I just find it hard to believe

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Cactusguy21

That said, the bars being indented makes them impossible to read.

lol this is insane

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack

I just find it hard to believe that white boys can play that funky music

I'm finding it hard to believe we're in heaven

[snepp]

I don't mind the indented bars at all after a week of my brain re-wiring itself after so many years of the same visual. Thought I'd hate them, but I don't.

What I am still having a problem with is the lack of matching indents where the vsL and vsR splits are displayed. I still find myself misidentifying them at a glance.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by snepp

I don't mind the indented bars at all after a week of my brain re-wiring itself after so many years of the same visual. Thought I'd hate them, but I don't.

What I am still having a problem with is the lack of matching indents where the vsL and vsR splits are displayed. I still find myself misidentifying them at a glance.

I place my cursor over the numbers on the two bars I'm trying to ignore. Maybe that won't help you, but it works for me.

[snepp]

Originally Posted by Sweed

I place my cursor over the numbers on the two bars I'm trying to ignore. Maybe that won't help you, but it works for me.

If I close one eye and hold my index finger out at a full arm's length it's the perfect size to cover those two.

[reflections]

Acknowledge the indent.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

lol this is insane

While perhaps a shade over-blown, it's not insane at all.

It is helpful to realize that the human beings who walk the planet interact with visual cues in different ways. When someone says a screen is disorienting to them, and you do not agree, they are not insane. Instead, they are physically different from you. That, at least for them, this is a true statement.

The indentation of nested ratings is a relatively bad design practice that "works" but should be avoided if you can--which OOTP could. We've talked about this in other forums for some time. I am also one for whom such practices are disorienting. I wish the screen designers would do a better job. Alas, it apparently is what it is--though they did create a setting to stop showing BABIP in a way that means you can remove your ability to see all the ratings in order to go to a screen design that is less off-putting.

That said, I'm glad that you are having a good experience.

[ChrisJNelson]

The bar indention is great. It's obviously intuitive. People here are nuts.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I'm finding it hard to believe we're in heaven

Came here to say this.


YOU BASTARD!

[Guthrien]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

lol this is insane

Or.. Or.. is it poetry? There are a few wannabe William Faulkner's on this board and I like it. If we were all Halo players it'd be hate crimes, here, you get called a jackass with a literary metaphors.

[BRyMcBourbon]

Chris here makes a good point

Originally Posted by ChrisJNelson

The bar indention is great. It's obviously intuitive. People here are nuts.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by RonCo

While perhaps a shade over-blown, it's not insane at all.

No.

"I find the indentations a bit harder to read": solid take. A take I disagree with, but a solid take.

"I like it the old way better": solid take. I also disagree but hey, we can disagree on stuff.

"The indentations make the player page unreadable": insane hyperbole.

It's not "a shade overblown", it's so far out there that a reasonable person can no longer take this seriously.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

No.

"I find the indentations a bit harder to read": solid take. A take I disagree with, but a solid take.

"I like it the old way better": solid take. I also disagree but hey, we can disagree on stuff.

"The indentations make the player page unreadable": insane hyperbole.

It's not "a shade overblown", it's so far out there that a reasonable person can no longer take this seriously.

I love ya like an OOTP brother, Syd. We've both been around long enough to have seen some moments. The fact that he went too hard does not negate the point--which is that some people find this design hard to absorb. This point has been seconded in this very thread, and by a few others in the beta community. To be honest, when I open v25, it's generally with a tiny sense of dread because I dislike looking at it.

I'm gong to continue, because I have massive skin in the game, but I don't think that's good for OOTP.

Reasonable people can sometimes see through the bluster to identify the truth. And in this case the truth is that the OP is not alone in his angst, and that it does not really have to be that way forever. I suspect and hope the devs will work on the layout again when the other stuff dies down. This is what they do.

That said, I'm happy you and others enjoy the layout. Good for you,

[jcard]

It does not make the screen unreadable. It is an illogical design choice. Not mutually exclusive.

If this set of information had been the initial content to display, I cannot think the current format would have been chosen. Whether indenting is the best or a necessary or a sufficient ad hoc remedy itself is equivalent to choosing which whether to equip either or both off-road tires or a turbocharger to your Miata for the off-road rally.

[Pelican]

My take on this reminds me of criminal law class in law school. The professor wanted to demonstrate how eyewitness identification is inherently unreliable. So he had a guy, unknown to us, interrupt the class, walk over, whisper to the professor, walk out. At the end of class, he asked us each to describe the guy. The descriptions were all over the place. Me? I asked "what guy?" So, yeah, I don't mean to sidetrack the Great Debate on these bars, but honestly I didn't really notice any change. I don't mean to support either side. I'm apparently clueless. Maybe it's subliminal. Dunno, I can still play the game okay. Now, that everybody is up in arms, I wish I had an opinion, but I don't. Which I imagine will infuriate both sides.

