Spritzey DB is not right at the moment

actionjackson · 11-20-2022, 06:12 PM

Not sure I'll be able to fix it either.

It's been like this since before Spritze passed, so it may not be fixable. This sucks.

actionjackson · 11-20-2022, 06:17 PM

The screw up appears to be in the Fielding file. I look at it in spreadsheet form, and it flows really nicely. I look at it in game, and it's quite a mess.

actionjackson · 11-20-2022, 09:54 PM

I'm ready to declare the Spritze DB dead. Dead, or use at your own risk. Understand that if you choose to use it, Jesse Barfield, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Evans, Larry Walker, and other all-time great defensive RF will not have any experience...In RF. None of their RF stats will show up in their RL stats. This will not only weaken them as OF in general, but the no experience in RF thing will not allow them to play there...Period. Sure, you can edit every Spritze RF, but to what end?

I think it has something to do with the difference between how the main DB deals with outfielders, and how Spritze deals with them. The main DB now lists OF defensive stats at each of the OF positions they played for all years all the way back to 1871. The Spritze DB labels all OF as OF from 1871 forward, and uses the FieldingOF file to break them down. Sounds like voodoo to me, and given that it punts RF stats from the DB, I'm wondering what else is going on. RL infield stats look a little bit funky, too. I don't notice ratings being affected by all of this weirdness, except for the RF, who are really punished by it. This goes back a long way, too. I'd just never noticed it before, because I only bring in a couple of guys at a time.

So, for now, I will declare it dead. Maybe some DB Dr. can assist with its revival, but it's not looking good, right now. RIP Spritze DB. You served us really well. Hopefully, eventually the main DB, or MiLB DB will enable us to enjoy the players that Spritze once allowed us to enjoy. I'm sorry I didn't see it sooner, but I've never played exclusively with the Spritze DB.

Shall we have a wake or a funeral? Who's bringing the booze, and other essentials?

reflections · 11-20-2022, 09:57 PM

My favorite DB of all time.

actionjackson · 11-20-2022, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reflections

My favorite DB of all time.

We go back to the Mogul boards, don't we?

It's too bad. I can't declare it totally dead, but understand the risks if you choose to use it. Some gremlins got into the Fielding section of it, at some point, and it went a bit haywire. I think I know why it's happening, but I'm not a DB Dr. I was just trying to keep the legacy going. The gremlins got in there quite a while ago, too. I'll still keep it up on the Google Drive, and provide links to those that want it, but once I finally noticed it, the RF thing kinda sealed the deal for me. If you know a good DB fixer, lemme know, but now that the man himself has gone, I'm not sure any of us can make heads or tails of it. It was an incredible piece of work, by an incredible dude.

Brad K · 11-20-2022, 10:09 PM

How old a version of OOTP does a person need for it to work correctly?

actionjackson · 11-20-2022, 10:33 PM

It's looking like a very old problem to me. I had a look back to OOTP16, with the Spritze 16 DB, and the RF issue was there. Checked it out using Clemente, and Barfield. Not pretty. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the fact that the Spritze DB, and the main DB handled OF stats differently, and now that the main DB has (correctly) created stats for all OF, from 1871 forward, that break down their time, and numbers at each of the three positions, I don't see a way to fix it. Spritze designated every OF as an OF, and broke down playing time in a separate file, that didn't have stats in it. A bit of Spritze voodoo magic, but I'm not sure it'll work anymore. The main DB did that between 1871 and 1953, until recently, but now does separate stats for each of the three positions, for all 151 years. Price of progress, I guess. I think it was doomed once the new DB comes out for OOTP24 anyway. I don't think it's a fight I can win.

For those that used it extensively, did you ever notice the RF issue? I only did a very shallow dive with it, and missed it entirely, until today, so it may be a very long standing issue. I just can't handle trashing great defensive RF like that. Like I said, if we find a DB wizard, maybe there's a chance, but 24 might render it obsolete anyway.

Another possibility is that I always used it in conjunction with the main database. The main DB was for my game, and I brought in Spritze players using the Historical Player Import tool. If somebody can check out a game, where they used Spritze exclusively, that would help us to see if it's just something that happens when you "abuse" it, like that. I don't have a game I can check out to see if that problem exists in a game that is started with the Spritze DB, and stays with the Spritze DB. I can run a quick tester now, and see what happens.

actionjackson · 11-20-2022, 10:44 PM

Yep. Just did a quick tester, starting in 1901 with Spritzie. Nobody is rated at RF. 77 players rated at RF with in test with regular DB. Don't know how I missed this before.

actionjackson · 11-20-2022, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Yep. Just did a quick tester, starting in 1901 with Spritzie. Nobody is rated at RF. 77 players rated at RF with in test with regular DB. Don't know how I missed this before.

