comp is Alabama at 131,4xx sq Km.

(My favorite "the English have no concept of large distances" anecdotes are about the singer Ellie Goulding, who comes from Hereford [as in the cows]. She tends to talk about Hereford as though it's the back of beyond, whereas it's only about 150 miles from London. You could leave after breakfast and be in London for lunch, traffic permitting.)

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Lol, Blighty wishes they were Washington-sized! Barely 3/4 of it.

Evergreen State: 172,5xx sq. Km
Perfidious Albion: 130,3xx sq Km

Best comp is Alabama at 131,4xx sq Km.

(My favorite "the English have no concept of large distances" anecdotes are about the singer Ellie Goulding, who comes from Hereford [as in the cows]. She tends to talk about Hereford as though it's the back of beyond, whereas it's only about 150 miles from London. You could leave after breakfast and be in London for lunch, traffic permitting.)

I lived in southern England (East Anglia) for several years. I could drive from London to Edinburgh in eight hours, about the same distance from San Diego to San Francisco.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Lol, Blighty wishes they were Washington-sized! Barely 3/4 of it.

Evergreen State: 172,5xx sq. Km
Perfidious Albion: 130,3xx sq Km

Best comp is Alabama at 131,4xx sq Km.

(My favorite "the English have no concept of large distances" anecdotes are about the singer Ellie Goulding, who comes from Hereford [as in the cows]. She tends to talk about Hereford as though it's the back of beyond, whereas it's only about 150 miles from London. You could leave after breakfast and be in London for lunch, traffic permitting.)

I think it’s England + Scotland that’s Washington sized? I just remembered this because I’m from Washington and wanted a personal comp once - I think Great Britain is about Washington sized whereas the entire British Isles are approximately Oregon sized.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I think it’s England + Scotland that’s Washington sized? I just remembered this because I’m from Washington and wanted a personal comp once - I think Great Britain is about Washington sized whereas the entire British Isles are approximately Oregon sized.

This meme.

[Syd Thrift]

I mean, things you see are more accessible than square mileage or square kilometers. If it helps, I looked up the square MILEAGE of Great Britain and then Washington to make that comparison.

[pilight]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

(My favorite "the English have no concept of large distances" anecdotes are about the singer Ellie Goulding, who comes from Hereford [as in the cows]. She tends to talk about Hereford as though it's the back of beyond, whereas it's only about 150 miles from London. You could leave after breakfast and be in London for lunch, traffic permitting.)

The old saying is that the English think 100 miles is a long way while Americans think 100 years is a long time.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by AirmenSmith

Sad. I just got married last year at the Tropicana and now it will be torn down

Just realized that this refers to the Tropicana Hotel in Las Vegas (being sacrificed for the new stadium) and not Tropicana Field in St. Pete FLA.

That makes more sense. I didn't think there would be too much nostalgia for that other Trop.

[Cobra Mgr]

Oakland offers to extend A's lease

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

The golden knights draw well and that is for hockey, the fourth most popular sport in the us. If the a’s make an attempt to be competitive I think attendance will be good if not sold out. Of course they are not competitive now if the a’s are pulling vegases leg that would be unfortunate.

That's a big if. Right now that new stadium would seat three times the number of fans they'll get.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Oakland offers to extend A's lease

Not as a long-term solution, just covering the gap until 2028, which is the projected date for the Las Vegas stadium.

Which is ridiculous. Both of the New York stadia were built during 2008 and opened in 2009. I can't say I liked seeing The Monster looming over the LF fence in Big Shea, its growth condemning my baby to her death, but it didn't take an entire Olympiad to build. (I don't think it took all of 2008.) What, do they have to exhume the corpses that the Trop's owners hid in the foundation?

"If you win, this town will love you. If you lose, they will take you out in the desert, shoot you and bury you. I'm serious; we get a good rain and an entire union springs up out there." —introductory dinner for new Las Vegas Stars manager Pat Kelly, 1990

[Syd Thrift]

Both New York stadia were funded already (also new Yankee Stadium has all the charm of an airplane hangar but that's besides the point). I doubt whatever they put up in Vegas will take 5 years to build.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Both New York stadia were funded already (also new Yankee Stadium has all the charm of an airplane hangar but that's besides the point). I doubt whatever they put up in Vegas will take 5 years to build.

At the rate they are getting it financed..............?

As long as the A's are playing in Oakland, the chances they stay there permanently remains alive. If the A's make someone else a temporary home then we will know how determined they are to make Vegas hoime.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

At the rate they are getting it financed..............?