[HonusWagner]

Originally Posted by RonCo

While perhaps a shade over-blown, it's not insane at all.

It is helpful to realize that the human beings who walk the planet interact with visual cues in different ways. When someone says a screen is disorienting to them, and you do not agree, they are not insane. Instead, they are physically different from you. That, at least for them, this is a true statement.

The indentation of nested ratings is a relatively bad design practice that "works" but should be avoided if you can--which OOTP could. We've talked about this in other forums for some time. I am also one for whom such practices are disorienting. I wish the screen designers would do a better job. Alas, it apparently is what it is--though they did create a setting to stop showing BABIP in a way that means you can remove your ability to see all the ratings in order to go to a screen design that is less off-putting.

That said, I'm glad that you are having a good experience.

Here is another example.

The OP did nothing to suggest he was responding to the claim the screen is disorienting. He specifically referred to the claim that a specific aspect of the screen, if slightly altered, would render information unintelligible, for that was the claim made. Not disorienting (whatever grabbag of arbitrary meanings that offers). Unintelligible. Which is ridiculous. One suspects it was posted to offer a counterstrike, just for the sake of it. But it's disingenuous and so not a counterstrike but something else. And, the post in quotes here is another example. A counterstrike. And a strawman because nobody said anything in the OP about disorientation. So again, a counterstrike on the surface but actually something else. And for some reason it seems to occur with some frequency in this forum. And so yes, it is sort of insane to make such ridiculous statement and claims as though they should be taken at face value.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RonCo

While perhaps a shade over-blown, it's not insane at all.

It is helpful to realize that the human beings who walk the planet interact with visual cues in different ways. When someone says a screen is disorienting to them, and you do not agree, they are not insane. Instead, they are physically different from you. That, at least for them, this is a true statement.

The indentation of nested ratings is a relatively bad design practice that "works" but should be avoided if you can--which OOTP could. We've talked about this in other forums for some time. I am also one for whom such practices are disorienting. I wish the screen designers would do a better job. Alas, it apparently is what it is--though they did create a setting to stop showing BABIP in a way that means you can remove your ability to see all the ratings in order to go to a screen design that is less off-putting.

That said, I'm glad that you are having a good experience.

Originally Posted by RonCo

I love ya like an OOTP brother, Syd. We've both been around long enough to have seen some moments. The fact that he went too hard does not negate the point--which is that some people find this design hard to absorb. This point has been seconded in this very thread, and by a few others in the beta community. To be honest, when I open v25, it's generally with a tiny sense of dread because I dislike looking at it.

I'm gong to continue, because I have massive skin in the game, but I don't think that's good for OOTP.

Reasonable people can sometimes see through the bluster to identify the truth. And in this case the truth is that the OP is not alone in his angst, and that it does not really have to be that way forever. I suspect and hope the devs will work on the layout again when the other stuff dies down. This is what they do.

That said, I'm happy you and others enjoy the layout. Good for you,

Sure, we all have an opinion. Mine is right for me, yours for you. We've had one user that says he has experience in the field that says the indent is a good decision. I'm sure there are designers that think it is not. Apparently whoever did this for OOTP thought it was a good design, I and other users agree.

I'm not 100% sure what you think the solutions should be? I'm reading it as #2 in this list but...?

1. Remove the indent for everyone?

2. A new option would be created to allow everyone to be happy? As the developer did for the order of the bars when the new ratings were removed.

Number 2 is what I've already proposed and would be thrilled to see so everyone could get what they are comfortable with. To do #1 would be throwing away a screen that already exists. Makes more sense to modify it and save it as another option. It could be another checkbox in the many pages of options in the setup screens, above or below the option they just added to reorder the bars. Or they could put a check box on the player card itself, same as one can select how to display the substitution screen while playing out a game.

I don't see this as an either/or issue. I hope the developers agree.

[ChrisJNelson]

This has to be the dumbest ongoing discussion I have ever seen here. People are insane.

[jcard]

Originally Posted by ChrisJNelson

This has to be the dumbest ongoing discussion I have ever seen here. People are insane.

OK, since we’re all apparently sharing today, let me tell you about the dumbest thing I’VE seen here lately:

On his own initiative, some guy on the forum took the time to interject himself into a thread to declare the whole discussion a foolish waste of time, concluding with a blanket dismissal of rationality among the participants. I suppose that you DO have to respect that willingness to serve as his own evidence …

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by jcard

OK, since we’re all apparently sharing today, let me tell you about the dumbest thing I’VE seen here lately:

On his own initiative, some guy on the forum took the time to interject himself into a thread to declare the whole discussion a foolish waste of time, concluding with a blanket dismissal of rationality among the participants. I suppose that you DO have to respect that willingness to serve as his own evidence …

Please tell me that I'm that guy and if so, will it increase my chances of finally meeting Marlo Thomas?