943 players in Spritze - 0 players rated at RF
371 players in Regular - 77 players rated at RF

Brad K · 11-21-2022, 01:25 AM

It would make sense that at some point the game handled the DB the same way Spritze did. If it didn't there would be no reason for him to make it as he did. It seems to me its likely that at some point the Spritze DB was compatible but not with newer versions of the game.

sprague · 11-21-2022, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

How old a version of OOTP does a person need for it to work correctly?

I think you have to go back to ootp 19 or 20 for it to work correctly.

If I recall even in 21 you could get the players to import properly, but they would not allow a draft, even with the box checked the players always came in as free agents, and you had to run a free agent draft that day if you wanted a draft.
Beyond 21 i stopped trying.

reflections · 11-22-2022, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

We go back to the Mogul boards, don't we?

It's too bad. I can't declare it totally dead, but understand the risks if you choose to use it. Some gremlins got into the Fielding section of it, at some point, and it went a bit haywire. I think I know why it's happening, but I'm not a DB Dr. I was just trying to keep the legacy going. The gremlins got in there quite a while ago, too. I'll still keep it up on the Google Drive, and provide links to those that want it, but once I finally noticed it, the RF thing kinda sealed the deal for me. If you know a good DB fixer, lemme know, but now that the man himself has gone, I'm not sure any of us can make heads or tails of it. It was an incredible piece of work, by an incredible dude.

Holy Smokes. I think we do. I think you are the one who mentioned for me to try OOTP demo, years ago.

actionjackson · 11-26-2022, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reflections

Holy Smokes. I think we do. I think you are the one who mentioned for me to try OOTP demo, years ago.

Can't remember if we were trying to figure out a way to get better stats output, or not, or maybe that was someone else that I'm thinking of. I'd tried OOTP before, but always ended up overwhelmed in a puddle, trying to figure it out. This time I stuck with it, through an entire development cycle, basically experimenting with settings, until I had the ones that worked for me. Once I got those, it was bye-bye Mogul. That forum seems quite dead these days. Sad, because it was a lot of fun, back in its heyday.

I'm concerned about Clay's health for sure, although that seems to have been getting better, as of a blog post four years ago. I remember his wife being funny as hell, too, in interactions I had with her. I think they're good peeps, and I wish them well, but OOTP is where I get my baseball sim fix these days. A lot of us over here, now. HoustonGM, ohms_law, Jeffy25, and others I'm not remembering at the moment. Nice to see them around, as well as yourself.

reflections · 11-27-2022, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Can't remember if we were trying to figure out a way to get better stats output, or not, or maybe that was someone else that I'm thinking of. I'd tried OOTP before, but always ended up overwhelmed in a puddle, trying to figure it out. This time I stuck with it, through an entire development cycle, basically experimenting with settings, until I had the ones that worked for me. Once I got those, it was bye-bye Mogul. That forum seems quite dead these days. Sad, because it was a lot of fun, back in its heyday.

I'm concerned about Clay's health for sure, although that seems to have been getting better, as of a blog post four years ago. I remember his wife being funny as hell, too, in interactions I had with her. I think they're good peeps, and I wish them well, but OOTP is where I get my baseball sim fix these days. A lot of us over here, now. HoustonGM, ohms_law, Jeffy25, and others I'm not remembering at the moment. Nice to see them around, as well as yourself.

I was in on the conversation about getting better stats from Mogul. I think I left after a few years and went to PureSim, but I would always download OOTP demos. But I've been here for probably at least the past 7-8 years.
It's interesting to see the people who have been around for a long time and through other games.
Definitely sad to see this DB no longer usable. While I'm loving the full minor league one that comes with the game, the exclusion of *** players keeps me from having a DB that I can use without having to make additions.

actionjackson · 11-27-2022, 10:11 PM

I s'pose if the player you're trying to import never played a stitch of RF, it'd be OK, but if that's not functioning properly, what else is broken?

BaseballReplayJournal · 03-31-2024, 06:24 PM

Hey actionjackson — has anybody tried recompiling a version of the Spritze database?

I'm starting to become interested in diving in a bit deeper.

PM me if you have a chance. I tried writing to you the other day, but your inbox was full.

11-20-2022, 06:12 PM	#1
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Spritzey DB is not right at the moment Not sure I'll be able to fix it either. It's been like this since before Spritze passed, so it may not be fixable. This sucks.

11-20-2022, 10:09 PM	#6
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,272	How old a version of OOTP does a person need for it to work correctly? __________________ Pirates Play Moneyball 1951 to 2008 46,000 views and counting!... Wow, up to 47,000, thank you. Wow, I hadn't checked for weeks. Oct 9 2024 its 79,561. Why do people use different players, different lineups, different strategy, development, talent change randomness, and the development lab, but judge the game on whether it produces historical statistics?