As long as the A's are playing in Oakland, the chances they stay there permanently remains alive. If the A's make someone else a temporary home then we will know how determined they are to make Vegas hoime.

I was responding to the guy who was being all incredulous about how New Yankee Airplane Hangar went up in less than a year. Sure, yeah, they're taking forever to finance it because nobody actually wants a trash team like the A's in their city and the bloom of spending billions of dollars to attract a sports franchise is clearly off the rose in this country now (I guess the Wizards managed to extort Washington DC out of some money although even at that it kind of looks like their attempt to move to Alexandra, VA fell through and this was a fallback). Once they get it financed, however long that might take, it's not going to take 5 years to build is all I was saying.

And yeah the fact that they're shouting for new stadium money but not getting it means they could get it in 5 years... or they could get it in never. They could quietly sell to someone who actually cares about baseball, negotiate some kind of renovations to the o.co (which, I guess to be completely fair, is an awful stadium for baseball, having earned the nickname "The Mausoleum" decades ago - maybe they can make it better now that it's destined to be baseball-only), and stay put. Or else, well, this is the vagabond team, the Sacramento Kings of MLB, and the market they're in might not support 2 teams all that well, so who knows?

[Antonin]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

At the rate they are getting it financed..............?

As long as the A's are playing in Oakland, the chances they stay there permanently remains alive. If the A's make someone else a temporary home then we will know how determined they are to make Vegas hoime.

I don't follow the goings on of other teams, so it was a surprise to me to see how few people are attending the A's-Guardians series this weekend. Everybody here in Cleveland is happy that the season has finally begun, but it's sad to see the people in Oakland on the verge of losing their team. I know our new manager played there, so it has been an emotional time for him.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I was responding to the guy who was being all incredulous about how New Yankee Airplane Hangar went up in less than a year. Sure, yeah, they're taking forever to finance it because nobody actually wants a trash team like the A's in their city and the bloom of spending billions of dollars to attract a sports franchise is clearly off the rose in this country now (I guess the Wizards managed to extort Washington DC out of some money although even at that it kind of looks like their attempt to move to Alexandra, VA fell through and this was a fallback). Once they get it financed, however long that might take, it's not going to take 5 years to build is all I was saying.

And yeah the fact that they're shouting for new stadium money but not getting it means they could get it in 5 years... or they could get it in never. They could quietly sell to someone who actually cares about baseball, negotiate some kind of renovations to the o.co (which, I guess to be completely fair, is an awful stadium for baseball, having earned the nickname "The Mausoleum" decades ago - maybe they can make it better now that it's destined to be baseball-only), and stay put. Or else, well, this is the vagabond team, the Sacramento Kings of MLB, and the market they're in might not support 2 teams all that well, so who knows?

Even though I quoted your post, I wasn't rebutting anything you said. My opening statement was just to reflect that a new building in 5 years is sounding more and more optimistic.

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

You don't need to draw 40,000 every game to make more money off of a 40,000 capacity stadium than off a 33,000 capacity. The unsold seats are a once-off construction cost, but the seats that only sell for high-demand games (Yankees, promotions, holidays, when you have a good team) keep bringing in the cash.

The only true detriment to capacity is when the team is so poor that the acres and acres of vacant seats depress morale and civic interest. And if the Athletics go back to drawing 5000/game once the lookie-loos have had a look, it won't matter so much that there are "only" 28,000 vacancies rather than 35,000, IMO.

(Big Shea: 55,007. Glorious.)

And you're so right about the big games raking in the cash. An extreme example - not even requiring seats - would be my sons and I purchasing standing room tickets for the 2022 World Series in Philly. We are not wealthy. Pure middle class. But huge Phils fans. So we ponied up $1100 each for SRO. [This is the mentality that ownership counts on, of course...]. The Fightin's hit five home runs; the people with seats were mostly on their feet the whole game anyway; we walked all over the stadium for different views. Best $1100 I ever spent. Of course, the Oakland/Sacramento/Vegas A's are unlikely to sniff the postseason, but in a wild magical place they will put fannies in seats and luxury boxes, and a few die-hard standees.

[Amazin69]

Forget spending the next three years in the shadow of Mt. Davis:

A's announce they will play 2025-2027 in Sacramento, at the River Cats' stadium. (Capacity 25,000)

Congratulations, John Fisher! You're an embarrassment to us all!

[Cobra Mgr]

I don't think any of us take share in his embarrassment. I just wish I could be as wealthy as these fools & still never worry about a bill.