11-21-2022, 01:25 AM	#10
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 6,272	It would make sense that at some point the game handled the DB the same way Spritze did. If it didn't there would be no reason for him to make it as he did. It seems to me its likely that at some point the Spritze DB was compatible but not with newer versions of the game. __________________ Pirates Play Moneyball 1951 to 2008 46,000 views and counting!... Wow, up to 47,000, thank you. Wow, I hadn't checked for weeks. Oct 9 2024 its 79,561. Why do people use different players, different lineups, different strategy, development, talent change randomness, and the development lab, but judge the game on whether it produces historical statistics?

03-31-2024, 06:24 PM	#16
BaseballReplayJournal Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2023 Location: Bristow, VA Posts: 25	Hey actionjackson — has anybody tried recompiling a version of the Spritze database? I'm starting to become interested in diving in a bit deeper. PM me if you have a chance. I tried writing to you the other day, but your inbox was full. __________________ My Projects: Baseball Replay Journal: Blog / YouTube Football Manager Projects: Blog / YouTube Action Football Sundays: Blog / YouTube

11-20-2022, 06:17 PM	#2
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	The screw up appears to be in the Fielding file. I look at it in spreadsheet form, and it flows really nicely. I look at it in game, and it's quite a mess.

11-20-2022, 09:54 PM	#3
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	I'm ready to declare the Spritze DB dead. Dead, or use at your own risk. Understand that if you choose to use it, Jesse Barfield, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Evans, Larry Walker, and other all-time great defensive RF will not have any experience...In RF. None of their RF stats will show up in their RL stats. This will not only weaken them as OF in general, but the no experience in RF thing will not allow them to play there...Period. Sure, you can edit every Spritze RF, but to what end? I think it has something to do with the difference between how the main DB deals with outfielders, and how Spritze deals with them. The main DB now lists OF defensive stats at each of the OF positions they played for all years all the way back to 1871. The Spritze DB labels all OF as OF from 1871 forward, and uses the FieldingOF file to break them down. Sounds like voodoo to me, and given that it punts RF stats from the DB, I'm wondering what else is going on. RL infield stats look a little bit funky, too. I don't notice ratings being affected by all of this weirdness, except for the RF, who are really punished by it. This goes back a long way, too. I'd just never noticed it before, because I only bring in a couple of guys at a time. So, for now, I will declare it dead. Maybe some DB Dr. can assist with its revival, but it's not looking good, right now. RIP Spritze DB. You served us really well. Hopefully, eventually the main DB, or MiLB DB will enable us to enjoy the players that Spritze once allowed us to enjoy. I'm sorry I didn't see it sooner, but I've never played exclusively with the Spritze DB. Shall we have a wake or a funeral? Who's bringing the booze, and other essentials?

11-20-2022, 09:57 PM	#4
reflections Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Tumwater, Washington Posts: 174	My favorite DB of all time.

11-20-2022, 10:33 PM	#7
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	It's looking like a very old problem to me. I had a look back to OOTP16, with the Spritze 16 DB, and the RF issue was there. Checked it out using Clemente, and Barfield. Not pretty. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the fact that the Spritze DB, and the main DB handled OF stats differently, and now that the main DB has (correctly) created stats for all OF, from 1871 forward, that break down their time, and numbers at each of the three positions, I don't see a way to fix it. Spritze designated every OF as an OF, and broke down playing time in a separate file, that didn't have stats in it. A bit of Spritze voodoo magic, but I'm not sure it'll work anymore. The main DB did that between 1871 and 1953, until recently, but now does separate stats for each of the three positions, for all 151 years. Price of progress, I guess. I think it was doomed once the new DB comes out for OOTP24 anyway. I don't think it's a fight I can win. For those that used it extensively, did you ever notice the RF issue? I only did a very shallow dive with it, and missed it entirely, until today, so it may be a very long standing issue. I just can't handle trashing great defensive RF like that. Like I said, if we find a DB wizard, maybe there's a chance, but 24 might render it obsolete anyway. Another possibility is that I always used it in conjunction with the main database. The main DB was for my game, and I brought in Spritze players using the Historical Player Import tool. If somebody can check out a game, where they used Spritze exclusively, that would help us to see if it's just something that happens when you "abuse" it, like that. I don't have a game I can check out to see if that problem exists in a game that is started with the Spritze DB, and stays with the Spritze DB. I can run a quick tester now, and see what happens.

11-20-2022, 10:44 PM	#8
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	Yep. Just did a quick tester, starting in 1901 with Spritzie. Nobody is rated at RF. 77 players rated at RF with in test with regular DB. Don't know how I missed this before.

11-27-2022, 10:11 PM	#15
actionjackson Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 6,163	I s'pose if the player you're trying to import never played a stitch of RF, it'd be OK, but if that's not functioning properly, what else is broken?